Under 50 attempts making beads

KSH298 · #1 2013-05-19, 8:14pm

Hi,

Thanks to all for the great threads and posts, I have learned much.

I am on my fourth day of two hour sessions of lamp work. I have only two beads worth annealing IMO.

Questions-

I have read "Passing the Flame" chapter on forming a basic bead after every session trying to learn. How many beads before you start getting round or even donut ones? The easy answer is, it depends on you, but any ideas on the average, so I can determine if I am on the slow side?

The book says turn slow, but slow is subjective. I have had better luck trying to count to 15 before a full revolution. Does this sound right?

I know lamp workers use marvers to help round out beads. How do you use one in doing this? Is this cheating? Do I need to learn without this aid first?

Is there A good "Bible" video for newbies wanting to learn lampwork?

Any hints or aha moments that make round bead happen. Do you want to turn it to Round it out at the bright yellow stage, or the orange stage.

Trying hard, and will be apprecative of any help given.

Thanks,

Kim

Lorraine Chandler · #2 2013-05-19, 8:46pm

Hi there and welcome to the world of lampworking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSH298

Hi,

Thanks to all for the great threads and posts, I have learned much.

I am on my forth day of two hour sessions of lamo work. I have only two beads worth annealing IMO.

Questions-

I have read Passing the Flame after every session trying to learn. How many beads before you start getting round or even donut ones?

Donut shape is the basic shape from a simple wrap. Round beads need more than a simple wrap to accomplish. It make take you 20 beads or 1000. Some people have natural talent for lampworking some do not and have to work very hard at it.

The easy answer is, it depends on you, but any ideas on the average, so I can determine if I am on the slow side?

No easy answer except that people usually speed up with practice and experience. Some people never speed up and prefer a HH torch. They like it slow and easy.

The book says turn slow, but low is subjective. I have had better luck trying to count to 15 before a full revolution, does this sound right?

There is no right or wrong. Whatever works for you works.

I know lamp workers use marvels to help round out beads. How do you use one in doing this? Is this cheating? Do I need to learn to learn without this aid first?

Marvers are used for lots of things, the best way for you to learn to use a marver is to get one or any tool for that matter and just start pushing glass around. Then you will start to get a feel for it.

There is no such thing as cheating IMO. Tools are made for every trade or craft or art form to use. Some people say you need to learn how to make all of the shapes by hand first without tools. I say rubbish to this. I love tools, the more the better and much more fun for me.

Is there A good "Bible" video for newbies wanting to learn lampwork?

Lots of excellent videos out there and lots of excellent videos on You Tube. But actually this forum has the best of the best info and the most and is the best place to learn if you will browse and study the different forums..

Any hint or aha moments that make round bead happen. Do you want to turn it to Round it out at the bright yellow stage, or the orange stage.

Lots of hints and aha moments in the tips and techniques forum.

Trying hard, and will be apprecative of any help given.

Thanks,

Kim

KJohn · #3 2013-05-19, 8:54pm

Don't let yourself get too frustrated. Relax, and play with the glass. Find your own ways that work for you, and set goals with techniques. Remember to enjoy it. Plenty of experience and other newbies here. Feel free to come over and say "hi" in the newbie/intermediate threads we have every week.

Here is this weeks: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...=245270&page=8

losthelm · #4 2013-05-19, 8:58pm

Welcome to the forum.

It may help to find someone local that can demo their method.
Or just have a little pear play time to help with the technique.

Also what kind of torch setup are you useing?
A lot of use started with a hothead or quick fire torch.
The flame has a sweet spot that will heat the glass easier.

Good luck.

mtnglass · #5 2013-05-20, 8:17am

There are tons of wonderful videos on Youtube that may be of help.

Eileen · #6 2013-05-20, 8:29am

I agree, watching lampwork videos helped me with many things, incuding with turning speed.
Also, once the bead is hot enough, you can pull it out of the flame & keep turning it, you don't have to keep it in the flame unless you want to do a gravity swirl, etc. especially for small beads.
And I still don't get my beads all perfect (got my setup almost 2 years ago, try to torch at least a few hours a week), don't be hard on yourself. The more you do the better you'll be. I don't know if it's just me, but I still have days when I just can't get the glass to do what I want. But what a thrill when everything goes perfectly!

echeveria · #7 2013-05-20, 8:32am

You have to find the balance between hot enough and too hot. When I started, my most common problem in getting a good shape was that I thought I had to keep the bead almost soupy. Not true.

