red glass turns black....help please??

[Lisi]

I'm getting ready to throw it away! All of it! Well, except the Lauscha and the striking colors, I do fine with those.

I haven't used red glass since I was on the HH, and now it turns brown (looks just like Effetre 444/lt brown) or black. The Effetre purple red I used yesterday turned black. Why does this happen? I don't think I was "cooking" it. Are the reds doomed or is it just me??

Are Bullseye and Uroboros opal reds nice? Easier to work with? I just want a nice red, and if it turns slightly a orangey hue, that's ok, just not different shades of brown and black.

[Anne Londez]

Which torch are you on ? What does your flame look like ? Where are you working in the flame ? I'm asking because it can be either a lack of oxygen or too much oxygen. The reds are sensitive to an excess of oxygen as well as to a reducing flame.

[lavendar420]

Were they still black when they cooled down? (if they weren't buried at sea that is)

[Bunyip]

Reds seem to turn black if you work them too long also. Might be the whole "too much oxygen" thing at work, I don't know.

[Lisi]

I'm on a Bobcat and generator, and I'm working with a neutral to oxydizing flame. I made a small spacer of the purple red and it stayed dark brown after it was cooled. No, it didn't get the water dunk! LOL!

[Anne Londez]

Then I'd say too much oxygen and too much heat, even if you don't cook it. Try working in a neutral flame with barely enough oxygen and farther out.

[Jenfire]

Mine did that until I worked it out at the very end of the flame. You are burning it.
Jen

[gwacie]

Jen's right. Red's will tend to liver (turn ugly brown) if you work them too hot or too long. Dk Purple Red is my favorite of the reds but it goes dark pretty fast. When you work it stretch your arms out nearly straight and work in the end third of the flame. Just keep remembering to straighten your arms out and reach and you should be ok. By doing that you will be working in a cooler part of the flame and it will give you a longer working window with the color. The longer you keep it hot, the more likely the color will darken.

[bousky]

You might want to give bullseye a try! I have never had anything close to what you describe happen with BE.

[squid]

Originally Posted by bousky

You might want to give bullseye a try! I have never had anything close to what you describe happen with BE.

I was thinking the same thing!

[Lisi]

Wow, the reds really are so finicky, huh! I'm going to try Bullseye and Uroboros for now, and then I'll try to work on correcting the burning problem with the Effetre.

[Chuckie]

My Bobcat doesn't seem to like just one concentrator. I do the same thing if I work too hot (easy to do on this setup). I have to work quickly and way, way, way out in the flame. Either that, or just use the red on surface decoration so I don't have to work it any longer than I have to.

Do you have a 2-stage propane regulator? If so, I was advised to switch to a BBQ regulator to decrease the propane pressure to work better with the single oxycon, or to double up the number of oxy cons. Either that or have some tanked oxy for the more finicky colors and the dichro.

I haven't been able to convince the DH to let me use the BBQ regulator. He says the two stage is safer. (Did I mention that sometimes I just want to strangle him?) Since he's being a dork, I'm gonna make him buy me a second oxycon with some of his tax return money. That should fix his wagon.

Char

[tangentgirl]

Hello - Super-newbie here. I just started making glass beads this afternoon. Woohoo!

I have a similar problem, but with my blues. They are turning red(ish), although they remain blue on the inside. (How do I know? Some of them broke. Blah.) Also, my black glass just turns grey.

I have a Hot Head propane torch. I'm going to try using a lower flame and to put the glass higher in the flame, but are there any other suggestions with these colors?

[Lisi]

Originally Posted by tangentgirl

Hello - Super-newbie here. I just started making glass beads this afternoon. Woohoo!

I have a similar problem, but with my blues. They are turning red(ish), although they remain blue on the inside. (How do I know? Some of them broke. Blah.) Also, my black glass just turns grey.

I have a Hot Head propane torch. I'm going to try using a lower flame and to put the glass higher in the flame, but are there any other suggestions with these colors?

Your blues (turquoises and sky blues) have copper in them and if you work too close to the torch head with them, the flame is a reduction flame, and that brings the copper to the surface. Try working further out, and that should correct it.

[tangentgirl]

Rockin'! I'll give it a try in the morning. Thanks!

[Chapter1]

I have the same problem on my HH with trans reds and orange from Moretti. I switched to Vetro Trans Red and Lausha trans. I was working them hot then i tried working them cool, still got black,. Found out you can't work them long, so being on a HH and having to work longer, i needed to switch.

So far so good.

[Lisi]

Originally Posted by Chapter1

I have the same problem on my HH with trans reds and orange from Moretti. I switched to Vetro Trans Red and Lausha trans. I was working them hot then i tried working them cool, still got black,. Found out you can't work them long, so being on a HH and having to work longer, i needed to switch.

So far so good.

You can get great results with those striking colors and the HH. Try working them cool and further out, let the bead cool some, then gently back in the outer flame for a few seconds and rotations of the mandrel. You will see the color pop out. They strike pretty easily and can remain bright if you don't overheat them too much. The HH can get pretty hot esp. if you are using bulk fuel.

