|
Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2012-11-11, 10:45am
|
|
Pincel de Fuego
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2010
Location: Panama city, Panama
Posts: 406
|
|
Thanks mi^2,
but I already bought 30 glaskolbens of 90coe and I can't let them go to waste...
I've been working on 104 and 102 which has been fine so far but I wanted to try something new.
__________________
Gabi
Pincel de Fuego
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2012-11-11, 3:46pm
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 14, 2006
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 2,366
|
|
Oh, that's too bad! I can understand wanting to use what you have-- and perhaps you can't even get the tubing in 104 anyway.
Have you tried it without frit (or just a very small amount of frit) to see if you're able to heat it better? Or maybe smashing the frit closer to powder so it won't act as a heat sink?
Mimi
|
2012-11-11, 3:57pm
|
|
Pincel de Fuego
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2010
Location: Panama city, Panama
Posts: 406
|
|
I haven't even used frit at all yet because I had to order 90coe frit and it hasn't arrived yet ... But the problem is supposed to be that I'm using propane on a hot head, which isn't hot enough. I'm going to try to switch to propylene tomorrow, hopefully that'll get me going.
__________________
Gabi
Pincel de Fuego
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2012-11-11, 4:32pm
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 01, 2005
Posts: 18
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnulaGlass
Here's an idea from a furnace worker- don't bother with caps, just punty up or use some hot fingers and make a loop at the top! In the hot shop we crack our ornaments off into some fiber frax and bring a fresh gather over to stick on, pull up and twist into a loop.
I'm not sure how well it'll work with soft glass, I usually end up with puddles if I try to melt that sloppy stuff, but i saw something similar done with boro recently and will be trying it tomorrow.
|
lololol this is a great thread and very informative,,i am going to try some of the techniques today,,but i love the reference to 104 as 'that sloppy stuff' i have a visual of trying to make beads with custard
|
2012-11-11, 5:04pm
|
|
Pincel de Fuego
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2010
Location: Panama city, Panama
Posts: 406
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPierce
|
Brett are these coe 104?
__________________
Gabi
Pincel de Fuego
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2012-11-11, 5:29pm
|
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 17, 2012
Location: Nunda, Ny
Posts: 19
|
|
Hey Gabi, yes they are 104 coe. I was doing a little research on the different temps of gases today and found that propylene is only about 50 degrees hotter that propane. I was worried that you would spend the money for it and be disappointed. I was also thinking of a way to possibly use a national tip that uses gas/air mix so it would be possible to get a hotter fire with the HH. I'll think about it some more tomorrow at Kodak and see what I can come up with. Hopefully I will be doing some video's of the christmas balls this week and have them up here. I was thinking you could add the frit through the blow pipe and get similar results as with the 90 coe tubes. Brett
|
2012-11-11, 6:24pm
|
|
I like fire....
|
|
Join Date: Jul 24, 2012
Location: Everett Washington
Posts: 132
|
|
Most hardware stores like Ace or Lowes will carry Mapp gas in small canisters.
I dont know if you have these kinds of stores where you are, but if you do - try looking there.
Thats what I run with my Hot Head. I hope that helps you.
__________________
Ritch
Mega Minor, on tanked oxy
Playing on both sides of the dark side - Boro and Not Boro To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2012-11-11, 10:04pm
|
|
Pincel de Fuego
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2010
Location: Panama city, Panama
Posts: 406
|
|
Thanks guys. Yeah, as far as I know we only have propane and butane here. That's what they sell at these "Lowes" type places and these are used for BBQ's... I know the plumbers and electricians use TINY little gas canisters as well but I'm pretty sure it's going to be propane as well... Tomorrow morning I'm going to call the natural gas companies to see what I can find out about other options... pretty sure mapp isn't available here as nobody I've asked knows it.
What I'm thinking though is that if propylene only burns 50 degrees hotter than propane then maybe my problem is the actual torch? Like could it be leaking or something? Would that cause such a problem? I can't believe that other people are making these on hot heads in 5 minutes and I can't do it at all. Brett, did you find out the temp difference between propane/propylene and mapp and chemtane? ::googles as well::
Sorry to be steering the conversation away from christmas balls and towards a more technical concern... As far as I know there is no other lampworker in this country. (there is, however a very small fused glass community) So I don't have anyone here to ask about torch and gas issues. I'm a pioneer of sorts. I've learned almost everything I know from YouTube, and Lampwork etc. I have a friend who makes handmade porcelain veneers (for teeth), who knows about stuff like this... I'll try to get more information from him tomorrow as well...