Slow means slow enough that you don't sling the glass around the mandrel with centrifical force, but fast enough so that it does not droop with gravity.

For a very long time I always had one side that was sort of fattish, that you could feel more than you could see. Practice was what helped, and observing how glass reacts with heat, movement and gravity.

I don't think any tools are cheating, but until you learn to get a gather of glass balanced around your mandrel, marvers, etc. may only make matters worse. But you will learn in the process.

bepnewt · #8 2013-05-20, 8:44am

My first few donut beads didn't have the nice dimple. I watched a few YouTube videos and saw a couple things I was doing wrong:

1) Spinning the mandrel WAY too fast. Not sure if this affected the shape, but I was definitely setting some mandrel spinning records. I'd guess the rare times I make a bead now, it does a full rotation once every 3 seconds. This is as opposed to 2+ times a second when I started.

2) I was laying on the glass too wide. I've found that until you get good at making the donuts, it's best to lay the glass thin and tall on the mandrel and melt it down to the donut shape. The finished beads on this page are what my donut beads would look like before melting them down to the donut shape:

http://www.riveroakacres.com/catalog.php?category=29

I'm not claiming this is the correct way or the best way to get the donut shape; it's just a way that worked for me.

Something else real important is keeping that mandrel parallel to the table. If it's not, the glass will slowly slide down the mandrel and mess up your nice donut's dimples. As you get better, you'll use gravity like this on purpose, but for now, I'd make sure you keep it parallel to minimize distortion.

When you get good at making the donut beads, you'll probably be laying thicker lines of glass and not have to spend a lot of time melting the disc down to a donut. When you lay the initial glass on the mandrel, it will already be close to a nice, dimpled donut.

-BEP

GlassPuppy · #9 2013-05-20, 11:59am

Looks like great advice to me, Bepnewt!

Also, watch the color of your glass as you heat it - you have much more control over the glass if it is red orange to orange, not bright orange or screaming hot yellow. Work the bead under the flame, not in it, and don't be afraid to come out of the flame. Just keep turning steadily until it cools a bit, then go back.

Learning the basics can take a long time (ask me how I know). Just relax and enjoy the journey!

Lisi · #10 2013-05-20, 3:41pm

Go on Youtube and look up "lampwork beads". By watching how others handle the mandrel and the glass, much of the mystery will be solved.

Self-taught here, and I don't think I could have done it without the help of a few good videos.

Sue in Maine · #11 2013-05-20, 3:47pm

I can't show you my first bunch of beads because they all committed suicide! Having said that, I had never seen a video or youtube. I was totally trying to figure it out from a book and I can tell ya that watching sure makes things easier. You go "aha!!!" and "sumbitch, why didn't I do that" but you keep going and eventually, it comes out a donut.

Keep practicing... the dreaded "p p p" = practice, practice, practice- until ya want to deck whoever came up with the saying "PPP."

Sue

Lisi · #12 2013-05-21, 3:02pm

Here is a recent thread where I helped a newbie by giving her tips on making the basic round donut beads. There is some good advice from others posted in this thread too.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=244824

MrsD · #13 2013-05-21, 4:58pm

Brian as summed up most of what I was going to say so I won't repeat it. The only other thing that was an "aha!" moment for me was that you don't need to have the bead in the flame to shape it. In other words, heat your glass in the flame and then take it out of the flame to make your shape. There are times when you will leave it in the flame to work it but in general I think beginners leave their glass in the flame too long & have trouble controlling the glass when it's too hot.

Hope that makes sense!

KSH298 · #14 2013-05-21, 10:50pm

Hi all,

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I promise two things in order to be more respectful of your time and talent as a group. Better proofing of my messages, and I will search the archives to try and not ask redundant questions.

I think one of my problems is that I set up the minor burner torch on an old desk that is seemingly not the right height, or comfortable at all. I am having to contort myself into a hunch back to rest my elbows on the top of the desk, or free hand everything. I am pretty sure I will prefer to sit. I saw posts helpful on the height of the work surface, and ideas on how to position the torch. I have added layers of wood to make a platform for the torch but it is still not comfortable. I have an adjustable bar stool delivered, but have not had time for the assembly. This stool will definitely require a higher work surface.

Does anyone have a mail order source for an adjustable work table that works well for lampwork. I did not see good options at Home Depot and Lowe's. I am sure they have all the supplies to make one, but I do not have a DH, or access to a table or radial arm saw

From what I read today in the archives. Four options of arm rests exist.

