What set up do you have?

Lorraine Chandler · #1 2010-03-16, 12:56pm

It is now apparent to me with California laws pertaining to businesses and insurances that I am going to have to do something I have been not wanting to do! I have been racking my brain and always come to the same solution..so I thought I would do this poll and see if I missed any other options....

Plus it will be fun and interesting to see what everyone else is doing.

If you have something not listed as a poll question please tell us about it, as it might just be an answer to my studio problems..

Thank-you
Lorraine

The Mad Beader · #2 2010-03-16, 1:27pm

I put garage and not insured because we rent the house and I am indeed in the garage. I know the landlord has the place insured though. The city knows what I do as does my landlord and all my neighbors. They come talk to me at night when they are on their walks. lol

Lorraine Chandler · #3 2010-03-16, 1:32pm

Oh, how neat is that!! Can't do that where I live, they would be scoping out the place!!!

Thank-you for contributing..

Lorraine

Sheila D. · #4 2010-03-16, 1:47pm

I have my setup off the garage and insurance is through our homeowners.

Lorraine Chandler · #5 2010-03-16, 3:19pm

One of the reason that I am doing this is because of a conversation I had with my inurance agent a few days ago..I talked with her for hours and really dug into my policy to see exactly what coverage I had.

1. It seems that a lot of the time people think they are automatically covered by their home owners insurance. That couldn't be further from the truth.

2. People seem to think the agent knows all, that also couldn't be further from the truth. It is the underwriters that know all and I find that most agents know very little about lampworking/studio insurance.

3. Most homeowners policies will be CANCELED the minute they find out you have a torch or kiln or metalsmithing in the house or garage.

4. Most homeowners policies cover only "normal house hold and garage goods'.

5. Most people think they are covered for the insured amount they pay monthly for if they are burglarized..not true. You will only receive your "sublimit". Mine is 1500.00 which won't even cover my wedding ring.

6. If you have guns, or coins or stamps or jewelry or hobby stuff they have to be covered with additional insurance after you have had them appraised, photographed and the receipts all kept in a safety deposit box or? so you can prove what was in the house.

Just to add 1 piece of jewelry to my policy increased my insurance more than I could afford. Individual items are mega bucks to insure!!

7. The only way you get the full insured amount is if your house burns to the ground, so you get the house and contents. Or maybe a hurricane or flood etc. Otherwise it is the dreaded sublimit.

8. So in order for me to have the huge amount of investment I have in lampworking, jewelry making, metalsmithing covered for replacement values, I have to have it under one roof and totally separate from the house with a business policy because...ready for #9???

9. If the insurance company finds out you have sold just $1.00 worth of your hobby, you are a business in their eyes for all intents and purposes).
The government, the city, the county all have different views on what is a business. Getting a policy for the business in the house along with the house policy was not an option, it just doesn't work that way because our hobby is high risk. Therefore you cannot have it in your home or the garage.

People have told me they called their inurance agent and they told them No problem your covered...I would bet on the ponies you are NOT covered because they never put specific questions to the underwriters or they know you have a very small sublimit and are not worried about paying because of the wonderful grey area.

I hope that this post and thread may help some others to know their insurance policies.

I have made a decision to gather the jewelry room in the bedroom, the metalsmithing area in the garage and the horsetrailer studio all into one studio building in the back yard just so I can have peace of mind by insuring the whole thing as a business.

Or I just might sell everything and go to Hawaaii for a long vacation!!!

Lorraine

dragonart glass · #6 2010-03-16, 10:17pm

I have my studio in a trailer on the side of my house. I bought liability insurance through the ISGB. I needed it to do shows, but the agent said it covers all aspects of my work from teaching to shows and my studio. I live in a high fire area so I think my insurance company would be happy to cancel. I think they prefer to cover as little as possible. Thanks for the heads up. I would be worrying a lot more if I hadn't gotten insurance already. I'm also in California, btw.

Lorraine Chandler · #7 2010-03-17, 11:57am

Hi Polly, I like your avatar!

I dreaded digging in deep to find out exactly what was what. I had put it off for several years but decided that 2010 was the year I was going to do all of "those things".

It really was a bummer to know how the coverages work and how little we really have but you have it right..a complete separate coverage on a complete separate detached area..

