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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2008-03-11, 8:53am
DesignsOnTheHeath DesignsOnTheHeath is offline
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Default MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

I don't know if anyone here is aware, or if it's been posted yet, but Petromont, the company that is the sole North American supplier of MAPP gas is no longer producing MAPP gas and is closing its Canadian operations indefinitely!

I just found out last night when I was looking at the site that delivers fuels in my area. They have a pdf about that and that they have made a new gas called Map-Pro. They say that the new gas burns hotter-good?, or bad??? Hotter would be quicker but I wonder if it will burn the glass...

Here is a link to their pdf:

http://www.worthingtoncylinders.com/...nce_021908.pdf

Worthington is the brand of most of my MAPP cylinders, and they are the ones who are making the new gas. I am going to call my local gas delivery company and see if I can get some specs on the Map-Pro. I was just going to switch from cylinders to a bulk tank but now I'm not sure if I'll need to go with propane or if I might be able to get just a small cylinder of the Map-Pro to try out.

If I get any info on the new gas, I'll post it.
Smiles, Sue
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  #2  
Old 2008-03-11, 9:40am
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MAP-Pro has a higher flame temperature and better combustion intensity than propane, Not MAPP according to worthington site.
No specific info as what the change is, temp etc.
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  #3  
Old 2008-03-11, 11:19am
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Sue,

When you talk to your gas supplier, ask them about bulk propylene. It is a bit hotter than propane and a bunch cheaper than MAPP.

Steve
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  #4  
Old 2008-03-11, 12:54pm
DesignsOnTheHeath DesignsOnTheHeath is offline
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David-Thanks for correcting my mistake

Steve-They don't have propylene In case I can find someone who does, how does that work?

So far, "the guy" told me that they have chemoline, but said that's usually ysed with oxygen and wasn't sure if it can be used without it. He's checking on that and if my hot head torch would even be compatible with that type of torch, I'm thinking it won't be. He is also going to try and get me some info on the Map-Pro. I posted the above post on a couple other boards and someone said that they checked with BernzOMatic and were told that they were the only MAPP gas producer in the world!

I'll post any updates as I get them.
Smiles, Sue
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  #5  
Old 2008-03-11, 3:27pm
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A list of possible alternative fuels for MAPP gas for the Hothead torch can be found here...

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7

Dale
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  #6  
Old 2008-03-11, 5:27pm
DesignsOnTheHeath DesignsOnTheHeath is offline
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That's great information, Dale. It's a relief to know that there are so many options.
Thanks for the link & taking time to put it all in writing for us! Rock on!
Smiles, Sue
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  #7  
Old 2008-03-11, 5:41pm
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I used propylene for a couple years before switching over to natural gas. I had a large refillable tank and another spare tank so it was very easy. I liked it better than the mapp gas ....(but LOVE the natural gas setup!)
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  #8  
Old 2008-03-11, 6:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glasswinder View Post
I used propylene for a couple years before switching over to natural gas. I had a large refillable tank and another spare tank so it was very easy. I liked it better than the mapp gas ....(but LOVE the natural gas setup!)
Exactly.. I love my proplyene!!! And it cost less
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  #9  
Old 2008-03-12, 3:40am
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What kind of tank should propylene be put in? I asked for a brazing fuel (MAPP gas is a brazing fuel), and I don't know which brand they used, but they put it in a propane tank and I found out later that this was illegal. So I want to make sure they put the propylene in the right kind of tank.
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  #10  
Old 2008-03-12, 7:32am
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Any gas distributer should know that information.... Its in their best interest to get it right....

Most tanks are just that, tanks....... If tank has proper valve and the tank (vessel) meets pressure requirements its physical shape is immaterial...

"Some" pressure vessels (tanks) are painted by color codes, BUT not all.... Generally what makes a tank specific for a fuel type is how its labeled...

