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Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

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  #1  
Old 2015-01-21, 8:49am
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bepnewt bepnewt is offline
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Default Testing my Natural Gas line

I have a Bravo that I run off of an OxyCon and Propane for the inner and a K-Tank and Propane for the outer. I had a new water heater installed last year and took the opportunity to have the plumber run a hookup for my torch.

He ran the hookup with proper cutoffs. I haven't called the gas company or done any research on whether there will be enough pressure / flow to run the Bravo but would like to test it.

I plan on hooking the inner fire to the Natural Gas line with the OxyCon for a test fire. Are there any safety concerns I need to know about while checking if the NG is going to work as is? I'll have the proper hoses, but won't have a flashback arrestor or flame check on the gas.

Thanks,
-BEP
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Lifelong glass lover, now getting to work with it. Using a Bravo on an M20 & Natural Gas ( inner ), Tanked O2 & Propane ( outer ).
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  #2  
Old 2015-01-21, 2:05pm
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Most home NG pressures are in the range of 1/4 to 1/3 PSI. However, some instant on water heaters take more pressure with the gas company allowing up to perhaps 2 PSI.

One can look at the gas regulator and the pressure range will be stated in WC. Use the web to convert that number to PSI.

The advantage is that NG is so very clean burning. The negative part is that the flame characteristics will look different with NG when compared to propane. Just something to get used to.

The other item is that the amount of fuel delivered to the torch is limited by the NG pressure. One way around this is to use a NG compressor that ups the pressure from 1/4 PSI to 25 PSI. However, they are costly. Also check the torch manual or contact the manufacture for suggestions for using NG.

For safety, a shut off valve at the termination of the black pipe near the torch is a plus. From there one can run a hose to the torch. Some also install a second valve where the line connects to the main supply line. Usually at the T connection.
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  #3  
Old 2015-01-22, 7:13am
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if you have a nortel torch, or a national torch, then you can use normal household pressure.....some places will let you boost your home pressure up to 2 psi, but you need to have a mechanical contractor work with the gas company to do that so it is not free.....i advise not to buy a system to boost your gas pressure, as it is far cheaper to buy a torch that will work with the lower pressure like a minor, or a red max.....even with low pressure natural gas, the ultimate limit to the torch's heating power is the oxygen supply....
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  #4  
Old 2015-01-22, 8:08am
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Thanks, folks. Good info, for sure.

If anyone has an answer to my question about safety concerns on testing it, please let me know.

-BEP
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Brian E. Parker aka BEPNewt
Lifelong glass lover, now getting to work with it. Using a Bravo on an M20 & Natural Gas ( inner ), Tanked O2 & Propane ( outer ).
Grew up near
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  #5  
Old 2015-02-02, 1:34am
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I guess I am unclear on what your are trying to test.

Standard leak testing with a very light soap solution is a given at all joints and junctions.

The pressure needs of the torches you use are going to be best determined by asking the manufacturer what the lowest pressure they recommend is.

I wonder why you would go to the trouble of installing an HHNG line to your work bench if you already have propane available unless your propane is from a tank that you are bringing into the house which is a big safety no no.

The things to consider that spring to mind are that there is just not enough pressure normally in a natural gas line to use a check valve (which prevents your oxygen source from feeding backwards into the natural gas lines when the oxygen pressure is more than the natural gas pressure).

And I think that flashback arrestors even have a light weight check valve as well which wont allow very low pressures to work either.

One other thought is the heating power of propane gas compared to natural gas. I think propane has 2 and half times more heat per volume than natural gas.

So the only point of installing natural gas instead of piping your propane into the house is refilling the propane tank and turning it on and off before each torching session.

If I am off base on any thing here, someone please feel free to correct me.


ETA : If it is a problem with propane not being as clean as natural gas there are propane filters available for very little cost.
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Last edited by Speedslug; 2015-02-02 at 1:39am.
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  #6  
Old 2015-02-02, 6:45am
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The reason for NG over propane is there was a NG line 3-4 feet from my bench that I could tap into and I prefer that over having a small BBQ tank in my garage. The plumber was replacing the water heater, so I had him run a new pipe over where I wanted it.

As far as safety, I'm interested in anything I should look for when lighting the torch for the first time. I'll definitely be checking for leaks beforehand. If the NG line isn't sufficient to run my torch, is that a safety issue when lighting it? I would think not with a surface mix, especially since the O2 will not be on when I first light it. Then again, I don't know and would rather ask the experts than go by intuition.

I've read a lot of great articles on here about NG and lampwork, but I haven't read anything about hazards of testing the pressure the first time. I take that to mean there's nothing special to worry about, but I've been wrong before. Just ask my wife.

Thanks for all the input.

-BEP


If anyone wants to read about or discuss propane in the house/garage, here are some good starting places:

Discussions on Propane in the house/garage:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...?t=412&page=13
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=36382

Real life testimony on Propane in the house:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=12477
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Brian E. Parker aka BEPNewt
Lifelong glass lover, now getting to work with it. Using a Bravo on an M20 & Natural Gas ( inner ), Tanked O2 & Propane ( outer ).
Grew up near
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  #7  
Old 2015-02-02, 7:22am
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I do not see any problems with your testing it as it stands.

Since it is a surface mix there won't be any issue of oxygen pressure going back into your the natural gas line.

But I don't think you are going to care for the limited heat you are going to get from the natural gas when you are used to the output of propane.

Do let us know what you think of what you get out of it.


ETA: Even at the lower pressures of the house line, with a surface mix torch you are going to be able to safely burn what you get to the face of your torch and there wont be any issues with the flame front climbing back up the pipe in a flash back.

So yes you should be safe to light it.
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  #8  
Old 2015-02-02, 8:35am
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Thanks, Phill. I'll post an update when it's all complete. I still have some hardware to procure to get the connection completed.

I appreciate you guys taking the time to respond.

-BEP
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Brian E. Parker aka BEPNewt
Lifelong glass lover, now getting to work with it. Using a Bravo on an M20 & Natural Gas ( inner ), Tanked O2 & Propane ( outer ).
Grew up near
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  #9  
Old 2015-02-02, 11:51am
snoopdog6502 snoopdog6502 is offline
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I tapped my gas line myself. Hook it up and fire it up, its no big deal at all.

Its very safe, when you light the torch you will howl with laughter on how underwhelming the gas flame is. Crank the gas WIDE OPEN!

I will say for small detail work the nice clean smooth flame is realy nice. That said it is the oxygen that gives it kick like others have said.
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  #10  
Old 2015-02-02, 10:58pm
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Aye, I have natural gas piped to my GGT Cricket myself.
But I knew when I bought it that it was designed for just the kind of low pressure and lower volume of gas that my home supply lines could give.
It doesn't rage by any one's definition but I only work small and slowly any way so it works for me.

I was thinking that if I had had a larger torch to start with I would never be able to get used to the smaller output of a house hold natural gas line.
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  #11  
Old 2015-02-02, 11:47pm
snoopdog6502 snoopdog6502 is offline
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Gas is sweet and is workable, Nice quiet smooth flame. Real nice if you want to relax and take your time.

I want to try some large boro marbles with natural gas and see if I can get super clear clear.
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