The good news is it will increase my property value, let me teach and share or have play days without any liability worries, it also makes for a much easier tax time because nothing is in the house so no worries about red flags triggered for auditors. I also have installed an inventory program and that will all be much easier because it will all be in one place..SHEESH!!

Thanks for replying.
Lorraine

simvet02 · #8 2010-03-17, 3:54pm

Boy, what a conversation you started in this household...LOL I just think I was in denial and hubby was oblivious. I told him that we needed to call the insurance agent and be ready to build a little out building. I've always wanted to do it that way anyway.

I work in an unfinished basement right now, my propane bottle is out the back door and I only hook it up when I'm using it, which if I remember right is not really legal either.

All these rules...LOL such an inconvenience...well until something bad happens.

Thanks so much for doing the legwork, now we all need to be responsible.

Lorraine Chandler · #9 2010-03-17, 7:12pm

Oh Jan, thank you so much for the kind words..I giggled at your first sentence!!

I am so glad you may get a nice little backyard studio? That is the plus side to all of the insurance crude we need to address. Believe me I HATED making that initial phone call. But it turned out well worth it.

Now to decide on where to put that shed....

Lorraine

simvet02 · #10 2010-03-17, 8:22pm

You and me both Lorraine, we have lots of property behind the house but it's hilly and full of trees. It's going to need to be fairly close to the house so that we can get electricity to it. Why did I ever retire??? LOL

Torched Art · #11 2010-03-18, 8:59am

Thank you for posting this. I am currently working on getting insurance too. There is another thread with info about this.

I'm glad you also added such a detailed list of all the issues that were addressed in your conversation with the insurance agent.

I recently was talking with an agent, and he got on the subject of what precautions I take for safety, protecting the home, myself and students. I told him that I have special ventilation, fireproofing, first aid kit, fire extinguishers, etc. In addition, I also have a substancial amount of safety information that I have my students and guests read and sign. I also have a liability waiver. He suggested also to have an incident report in case anyone gets hurt, and to take pictures of the injury and workspace and the thing that hurt them. All this documentation is going to help if you were to get sued if they trip on a bead or burn their skin. If you want a copy of the incident report, I have it posted on my blog.

Torched Art · #12 2010-03-18, 9:04am

here is the other thread http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154570

Lorraine Chandler · #13 2010-03-18, 9:37am

Thank-you Christina! That is very good to know. I will be making a visit to your site.

Teaching is a whole nother' ball park and it needs to be done lawfully or else you could loose everything.

I will have my business policy with the same company but it will be separate and both policies will have the $1,000,000.00 liability. I just feel we can't be over-insured in that area. The liability is a huge part but insuring the contents and the building is about the same for me. SO my policy is for both and will be about $1000-$1200 a year.

MY insurance policy will cover
Liability in the studio, teaching, in the home if students come inside to use the bathroom etc., It basically follows me and my stuff and my students. going to shows, anyone at the shows that gets hurts at my booth for any reason, anybody's displays I ruin including their tents in case mine blows onto theirs etc. all of the jewelry, displays, just all kinds of liability.
Then there is insuring the studio building and it contents for replacemnet value, for fire, theft, earthquake, wind, water etc.

I like knowing my new policy insures me to the hilt..I just have to make a few more beads, teach a few more classes and maybe move myself into a more business agressive mode in order to have all of this and keep my sanity at the same time. LOL

Lorraine

Torched Art · #14 2010-03-18, 10:03am

I forgot to answer your poll. I chedked "other".

I am in a covered patio with "temporary" walls. The floor is concrete, the agent was pleased with that. He was also pleased that the studio was not "in the house" like a spare bedroom. I would love to have it in a nice shed because our view out the livingroom is my messy mish-mash of tools and equipment. But it's very convenient and I have plenty of space. I love it.

Lorraine Chandler · #15 2010-03-18, 12:05pm

I found out through another lampworker on TB that Statefarm
( do not use Statefarm, see post #24)
will do a separate business policy on a studio in the house. So far they are not afraid of the torch.

I put some very direct questions to the agent and she is talking to the underwriters and it looks like I can be insured under the ceramic studio art insurance program. We shall see. I will let you all know how it goes.

She said different areas have somewhat different policies but I will report back on what it is for northern ca. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Lorraine

Torched Art · #16 2010-03-18, 12:47pm

I spoke to a rep from state farm, and they wouldn't invest a minute on the issue and sent me off to another agency.

