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  #1  
Old 2017-03-18, 4:34pm
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Iwantonetoo Iwantonetoo is offline
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Default Can you hook up multiple torches (12) to natural gas line?

I teach in a studio with 14 torches(all Minors), but I haven't ever had more than 12 students at a time.

Currently they're "plumbed" (for lack of a better word) 4 torches to a tank. Propane, and tanked Oxygen.

Out of the blue they ordered 2 OxyCons from ABR. Both EX-20's which got me to thinking about how to best utilize them and my thoughts have snowballed.

Someone at ABR told her each machine can produce enough for 2 minors.If I take the 4 torches from one/same tank of Oxygen can I use a Y connector and use both machines into the one line and have enough for 4 Minors?

She asked me how mine are hooked up and when I told her I'm on Natural gas she said "Can we do that here too?". My first thought is that we can't get enough pressure for multiple torches.

Any ideas? you're all so smart here. I'm not so sure this even makes sense outside of my head.

Thank you in advance!
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  #2  
Old 2017-04-13, 8:44am
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where I teach - it is a commercial area so the gas pressure is higher than residential. What I found was they use a very large hose about 2 inches wide to run the natural gas to all the torches and then connected the red hoses to the larger hose.

My issue is we run 6 torches off one tank of oxygen....I would like to split that into 3 per tank but due to city budget issues that may not be an option.

I am definitely not giving advice - just my experience.
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  #3  
Old 2017-04-18, 11:53am
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I would not run more than 1 torch on EX-20 even if they are minors. One EX-20 would be perfect for 1 minor and run it at max. I run my torch, a barracuda on 3 EX-20's chained together. I still wish I had more O2.
As for natural gas, they sell a booster so you can use it in a commercial environment.
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Old 2017-04-18, 9:24pm
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Thank you for the input!!
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Old 2017-04-19, 5:01am
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Jtv studio where we meet has 16 torches manifolded to NG. It needs a booster - we all gripe about lack of oomph. Torches are mega minors, also manifolded tanked oxy.
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  #6  
Old 2017-04-22, 3:47pm
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The issue with using NG, at household pressures (1/3 PSI), is the torch is starved for fuel. The torch will still work, but can not go beyond what fuel is available. Ran a Scorpion at 1/3 PSI and it worked well but can only do so much.

Then added a booster and now at 5 PSI it works as it should. If purchasing a booster, buy one that has enough capacity to fuel the number of needed torches.
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  #7  
Old 2017-04-22, 5:15pm
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Alaska - may I ask where you got your booster? I'm going to natural gas this summer and have a Scorpion but may sell it and buy a Cricket since I use the inner fire only about 95% of the time.

I was told NG household pressure was 2 psi, maybe it varies by location?
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  #8  
Old 2017-04-24, 9:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth Beads View Post
Alaska - may I ask where you got your booster? I'm going to natural gas this summer and have a Scorpion but may sell it and buy a Cricket since I use the inner fire only about 95% of the time.

I was told NG household pressure was 2 psi, maybe it varies by location?
It does vary by location, and even from house to house. You can sometimes have the company adjust it if you need to. I think 2psi should be fine for Scorpion or Cricket - from GTT's website, "It requires as low as psi to 5 psi of natural gas or propane with a low consumption rate of 1.5 LPM (3 CFH) at the maximum flame size."
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Old 2017-04-24, 1:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusty View Post
It does vary by location, and even from house to house. You can sometimes have the company adjust it if you need to. I think 2psi should be fine for Scorpion or Cricket - from GTT's website, "It requires as low as psi to 5 psi of natural gas or propane with a low consumption rate of 1.5 LPM (3 CFH) at the maximum flame size."
While I think that may work for one torch, household pressure is not ideal for the manifolded setup that the OP asks about. I realize you were responding to Elizabeth, just wanted to weigh in again about how crappy 16 torches on household pressure run. I can fall asleep waiting for ivory to melt.
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Old 2017-04-24, 5:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echeveria View Post
While I think that may work for one torch, household pressure is not ideal for the manifolded setup that the OP asks about. I realize you were responding to Elizabeth, just wanted to weigh in again about how crappy 16 torches on household pressure run. I can fall asleep waiting for ivory to melt.