__________________
Gabi
Pincel de Fuego
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2012-11-11, 10:27pm
|
|
Pincel de Fuego
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2010
Location: Panama city, Panama
Posts: 406
|
|
check out what I found... http://www.finehomebuilding.com/tool...ylene-gas.aspx
according to this the difference is 150degrees ...would that make a difference?
__________________
Gabi
Pincel de Fuego
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2012-11-11, 10:37pm
|
|
Pincel de Fuego
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2010
Location: Panama city, Panama
Posts: 406
|
|
flame temperatures
OK so I found out the flame temperatures are:
propane 3450°F
butane 3591°F
propylene 3600°F
mapp 5300°F
chemtane 6000°F
So... I definitely need mapp!!!!!!! Which I already knew. More research tomorrow. I can't believe this crap.
__________________
Gabi
Pincel de Fuego
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2012-11-12, 6:43am
|
|
Pincel de Fuego
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2010
Location: Panama city, Panama
Posts: 406
|
|
Super screwed. The only other welding gas they sell here is acetylene... and it costs $223.83 for a tank. I'm going to have to upgrade my torch instead...
I'm not going to give up yet, I'll keep calling other places but it sounds like this is it. Frustration doesn't even begin to describe it.
__________________
Gabi
Pincel de Fuego
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2012-11-12, 11:59am
|
|
Pincel de Fuego
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2010
Location: Panama city, Panama
Posts: 406
|
|
__________________
Gabi
Pincel de Fuego
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2012-11-12, 12:03pm
|
|
Pincel de Fuego
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2010
Location: Panama city, Panama
Posts: 406
|
|
Here's a thought... If I made these with the hollow mandrels... Could I make them clear, and then drop in some murrini/millefiori or frit through the hole, or is it done once you blow it?
__________________
Gabi
Pincel de Fuego
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2012-11-12, 12:25pm
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 27, 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 87
|
|
After reading this thread, I'm really interested in trying to make an ornament in soft glass. I've made a few boro ones with pulled points, plain clear being easiest, but I tried color and had mixed results. I think soft glass would be fun, I love the flow of the glass compared to boro.
|
2012-11-12, 12:54pm
|
|
I speak Murrini!
|
|
Join Date: Oct 12, 2006
Location: In a Glass House, CA
Posts: 9,170
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by allegrafuct
|
Very similar to how I do it! And with 104 and on a Hot Head too!
A few suggestions...I saw him press the gather down on a marver after he made the first few winds atop the footprint; be careful with this, as you don't want to end up pushing any of the gather glass up into the hollow of the mandrel.
Also, as I think I mentioned, I've found that holding the mandrel and gather upward (like a raised trumpet) when blowing gives it a more round finish; holding it downward often results in a egg or oval shaped ornament. This can be a good thing though if you're going for a teardrop or puffed icicle type of shape...
And I see he used what I THINK is Ivory for the footprint (the first wind that creates the "neck"). I've found that if you're using "caps" over the neck area on the finished piece, maybe doing the neck in clear isn't a bad idea instead. Some colors are very soft and can be persnikety, wanting to elongate or ball up when you're heating the remainder of the gather! Clear is often stiffer than many of the light colored 104 glasses, and can help to hold the neck shape better.
Now on the subject of using light colors, I must warn you - using WHITE (104) for your ornament can be a real challenge! (At least for me!) I decided I wanted to make a hollow vessel/ornament type snowman yesterday - gul! Talk about soft! That effetre white took on a life of it's own and wanted to drip all over the place! It also wanted to colapse easily, so just giving you a head's up! I will say that I was DETERMINED to conquer it though...my resulting "vessel" will be in tonight's Gallery! Not perfect, but after all we went through together, I think I him!
Keep us posted on your progress, ok?