The creative station seems to be most discussed one. I concluded many like it, some like it only after modifying it. At least one person could never get it to work in a way that helped them and gave up on it.

Cans with bean bags on top. I saw this used in an educational video, but did not see this method discussed in the archives.

One is available from Arrow Springs that surrounds your torch and has what I think of as blue bat wings. I saw this talked about in an archived post as available, but did not see any opinions of whether it was helpful or not.

Lastly, I saw a link to an arm rest by Bearfoot Tools. They had a good video on it. If I had to pick one of the four options I think I would guess, and pick this one. But do not like to guess, returns if allowed, are such a hassle.

Any opinions or comments from lampworkers actually using one of the above options would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Kim

TJ · #15 2013-05-22, 12:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSH298

Hi all,

From what I read today in the archives. Four options of arm rests exist.

The creative station seems to be most discussed one. I concluded many like it, some like it only after modifying it. At least one person could never get it to work in a way that helped them and gave up on it.

Cans with bean bags on top. I saw this used in an educational video, but did not see this method discussed in the archives.

One is available from Arrow Springs that surrounds your torch and has what I think of as blue bat wings. I saw this talked about in an archived post as available, but did not see any opinions of whether it was helpful or not.

Lastly, I saw a link to an arm rest by Bearfoot Tools. They had a good video on it. If I had to pick one of the four options I think I would guess, and pick this one. But do not like to guess, returns if allowed, are such a hassle.

Any opinions or comments from lampworkers actually using one of the above options would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Kim

I have all my torch gear on order now to set up a studio, and I too, am wondering about armrest options. I second ya, Kim - any opinions on those Kim listed - another newbie here would love to know!

-Tami (aka TJ)

GlassPuppy · #16 2013-05-22, 3:42am

A metal table from a restaurant supply place makes a good work bench. You can often find them used...

pugmommie · #17 2013-05-22, 5:46am

I'm still trying to figure out the best position for me to be in when lampworking. Right now my workbench is tall and I stand, but I only make a few beads at a time.

Elizabeth Beads · #18 2013-05-22, 6:00am

You can get a folding metal table at Sam's and probably Walmart. Mine is a card table covered with masonite board and then covered with metal flashing. I have it all "attached" with those huge powerful binder clips. No DH needed.

I may have mentioned this in the other thread but I'll say it anyway.

Glass wants to be round.

Get it hot and then let it round up outside the flame.

Eileen · #19 2013-05-22, 7:37am

My work surface is some base kitchen cabinets (used) at each end, with a solid core door on top, so it's tall enough to stand or sit on a raised chair. I have a sheet of thin steel where I work, and large ceramic tile under my kiln & ceramic oven, etc. I shopped Habitat Restore, thrift stores, a used door store, etc. for most of it.

I have the Arrow Springs arm rest, and though I had to play with the adjustment to get it right for me, now it's perfect for my needs. I only use it when I'm sitting though, not standing.
I used to use toilet paper rolls wrapped in some silver heat resistant cloth.

clan tabby · #20 2013-05-22, 8:16am

I have a heavy plastic folding table. It has a few different height adjustments, & the one I have is plenty long enough for torch, tools, graphite pad, water can, mandrel holder, glass, more glass & lots of other crap. The top is covered with a thin slab of cement board (the part we cut off so it would fit the table is under the kiln for added protection).

It looks like this:

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/lifetim...le-6/121879.ip

I have a Creation Station, & it works pretty well. I would, however, like to try one of the Arrow Springs arm rests because I've heard good comments about them.

Eileen · #21 2013-05-22, 8:29am

I also wondered if you could raise the entire desk, or if you don't want the rest of your surface raised. They sell something that would raise it some, or maybe you could set it on cement blocks or something similar?

KSH298 · #22 2013-05-22, 8:57am

Yes, right after I posted, the option of doing this entered my mind. I should be able to round up some strong backs from the home construction site next door. The desk is old, solid and heavy, really perfect if raised. I have already added a couple burn marks to it's well used funky character. It has the original wood chair that needs a new home, and has me hating the whole thing, but I can fix this with the assembly of the seeming 100 parts of the adjustable bar chair I just got delivered. I was clearly ready to put the baby aside with the torture chair bath water.

The hard straight back chair would be a perfect discipline device for a kid, 10 minutes for the first offense. We would get in trouble for chewing gum, now you see kids cussing out their teachers!

Thanks,

Kim