Need Torch Upgrade Advice!

Aubs · #1 2009-01-19, 8:14am

Hi everyone--
It has come to the point where I am spending WAY too much $$ on my disposable MAPP gas tanks.....I usually torch between 2 and 4 hours a day, so the small tanks just seem like a waste at this point. I am considering upgrading to an oxygen/ propane setup, but I really have no clue what to get! I already have 2 large tanks that my father owns ( 1 oxy, 1 propane) so I would like to utilize these if I can, which would give me more $$ to spend on the torch. Any info you can give me is much appreciated!!

kittyluv4ever · #2 2009-01-19, 8:49am

All depending on how large you work I would go with a GTT torch http://www.glasstorchtech.com/torches.html I have a Phantom and absolutely love it. If you are not going to be doing any type of sculpture or extremely large beads I would look at either a cheetah or lynx. If you even think that you would one day like to do some larger work and you can afford it I'd go with a Phantom. GTT torches hold their value really well too so don't be suprised if you should go looking for a used one that you pay almost as much or as much as a new one. That being said that is the one draw back to the GTT torches is (by my understanding) they make one type of torch at one time then then next style and so on so it could take some time before you actually get your torch. Hope this helps.
Donna

Alison D · #3 2009-01-19, 8:57am

I love my mini cc. I can make beads and even get a large enough gather hot enough to blow 3 inch ornaments. I am tankless so my fuel cost is about zilch. In the summer when the only thing that runs on the natural gas is my torch and the stove I used only 5$ a month on gas for both. I got my oxycons from

http://www.hobbiesforus.com/

the devillbiss units, so no tanks to fill or pay for.

FYI, My knobs do not get hot.

Aubs · #4 2009-01-19, 9:25am

Thanks for the advice! I was looking On sundance glass and found a kit for the GTT Bobcat, that comes with hoses and regulators.....any opinions on the Bobcat? Also, it recommends having 2 stage regulators, which is an additonal $185.....is this a necessity?

kittyluv4ever · #5 2009-01-19, 9:44am

I don't remember the difference between the single stage and two stage regulators I just remember I paid like $65.00 for my Smith propane one. Here's where I purchased mine www.cyberweld.com and they've went up about $10.00. I've been using mine for about two years now and not a single problem with it. I also run on oxycons so don't use an oxygen one. Look around on the web you should be able to find some for less than $185. Any GTT torch is worth the money. Also if you are using tanked oxy you will need to get some flash back arrestors for safety. Maybe some one else will chime in on the regulator issue but I can't see the necessity myself.

Dale M. · #6 2009-01-19, 10:10am

A 2 stage regulator has two cambers that reduce tank pressure to a intermediate pressure in first chamber then reduced the intermediate pressure down to the working pressure you have adjusted regulator to in second chamber....

Advantage of 2 stage regulator is more precise control of pressure and volume, over single stage regulator which does all the above in one chamber....

Do you need 2 stage regulator?... Probably not, a good quality single stage (brand name- not Chinese knockoffs) will be more than adequate for most of the glass work you may ever want to do....Look for names like Smith, National, Victor, ther eis more but brain will not cooperate this morning....

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8

Also depending on torch you select, you may not even need expensive adjustable regulator. IF torch is capable of operation on low pressures like residential Natural Gass service, you can probably use a lesser expensive fixed pressure regulator mostly associated with BBQ grills and RV (camping) use... These will be about half the price of a single stage adjustable regulator (welding style) , only negative is it will limit how big a flame your torch can produce when valves may be full open (which you may never even use).

I used one with a National 8M torch using SM7 tip and one oxycon ( for a while) and had more heat than a HH could ever possibly match...

Just beware of sellers trying to get you to upgrade beyond your basic needs.. You can always upgrade later IF you find the need....

Dale

tonips · #7 2009-01-20, 9:28am

I recently upgraded from HH to a Cricket and love it. Bought a 5 lpm oxycon and have a 20# propane tank. I keep the propane tank outside when I'm working, and the setup is very quiet and works very well. The cricket was developed specifically for use with the 5 lpm oxycons and it certainly is hot enough for making large beads.

Elizabeth Beads · #8 2009-01-20, 10:47am

You can also go with a Nortel torch, such as the Minor Burner, Mega Minor or Mid-Range. You will need regulators for both propane and oxy tanks but you won't need flashback arrestors for the surface mix torches.