According to MSDS it has a pressure of 171 psi at 77° f., it seems to have same pressure characteristics of propane and MAPP. It is also is a heavier than air gas (S.P. 1.42) which means it is a pooling gas and has same dangers as propane and MAPP

http://www.vngas.com/pdf/g75.pdf

More information on propylene..

http://www.concoa.com/index.php?page...&gas=propylene

And Propylene tanks use same CGA-510 tank valve connection as most fuel gases (MAPP, Propane, Acetylene).

http://www.concoa.com/index.php?page...ref=10&cga=510

Dale
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Last edited by Dale M.; 2008-03-12 at 7:38am.
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  #11  
Old 2008-03-12, 11:32am
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I found out about that last year and tried bulk propane as a last resort. I like it better than MAPP and it is so much easier and cheaper.
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  #12  
Old 2008-03-12, 7:19pm
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Mandy, this may sound like a dumb question, but is bulk propane a special type of propane? Or does it just mean propane in bulk quantity?
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  #13  
Old 2008-03-12, 7:29pm
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Its referred to as "bulk" because it comes in a #20 (pound) cylinder instead of the #1 hardware store torch cylinders.....

Think BBS propane tank....

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7

Dale
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  #14  
Old 2008-03-12, 9:18pm
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Chem-O-Lene is fine for use with a HotHead torch.
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  #15  
Old 2008-03-13, 7:44pm
DesignsOnTheHeath DesignsOnTheHeath is offline
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Thanks for all the great help.

I couldn't get propolyne but I am getting a 25lb tank of Chem-O-Lene tomorrow!

Smiles,
Sue
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  #16  
Old 2008-03-14, 8:55am
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Dale,
I skimmed thru the information and bookmarked it for later reading more thoroughly. If I read correctly, it addresses those desiring to use larger tanks with hoses. Do you know if there are any small 1 lb. containers that can be used ... I teach a small group of students quarterly at a local art center and the center supplies the hotheads. I myself use a mini-cc torch at home but for the needs of the students taking the class I'm hoping there will be a small container they can purchace locally.
Has anyone else here come across an acceptable replacement that is small and no hoses are needed?
Thanks for any info,
Darlene
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  #17  
Old 2008-03-14, 9:35am
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Oh My Jeeze!!! So this means that the 1lb. MAPP cannisters are no longer going to be available? I tried clicking on Sue's link in the first thread...didn't work This IS a problem...I guess it's time for an upgrade...dang!

I hope this thread will continue to offer information and updates...one question I had:

When will the production/mfgr./availability of the MAPP be discontinued? Do we have an absolute date - or even month?

Thanks for posting!
DeAnne in CA
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  #18  
Old 2008-03-14, 11:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darlene Balkcum View Post
Dale,
I skimmed thru the information and bookmarked it for later reading more thoroughly. If I read correctly, it addresses those desiring to use larger tanks with hoses. Do you know if there are any small 1 lb. containers that can be used ... I teach a small group of students quarterly at a local art center and the center supplies the hotheads. I myself use a mini-cc torch at home but for the needs of the students taking the class I'm hoping there will be a small container they can purchace locally.
Has anyone else here come across an acceptable replacement that is small and no hoses are needed?
Thanks for any info,
Darlene
All that ever been available in the #1 cylinders is Propane and MAPP.....

I have no idea when the new MAP-Pro from Wothington will be available and/or in what size cylinders.

At the moment, it appears that propane is only fuel available in #1 cylinders.

Dale
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  #19  
Old 2008-03-14, 11:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theglasszone View Post

When will the production/mfgr./availability of the MAPP be discontinued? Do we have an absolute date - or even month?

Thanks for posting!
DeAnne in CA
The ONLY company in North America that manufactured and distributed MAPP will discontinued production on April 1, 2008. All that will be available is what is currently in stock in local stores or their distribution system.

Here is link (again) to Worthing Cylinder announcement.

http://www.worthingtoncylinders.com/...nce_021908.pdf

Dale
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  #20  
Old 2008-03-15, 7:02pm
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I'm glad I switched to bulk propane before MAPP was discontinued. I really liked using the one pound propane better than the one pound MAPP--mostly because it was so much less expensive.