If it works out for you, would you please forward me the agent's contact info?

Lorraine Chandler · #17 2010-03-18, 1:22pm

You bet I will...isn't it funny or sad actually how we can't seem to get the same answers all of the time from the same companies?!!!

Lorraine

Lorraine Chandler · #18 2010-03-19, 10:40am

Okay, Good news and just a little bad news. The good news is you can have a lampworking studio in the house and have it insured through State Farms ( Do not use state Farm see post #24 )ceramic studio criteria.

The underwriters at State Farm said they were familiar with lampworking so no probs!!

The bad news is they absolutely will not let you teach! PERIOD!!

I am a happy camper so far. I will come back later and post the costs etc.
Lorraine

Torched Art · #19 2010-03-19, 11:23am

Zoiks! This is such an effort to find a place that provides anything for our craft. Ugh!

Here is what I have found so far...

The Hartford via ISGB
$425/year this includes teaching and shows $1 mil. They have been around for 200 years so they are very financially stable. You can call Liberty Mutual, Kim in California 858-268-9400. She is at C Lee Williams and Assoc, Inc.

Stratus Insurance
$250 / year + % from your state not sure what it covers yet (if you make under 50K/yr) (It sounded to be minimal coverage, not like $1 mil)
Contact Natasha 866-395-1308
This is thru the Craft Artist Group

State Farm wouldn't talk to me, we will see what you come up with for that.

USI from the Tenessee Association for Crafters
Still no word, the Ins Rep no longer works there, website down, just frustration so far
Roomer has it around $300 per year.

This is what I have after a week and a half of emails, phone calls, faxes, and talking back and forth with 30 people. Ugh! I am still waiting on further quotes and information and details. But in a nut shell this is what I have.

I'm happy to know I can be covered for about $30 + a month.

I will post again with further information when I get it.

Lorraine Chandler · #20 2010-03-19, 11:51am

I have the Hartford (which I am dropping next week, see post #24) for my autos..I will check into that one also.

Yes! It is a rollercoaster ride! Mainly because one office says yes, one says No.

Thank-you so much for digging in with me. Maybe we can get it all figured out and get insurance for all that want it.

Lorraine

MaryAnn · #21 2010-03-19, 11:58am

Great topic, glad I stopped in!

My lampwork studio was insured with State Farm years ago. Before that I had insurance through the American Crafts Council (they might still offer it, not sure). When I first switched to State Farm they didn't have a clue what lampworking was (it was many years ago). My agent came out and took detailed pictures of my entire set-up to send off to the underwriters. At the time I had told her, if anything, it was more closely related to a metalsmith, as in jewelry store jeweler. I also told her that as long as the torch was attached to the worktable it was probably safer than a jeweler's torch which is picked up, set down, waved around, etc.

For those of you whose insurance doesn't have a clue about lampwork I suggest you might want to try the "same as a jeweler" approach. This type business is everywhere, including retail storefronts. When State Farm first suggested putting me in the ceramic/pottery heading, the price for insurance was enormous. They "assumed" that everyone in this category had huge gas-fired kilns. Thankfully it appears from what you've said they've learned a bit!

Also, you might want to take detailed pictures of your work set-up, etc. and ask your agent to submit them to the underwriters. It might help.

loribeads · #22 2010-03-19, 9:00pm

Mine is thru the ISGB and is over $900 a year! I think I'm getting reamed.

Leanne · #23 2010-03-19, 10:19pm

outside on a patio no insurance

Lorraine Chandler · #24 2010-03-20, 11:26am

Well, Apparently you can find insurance but will they pay? Will they pay without putting you through the wringer? Pam Dugger helped me to realize that most companies won't pay claims..period!. Stare Farm and The Hartford
are terrible. So I will be looking to move my insurance from The Hartford
where I have my auto inurance right now and I will NOT be using State Farm for any reason.

http://www.badfaithinsurance.org/indexdetaillist.html

Thank-you Pam. I am now looking for high ranking insurance, yes I might pay more but I'd rather be with a reliable company that has more promise of paying.

So now I am looking at the top ranked companies and I am amazed at what I am finding, the ones I thought I would use after researching them fully they are not an option any more.