Are you using propane or Mapp?? If on propane, do you get sooty marks on your clear and transparent colors?? If the propane soots up your glass then that could be the problem with the reds turning black. It's been my experience that you get the best colors with Mapp or propylene, or the other Mapp sustitutes.

[kbinkster]

Originally Posted by Chuckie

My Bobcat doesn't seem to like just one concentrator. I do the same thing if I work too hot (easy to do on this setup). I have to work quickly and way, way, way out in the flame. Either that, or just use the red on surface decoration so I don't have to work it any longer than I have to.

Do you have a 2-stage propane regulator? If so, I was advised to switch to a BBQ regulator to decrease the propane pressure to work better with the single oxycon, or to double up the number of oxy cons. Either that or have some tanked oxy for the more finicky colors and the dichro.

I haven't been able to convince the DH to let me use the BBQ regulator. He says the two stage is safer. (Did I mention that sometimes I just want to strangle him?) Since he's being a dork, I'm gonna make him buy me a second oxycon with some of his tax return money. That should fix his wagon.

Char

What kind of concentrator do you have? What kind of problems are you having? It has been my experience that the Bobcat can run quite well on 5 LPM. It could be that your concentrator is not performing as well as it should be.

Low purity can cause a reduction flame that does not look like the typical reduction flame. When a concentrator puts out lower purity, the fuel does not get combusted efficiently and the flame is cooler than it would be with higher purity oxygen. You have to work harder and longer and may reduce some colors. Because air combusts fuel, you will still have a blue flame. But, it will be weaker looking. Try testing your flame chemistry with a highly reactive glass (isn't Amazon Night one of those colors great for testing for a reductive flame?).

You shouldn't have to change your fuel pressure. The Bobcat can run on as low as 1/4 psi, but 5-10 psi is a good range for most regulators (to minimize fluctuations). You control the mix of fuel and oxygen with the torch valves.

[ez2remember]

I had a similar problem with Rubino until I recently took a class and the instructor told me that I was working it too close to the torch head.

Sure enough, I work it farther out and no longer have the problem.

edz

[DFS]

Lisi,
I had the same problem with all the Effetre reds. I was toldt hat I was burning it up. Sure enough working with a smaller flame or further out in the flame has helps a lot. I like to work hot and fast and this was definitely a change for me. I also bought the Lauscha reds, and they seem to tolerate the heat much better.


Joyce

[Chuckie]

Originally Posted by kbinkster

What kind of concentrator do you have? What kind of problems are you having?

I have a Devilbis 4. Works great. I'm pretty sure it's a fuel problem. I start out with this great, neutral flame. After a while I end up with a tiny flame. Then when I try to adjust it back to the original flame, the flame changes back and forth between a larger flame and a smaller flame. I know what you're thinking, but it's not "breathing" as if the seive bed is going bad, it's way slower and a more random change. Nothing rhythmic and it doesn't change with the sounds of the concentrator.

If I bump the propane pressure up to 6psi, it stabilizes the problem. But then I start burning up my glass. I even managed to reduce a color I had no idea was supposed to reduce. Ticked me off too...that was a darned good bead...ruined the look I was going for.

I've borrowed a friend's Minor to hook up to it to see if it does the same thing. We'll see what happens.

[ShyAnne]

Hi, I'm a newbie too. I've been torching for approx. a month on a mini cc and a M-20 concentrator. My problem is with turquoise. It comes out dirty looking from the kiln and the only way I can get rid of it is by etching it away. Is this normal? Am I torching too hot or cold or reduced? I can't figure it out!!! Any help would be appreciated!!

[kbinkster]

Char, it does sound like it could be a regulator issue. Have you tried bumping up the pressure at the regulator and turning down the flow with the valve? Have you watched the regulator gauge to see what it is doing during the flame fluctuations? If it is a fuel pressure problem, the needle on the gauge will move up and down when the flame fluctuates. If the needle doesn't change, then I would suspect the concentrator. Now, if your torch was new and the flame would shrink back, but not get larger again on its own, I would tell you that it was the valves seating.

BTW, breathing would be normal for standard two-seive machines due to the way they work.

Anne, turquoise is notoriously reducing.

[NicNacBeads]

ShyAnne,

Could also be that you have a reducing atmosphere in your kiln.

[Lisi]

Originally Posted by ShyAnne

Hi, I'm a newbie too. I've been torching for approx. a month on a mini cc and a M-20 concentrator. My problem is with turquoise. It comes out dirty looking from the kiln and the only way I can get rid of it is by etching it away. Is this normal? Am I torching too hot or cold or reduced? I can't figure it out!!! Any help would be appreciated!!

If I'm not "fine tuning" my torch and I just get lazy and work with a more reducing flame, then my turquoises get dirty. I soak them in 2 parts toilet bowl cleaner to 1 part water solution for about 10 15 minutes. Gets all the gunk off, and works great with copper green too.

I like Snobol brand the best!

[ShyAnne]

Thanks guys! At least I know what I'm dealing with now. The toiletbowl cleaning stuff is a good tip. Thanks again, I'll have to try it.