Celeste
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  #21  
Old 2008-03-15, 7:50pm
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Spend the money and talk to a welding shop and invest $75 for a bulk tank. I would get two if you can. Then all you do is trade out tanks with more propelyene or whatever they use. The tanks that they are normally in are not not fat and round like propane bbq tanks but maybe 3 ft high (Maybe only 2) and last around 4 weeks or so. Then at least when you empty it you have a spare while you take the other one back. They normally have them filled and ready to go...
Or....you could go NG?
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  #22  
Old 2008-03-16, 11:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale M. View Post
All that ever been available in the #1 cylinders is Propane and MAPP.....

I have no idea when the new MAP-Pro from Wothington will be available and/or in what size cylinders.

At the moment, it appears that propane is only fuel available in #1 cylinders.

Dale
Thanks Dale....I've never used the propane but it seems that others have with no problems. Guess I'll give it a try.
Darlene
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  #23  
Old 2008-03-21, 9:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theglasszone View Post
Oh My Jeeze!!! So this means that the 1lb. MAPP cannisters are no longer going to be available? I tried clicking on Sue's link in the first thread...didn't work This IS a problem...I guess it's time for an upgrade...dang!

I hope this thread will continue to offer information and updates...one question I had:

When will the production/mfgr./availability of the MAPP be discontinued? Do we have an absolute date - or even month?

Thanks for posting!
DeAnne in CA
I hope we'll still be able to find the one pound canisters. BernzOMatic is still advertising their MAPP gas products, and I couldnt find any mention of those being discontinued.
http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomat...ml/index.jhtml


megan
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  #24  
Old 2008-03-22, 1:14am
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Thanks, Dale and everybody, for the input and advice on alternatives. I'm going to stock up as best I can store in my outdoor shed, away from the house and garage. I love Reenie's idea of the larger tanks - the 1# ones are more than a PITA, and especially now that I'm making layered beads and hollows, the longer use time will definitely be a plus!

Take care,
DeAnne in CA
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  #25  
Old 2008-04-07, 10:34am
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I'm running low on MAPP, I have a 7.5pound can and am not sure what to use now..Does propane get as hot as MAPP..IS Map pro going to be the new MAPP gass?? Does propelene and chem-o-lene get as hot as MAPP doesn..I work on a hothead and want to get whatever gets and works the fastest..I'm not ready to go oxy/propane yet..thanks in advance for any more info you can give..
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  #26  
Old 2008-04-11, 7:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rverk47 View Post
I'm running low on MAPP, I have a 7.5pound can and am not sure what to use now..Does propane get as hot as MAPP..IS Map pro going to be the new MAPP gass?? Does propelene and chem-o-lene get as hot as MAPP doesn..I work on a hothead and want to get whatever gets and works the fastest..I'm not ready to go oxy/propane yet..thanks in advance for any more info you can give..
Same here. I also heard that propelene is hotter but it changes the color of the glass.
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  #27  
Old 2008-04-13, 1:58am
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I met a glass worker 3 years ago who would use chemtaine, It worked fine on her hot head
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  #28  
Old 2008-04-13, 7:47am
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Map-Pro is nothing more then Handigas Pro or Handigas 2 which have been around a fair amount of time. For glass working it is much better to get your hands on some handigas 2 which burns cleaner and a little cooler than handigas pro. In Canada you can get these from BOC gas which is now known as LINDE.
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  #29  
Old 2008-04-17, 9:21am
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Default MPS gas?

The BOC in Burnside, Nova Scotia, only has handigas pro and unlike the 1# cylinders I have been using is available in 60 and 100 lb cylinders. This is way too large for me!

However, I have been advised to try MPS gas. I have picked up a 1# cylinder and am going to give it a try. I will post the results.

Vangy
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  #30  
Old 2008-04-17, 4:29pm
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found MAPP PRO at Northern Tool and supply...was like $9.50 for a bottle....
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