I think I will go with one of the four top rated companies for home and auto and probably use ISGB like Lori and others. At least they know what we do.

Lori, I think you have chosen wisely for studio insurance...

I will report back with any New news but probably Monday after I can make some more calls.

Lorraine

Lorraine Chandler · #25 2010-03-20, 11:35am

Leanne, I tried that! Too hot and windy and buggy with skeeters in the summer, Too cold and wet and windy with skeeters in the winter, and since this is Red Bluff, California we don't have spring or fall, just hot or cold!

That was my first choice though...

Hugs
Lorraine

Torched Art · #26 2010-03-20, 8:41pm

Well darn. Hartford was top on my list. Wasn't that a buzz kill. Maybe we should start calling the "good" list.

CO_Phantom · #27 2010-03-20, 9:02pm

I have State Farm for homeowners and auto insurance. I have never had any issues with them paying any claims. I have had water damage when dishwasher exploded, and 2 roofs done (destroyed by hail).

My car had some work done when I hit a coyote. Totally covered. My pickup had a hit and run and was covered by State Farm as well. Nothing where they were totalled or anything, but each claim was around $1000 for the autos.

I have never had them not pay a claim.

I would like info on why that website (FBIC) put them on the wall of shame. I like details and specifics. Insurance companies are all about saving themselves money (just ask health insurance...), so we shouldn't be surprised.

But I just wanted to toss in I have not had any issues with State Farm and I have had them for over 10 years.

-Amy

Lorraine Chandler · #28 2010-03-20, 9:29pm

Amy, I don't have details or specifics for you about that website, you will have to ask them directly for details and specifics.

I have however found out about going to the gov. website for the state you live in and looking at the states insurance complaint ratios..Good Grief was I ever surprised when I started comparing them. I have Grange which was a good one and I have The Hartford which is a bad one. Monday I will switch my Auto to go with my Homeowners.

Not all state government websites provide the Insurance complaint ratios though. But just a look on the internet for "claims against a particular company should help you to see if you want to use them or not.

Here is a link to the Consumer Affairs website of complaints against State Farm...at least 15 pages of them..I wouldn't go near State Farm after reading a lot of the complaints and looking at their ratios.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/insur...farm_auto.html

Lorraine Chandler · #29 2010-03-21, 8:36am

Very interesting link. Scroll down to where it says Insurance News in big red letters and you will find a whole list of enlightening reading.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/insurance/

Lorraine

CO_Phantom · #30 2010-03-21, 12:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorraine Chandler

Amy, I don't have details or specifics for you about that website, you will have to ask them directly for details and specifics.

I have however found out about going to the gov. website for the state you live in and looking at the states insurance complaint ratios..Good Grief was I ever surprised when I started comparing them. I have Grange which was a good one and I have The Hartford which is a bad one. Monday I will switch my Auto to go with my Homeowners.

Not all state government websites provide the Insurance complaint ratios though. But just a look on the internet for "claims against a particular company should help you to see if you want to use them or not.

Here is a link to the Consumer Affairs website of complaints against State Farm...at least 15 pages of them..I wouldn't go near State Farm after reading a lot of the complaints and looking at their ratios.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/insur...farm_auto.html

This website had stories that made me laugh. Maybe I'm just a heifer, but I just kept thinking "how can people be so stupid!?" Like waiting 2 months to pay your premiums. Or not getting a receipt to show they are paid. There were lots of issues with those stories.

I think, for me, it helps to know your insurance agent personally. You definitely get answers to questions and additional help when necessary. I was rear-ended several years ago, and State Farm went to bat for me when the at fault party refused to turn it in to their insurance company and wanted to make payments to me. I had the unfortunate experience of totaling a car when I wasn't even driving. A guy had a heart attack while he was driving and hit my car. Anywho, his insurance wanted to claim it as an "act of God" and not pay the claim. It was ridiculous.

In everything you deal with with insurance companies, just know they are after getting the most amount of money and paying out the least amount possible. It's the way they work. So ask questions and make sure you know exactly what you are covered for. (For instance, out here in the midwest, we had a trailer house that was destroyed by water damage. Come to find out we were insured for volcano, but not for water damage...) You have to be a very savvy consumer and not expect that a general policy is going to cover your needs. You need to take the time to have a long chat with your agent to make sure your needs are being met and are in writing.

-Amy