It seems like if it works for 1 torch (none of this applies, otherwise), then the pressure is high enough, flow is the problem, and a bigger pipe could fix the flow problem without a booster. I'm not sure that a booster would fix that problem, either, since, the booster's job is to increase pressure, and I don't know if it does anything with flow. The cheapest fix/first thing to try would be having the gas company turn up the pressure (sometimes they will), and next would be running bigger pipes/hoses inside the studio (not the ones to it, but inside).

Last edited by dusty; 2017-04-24 at 5:24pm.
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  #11  
Old 2017-04-24, 5:55pm
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Could be, Dusty. It is not my studio though, just one that allows our ISGB chapter to use theirs, so I can't really experiment with it. When we turn on the gas, it takes about 10 minutes before the torches at the far end of the manifold can be lit.

And, even if we are running only one torch, the flame still seems weak to me.
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Old 2017-04-27, 4:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth Beads View Post
Alaska - may I ask where you got your booster? I'm going to natural gas this summer and have a Scorpion but may sell it and buy a Cricket since I use the inner fire only about 95% of the time.

I was told NG household pressure was 2 psi, maybe it varies by location?
Give this link a try:

(http://gas-tec.com/torchboosters.html)

Gas Tec make a number of NG boosters. They are not inexpensive. They may have some refurbished units available for less cost. Phone and ask.

Check the regulator on your NG meter for pressure. It is often stated in WC or water column and posted on the end cap on some systems. Then use the net for a conversion of WC to PSI. If the WC is 6.5 - 7.5 then the PSI ranges from .23 to .27 PSI.

NG firms often will not increase the pressure as it is an increased liability. The more pressure the more volume of gas should a leak occur. A commercial factory, etc often has a greater WC than a home. But policies vary from location to location.

Also if pressure is moved up, one has to consider the replacement of all appliance gas regulators that had inputs in the .2 PSI range.

One very general test would be to test the torch with propane. Run at 5 PSI and then reduce to .2 - .5 PSI. Readjust oxygen for the proper flame at the various fuel pressures.
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  #13  
Old 2017-04-28, 9:24am
dusty dusty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska View Post
Give this link a try:

(http://gas-tec.com/torchboosters.html)

Gas Tec make a number of NG boosters. They are not inexpensive. They may have some refurbished units available for less cost. Phone and ask.

Check the regulator on your NG meter for pressure. It is often stated in WC or water column and posted on the end cap on some systems. Then use the net for a conversion of WC to PSI. If the WC is 6.5 - 7.5 then the PSI ranges from .23 to .27 PSI.

NG firms often will not increase the pressure as it is an increased liability. The more pressure the more volume of gas should a leak occur. A commercial factory, etc often has a greater WC than a home. But policies vary from location to location.

Also if pressure is moved up, one has to consider the replacement of all appliance gas regulators that had inputs in the .2 PSI range.

One very general test would be to test the torch with propane. Run at 5 PSI and then reduce to .2 - .5 PSI. Readjust oxygen for the proper flame at the various fuel pressures.
I don't know how accurate testing with propane will be, because propane has more heat per CF than natural gas has.

from http://www.propane101.com/propanevsnaturalgas.htm :
Quote:
  • 100,000 BTU/hr furnace will use about 97 cubic feet of natural gas (100,000 1,030 = 97.1) in one hour
  • 100,000 BTU/hr furnace will use about 40 cubic feet of propane (100,000 2516 = 39.7) in one hour
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  #14  
Old 2017-05-16, 9:01am
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I can't thank you all enough for this info! I love the LE community!
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  #15  
Old 2018-03-31, 10:48am
Chalem Chalem is offline
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A bit techy for me. Still have a lot to learn...Ill stik to one at a time...
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