De
__________________
~DeAnne~
I've got a murrini for that,'ya know! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Only a fool rushes to his own demise..." ~Zorro
|
2012-11-12, 1:58pm
|
|
Now part of the Dark Side
|
|
Join Date: Jul 02, 2010
Location: North Central PA
Posts: 966
|
|
You don't want acetylene, it's not clean enough for glass work and it really needs oxy to get it to burn properly. I do have an acetylene air torch for plumbing but it is a special torch. Plus as you have found out it's not cheap. I'd be willing to bet that the $200+ price tag includes the purchase of the tank. THe last time I got a 60 cuft tank swapped I think it was around $25 US.
__________________
Roy
Hot glass does not crack.
Unless it is glowing and drippy, hot glass looks like cold glass.
|
2012-11-12, 2:16pm
|
|
Pincel de Fuego
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2010
Location: Panama city, Panama
Posts: 406
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonharper
You don't want acetylene, it's not clean enough for glass work and it really needs oxy to get it to burn properly. I do have an acetylene air torch for plumbing but it is a special torch. Plus as you have found out it's not cheap. I'd be willing to bet that the $200+ price tag includes the purchase of the tank. THe last time I got a 60 cuft tank swapped I think it was around $25 US.
|
Right. That includes the tank for $150 and the refil is $73.83. I don't think it's worth the trouble. I'm going to have to upgrade my torch.
__________________
Gabi
Pincel de Fuego
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2012-11-15, 8:38am
|
|
Marble Lover
|
|
Join Date: Apr 16, 2012
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 802
|
|
I got to try blowing ornaments from the Glaskolben last night. The BE frit I have is too coarse, but I put some in the first one, anyway. The whole thing was just plain baaaaad. I'll keep it for a good laugh.
The second one I did turned out well, except I burnt the snot out of the red BE stringer I put on it. I'll attach that pic. I'm happy with the shape, though, for a second try. I didn't expect a good ball to come out of it so I laid random stringer all over it.
For the third one, I laid some blue on it and the color came out well, but the ball wasn't as spherical as I wanted. I need to find the perfect heat amount where the glass is ready to be blown but the color isn't melted if I'm going to decorate the outside.
I was going to make some snowmen, then realized I was out of white and only had 1 black stringer left. So, I made a quick Zombie Snowman.
-BEP
__________________
Brian E. Parker aka BEPNewt
Lifelong glass lover, now getting to work with it. Using a Bravo on an M20 & Natural Gas ( inner ), Tanked O2 & Propane ( outer ).
Grew up near To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. .
|
2012-11-15, 9:25am
|
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 17, 2012
Location: Nunda, Ny
Posts: 19
|
|
Looks good Brian! Zombie snowmen...yeeees!
|
2012-11-15, 9:34am
|
|
...
|
|
Join Date: Apr 03, 2006
Location: Nor-Cal Coast
Posts: 892
|
|
|
2012-11-15, 9:57am
|
|
Marble Lover
|
|
Join Date: Apr 16, 2012
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 802
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPierce
Looks good Brian! Zombie snowmen...yeeees!
|
Thanks, Brett. I screwed the Snowman up - I made his head and body too far apart so tried to put another donut between and that was horrible. I almost dunked him to hear that satisfying sizzle, then decided to see if I could marver him back into a snowman. It worked OK! It's not a great marver job, but I knew the scarf would cover it. Most importantly, he's the first one I made that I didn't crack because I remembered to keep him heated.
Mike - I don't even have a good word to describe those furnace blow balls. I'll go with Freakin' Gorgeous for now. Thanks for the tip on the even color. On that first one you displayed, are the clear spots from clear frit? It looks like it.
-BEP
__________________
Brian E. Parker aka BEPNewt
Lifelong glass lover, now getting to work with it. Using a Bravo on an M20 & Natural Gas ( inner ), Tanked O2 & Propane ( outer ).
Grew up near To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. .
|
2012-11-15, 10:35am
|
|
Pincel de Fuego
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2010
Location: Panama city, Panama
Posts: 406
|
|
Mike! Those are AMAZING!!!
__________________
Gabi
Pincel de Fuego
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2012-11-15, 11:23am
|
|
Run Free Sweet Boy
|
|
Join Date: Jan 29, 2008
Location: Orlando, Fl.