Aubs · #9 2009-01-20, 11:03am

i was actually looking at a GTT Bobcat......I wouldn't need flashback arrestors for this kind of otrch?

nagibeads · #10 2009-01-20, 12:11pm

my vote is for any GTT!

effemess · #11 2009-01-20, 4:42pm

I've just upgraded from a hothead on bulk propane to a bobcat and an oxycon - and Im in heaven. The bobcat is a brilliant torch, very user friendly, and a friend who has just bought one can do boro on it with on 5 litre oxycon !!! Truely a great torch and one that I, as a newbie, would thoroughly recommend.

lunamoonshadow · #12 2009-01-21, 11:41am

I'm upgrading to a cricket in the next month or so....going from a hothead, my 2 choices are cricket & mini cc...(mini cc's are fantastic on tanked o2 for boro...crickets are AMAZING on oxycons, & of course work just dandy on tanked--mine will be on an oxycon...it's gonna be my birthday gift...late...I just found out mom is ordering it...I'm so excited!)

deirdreschaneman · #13 2009-01-21, 4:20pm

I got a Nortel Mega Minor burner last year and absolutely love it. It's low maintenance and great for small to medium sized work. Really easy to control and works great with an oxy con. And Nortel products are notorious for reliability.

malem · #14 2009-01-21, 9:32pm

I started jan 08 with a hot head, in June got a Mega Minor, loved it but got into marbles, and interested in small sculptures, wine stoppers etc... and love the boro colors so this December I got a GTT Lynx! I am happy puppy so far!
the quality of the GTT Lynx amazes me!

NMLinda · #15 2009-01-22, 4:38pm

Just a comment on not needing flash-back arrestors with surface mix torches - it wouldn't be my recommendation, based on personal experience. While the surface mix torches aren't prone to flash-backs, it's not impossible for it to happen. I had one with my Minor and was very, very glad I had flashback arrestors. It's been a long time, but I think it was caused by me letting my propane tank go completely empty while I was working.

Linda

mostlydetails · #16 2009-01-22, 8:30pm

I suppose you really need to think about what you'd like to make long-term. When I upgraded years ago, I bought a Lynx because I wanted to do boro at some point. Ironically, it's been about 4+ years and I still haven't melted my first rod of boro, but I LOVE the torch regardless.

Looking back, I think I might have been happy with the Cricket had it been available at the time. The Lynx is an Oxy hog -- something I was not prepared for with my heavy oxy tank, so I ended up with the extra expense of buying an oxy generator. Again, something I LOVE, but the cost at the time was painful.

Renee · #17 2009-01-22, 10:47pm

I'm also a fan of GTT, and have a Phantom.

SteveWright · #18 2009-01-22, 10:55pm

I've used a Bobcat and Lynx and they are great torches. I started on a Minor and now own a National 3M. I would be happy with any of them on a day-to-day basis, and you will too. Most of the torches out there are great tools. Get one in your price range and have fun. If you later decide to upgrade, you can eBay your torch for a decent percent of the original price, just jump in, you wont be sorry. (I have also used a Midrange[no thank you], Mirage, Phantom and Hothead)

I got my 8M because it converts to a premix for boro, works great but the Lynx would be a fine torch. The Bobcat is a great torch too. I'd love to try one of the newer torches mentioned, but I suspect I would be happy with them too. Jump in.

The question to ask is about oxygen.

Oxygen is the biggest ongoing expense. You need to find out how much it costs to fill your tank, and what size tank you own. My 252 cubic tank is about 5 feet tall and 8-9 inches in diameter. I can horse it into my truck, but it is at my limit.

Gas suppliers, usually welding supply companies, are the source of oxygen. Your oxygen tank has a date stamped in code on it and needs tested every few years[5 or 10]. If your tank is outdated, you will incur expenses getting it tested.

Assuming your tank is in date, you take it to a supplier and swap it out for a filled tank, a customer owned tank with a white ring around the top. I pay $12 to get my 252 Cubic foot tank swapped. Some people pay $30+ for the same oxygen. My torch, and many of the torches you will look at, use 10 cubic feet of oxygen an hour. I get 25 hours of torch time for my 252 cubic foot tank [$12].

When you walk in to your prospective supplier of oxygen you will be sized up, at least in my experience. (Susie and I used to live on the road full time) If they size you up as green, you will pay the max.

Here is what you do. Grunge up and walk in and ask for an application for a cash account. Establish an account by filling out a simple form then find out the cost of swapping out your tank.

Depending on the size of your tank and the deals you can cut at your oxygen supplier, it might be a good idea to consider an retired medical oxygen concentrator.

Steve

Feldt's Glass · #19 2009-01-22, 11:45pm

A bobcat would be a great choice. It is a nice size while still being affordable. I started taking classes on a bobcat, purchased a lynx, needed more fire so about a year later went to a cheetah. I like all of them. The bobcat does not have all the flame sizes available on the lynx but I found I don’t adjust the flame very often anyway so that didn’t matter much for me. If you have a good oxy source you can do a lot with a bobcat.