Posts: 2,194
|
|
you can use the 96 frits like for furnace work with 90 coe with NO problem, been doing it for over 30 years. the 90 coe frit from bullseye is much stiffer and it tends to scorch in an oxy flame, I abandoned that idea, but the 90 coe thompson enamels work great too
__________________
NEW FLAMINGO BEACH BEAD TUTORIAL AVAILABLE NOW.CHRISTMAS ORNAMENT AND ICICLE TUTORIAL, VISIT MY ETSY SHOP AT To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"It's not what you have, it's who you are."
|
2012-11-15, 11:35am
|
|
Run Free Sweet Boy
|
|
Join Date: Jan 29, 2008
Location: Orlando, Fl.
Posts: 2,194
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPierce
Hey Gabi, yes they are 104 coe. I was doing a little research on the different temps of gases today and found that propylene is only about 50 degrees hotter that propane. I was worried that you would spend the money for it and be disappointed. I was also thinking of a way to possibly use a national tip that uses gas/air mix so it would be possible to get a hotter fire with the HH. I'll think about it some more tomorrow at Kodak and see what I can come up with. Hopefully I will be doing some video's of the christmas balls this week and have them up here. I was thinking you could add the frit through the blow pipe and get similar results as with the 90 coe tubes. Brett
|
I think most gas air tips would not give a broad enough flame. I learned all my blown work with 90 coe glass and a cross fire using propane and forced air. you need at LEAST a 5 point crossfire( like used in neon shops) to make ornaments. this was my bread an butter for many many years. Problem is, with that type of set up the stems for the glasskolbens are WAY too short. your fingers would fry. I know this from experience.
__________________
NEW FLAMINGO BEACH BEAD TUTORIAL AVAILABLE NOW.CHRISTMAS ORNAMENT AND ICICLE TUTORIAL, VISIT MY ETSY SHOP AT To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"It's not what you have, it's who you are."
|
2012-11-15, 12:40pm
|
|
Pincel de Fuego
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2010
Location: Panama city, Panama
Posts: 406
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by patienthand
i think most gas air tips would not give a broad enough flame. I learned all my blown work with 90 coe glass and a cross fire using propane and forced air. You need at least a 5 point crossfire( like used in neon shops) to make ornaments. This was my bread an butter for many many years. Problem is, with that type of set up the stems for the glasskolbens are way too short. Your fingers would fry. I know this from experience.
|
what a bad experience!
__________________
Gabi
Pincel de Fuego
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2012-11-15, 3:02pm
|
|
Marble Lover
|
|
Join Date: Apr 16, 2012
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 802
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by patienthand
Problem is, with that type of set up the stems for the glasskolbens are WAY too short. your fingers would fry. I know this from experience.
|
My hands were getting warm last night, for sure.
-BEP
__________________
Brian E. Parker aka BEPNewt
Lifelong glass lover, now getting to work with it. Using a Bravo on an M20 & Natural Gas ( inner ), Tanked O2 & Propane ( outer ).
Grew up near To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. .
|
2012-11-15, 6:08pm
|
|
...
|
|
Join Date: Apr 03, 2006
Location: Nor-Cal Coast
Posts: 892
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bepnewt
Mike - I don't even have a good word to describe those furnace blow balls. I'll go with Freakin' Gorgeous for now. Thanks for the tip on the even color. On that first one you displayed, are the clear spots from clear frit? It looks like it.
-BEP
|
Thanks! The clear looking spots are light blue #3 sized frit
|
2012-11-15, 8:00pm
|
|
Pincel de Fuego
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2010
Location: Panama city, Panama
Posts: 406
|
|
..that newbie moment when you realize frit comes in different sizes, and these sizes are numbered....
__________________
Gabi
Pincel de Fuego
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2012-11-15, 9:57pm
|
Naysayer
|
|
Join Date: Sep 22, 2009
Posts: 1,203
|
|
^and that not every company uses the same size/numbers! One company's #2 could be another's #3 lol
I always go to http://www.thatfritgirl.com/ because she lists the sizes for each.
So Gabi, in the meantime why not make them on a stainless blowpipe? I did a lot on a HH with just propane. I've dropped some frit down with mixed results, issues could be me. I usually roll the gather into frit/s then melt them in.
|
2012-11-16, 6:51am
|
|
Pincel de Fuego
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2010
Location: Panama city, Panama
Posts: 406
|
|
Yep!!! That's what I'm going to do! My hollow mandrels will be here in 10 days..
__________________
Gabi
Pincel de Fuego
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. / To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 9:43am.
|