Boro or soft glass?

[RubieMae]

I just took some classes and don't have a studio set up yet and I am still struggling with whether to invest in boro or soft glass. So far is seems like:
boro - harder and doesn't break as easily; can be left out of the flame longer without breaking; can use tubes for hollow beads
soft - more colors; can use goldstone/adventurine, frits and powder;, cheaper

If anyone else has some camparisons and thoughts about either glass, I would love to hear from you.

[oldschooltofu]

depends on what you wanna make??? ya know.

i always get jealous that soft is so cheap, but i really like having all the sizes from 2mm to 44mm in rod and even more in tube make the added cost worth it. there are almost as many colors in boro now, and you can pick from the different vendors for quality and color uses.

if you go big, soft is the way (furnace)

some do both, just keep your glass well labeled.

[HWCGlass]

soft: has basically been the same for 600 years.

boro: is basically being invented at this second.

By YOU.




Unless you're working with soft . . . . .

[Over the Moon]

You can use frits and powders with Boro too - and what-with the silver glass in soft, it's not always cheaper than Boro.

Then again, you are asking in the Boro room, and you've got to understand that we're all going to "try and lead you" into the dark side.....

[menty666]

I'd say boro would be less frustrating, but then again if you learn to deal with soft glass first, then boro's even more so.

I hate to let anyone head to the soft side, but for the price, and since you don't need the oxy/regulator set up, the cost of entry's cheaper.

But yes, it depends on what ultimately you want to make.

[Dasi]

I think it depends on your set up. How much O2 do you have? What type of torch are you using? How big do you want to work?

Boro needs a more powerful torch with more O2.
Soft melts on a hot head.

Also, don't forget a good ventilation system! This should be your most important purchase.

[wickedglass]

Originally Posted by RubieMae

boro - harder and doesn't break as easily; can be left out of the flame longer without breaking; can use tubes for hollow beads
soft - more colors; can use goldstone/adventurine, frits and powder;, cheaper

actually, seeing you're just starting out, let's nip this one prevalent myth and misperception right in the butt. Whoever coined the terms "soft" and "hard" glass has a lot to bloody answer for. Please feel free to check the spec sheets on relative hardness about this one, if you don't believe me ...

boro - aka hard glass - boro is called hard glass because it works stiffer in the flame. this term came about when there weren't those super hot torches around which could melt boro into a smooth soft liquid. Boro in its cold state is actually softer than soda/lime (aka "soft") glass. Boro is more resilient because in its cold state it is more elastic and able to absorb shock more effectively than soda glass.

soft glass - originally and in tech circles still correctly referred to as soda/lime glass (or just soda glass). Soda/lime glass is called soft glass because it becomes very liquid at a relatively low temperature, but in it's cold state it is harder than borosilicate. Soda/lime glass is less resilient to shock than boro because its hardness is less able to distribute shock through its mass ... it is also more brittle than boro.

as to which glass? it's up to you, both glasses have their advantages.

Soda has a lower melting point and will save you on fuel. Soda can also be worked on a torch (such as a hot head) without additional oxygen, that's also a big saving.There are torches available which use a compressed air/natural gas mix. Another bonus is the brightness the of colours which are difficult to achieve in boro. Also your kiln is at a lower temp for annealing, which saves electricity. (you can also use tubes to make hollow beads with this glass, btw)

Boro has a great array of amazing colours which need high temperatures to react and emerge (although some soda glass manufacturers are getting the hang on making similar/comparable colours). You get to maintain a nice tan all through winter. It can be more forgiving, in addition to what you already mentioned. You can make larger pieces more easily and add components ad nauseam and you can re-work it. It is possible to work on a piece, set it aside without garaging it and later go back and work on it some more. You get to hang around here, with us very nice people.

there's lots more pros for each, but my advice is to try them both and see what's more attractive and fitting to your personality. Some people prefer soda, some boro ... maybe you'll like them both equally and become ambivitreous

[ginkgoglass]

Ambivitreous, I like that!

My vote is to try a little of each and see which one you like. You may like both, or one of them will work for you better. In my case I started in soft glass, did that for about 5 minutes, and then once I tried boro I rarely touched soft again. Once in a while I'll get those dusty rods out and try it again, but boro is just the right glass for me.

[godling]

If cost is a concern, setting up for soft glass would be the way to go. Otherwise, set up for Boro ... you would be able to work with any glass this way. As for the glass itself; that's mainly a matter of finances and preference. Take your time and do some research. Learn as much as you can about as much as you can, and hope you don't end up regretting your decision later.

[BellaBean]

I took a class and learned boro first. But when I got my own equipment it was cheaper to start with soft glass (on a hothead). I work both now. I prefer boro but I think I learned more about heat control from working with soft glass.

[Over the Moon]

eta: We have cookies...........

[e. mort]

I think you learn better control if you start with soft. Plus, if you want to be able to reproduce a piece and get the colors the same each time, then soft is better. Plus, although there are a lot of nice boro murrini out there, I personaly don't think they compare to what you can do with soft glass. Plus it is cheaper, and you can use a less expensive torch and get awesome results. Plus....

All that being said, I work with boro exclusively now. However, I am glad I started out with soft.

[patienthand]

I agree with others, it depends a LOT of what you want to make. For beads, I prefer soft glass because of the wonderful bright color palette. For blown work, I go either way, boro of soft glass, and for sculptural work boro is far easier if you want to make anything of size.

Its not a matter of one glass being better than another, each COE has its own properties, advantages and disadvantages. I pick the glass I use according the the item I want to make.

Enjoy your journey, it all tons of fun, and its all glass.

Candice

[RubieMae]

Thanks for all your wonderful replies. All the classes I have taken have been with boro, but I am taking a moretti bead class at the end of the month. If I understand correctly the boro is harder and less likely to break, so I could use the boro for making buttons. The torch will be no problem as I just ordered a scorpion. I may wind up using both glasses, I will just have to keep them well marked so I don't get them mixed up.

[Cosmo]

A lot of people talk about how borosilicate is more expensive than soft glass. Have any of you priced the 104 silver glasses lately? Granted, regular colors are cheaper, but when is the last time you saw someone post some soft glass that wasn't using some silver glass in it?

[wickedglass]

Originally Posted by RubieMae

If I understand correctly the boro is harder

Hehe, I hope there's a typo in there somewhere...

You can use both glasses just fine for buttons.

[wickedglass]

Originally Posted by RubieMae

If I understand correctly the boro is harder

Hehe, I hope there's a typo in there somewhere...

You can use both glasses just fine for buttons.

[BeadBlossoms]

The cookies cinched it for me - I'm gonna try boro!

[Tanner Studios]

Both would be the best choice. I love Boro! But for me soft glass sells better then Boro. Even though I'm making the best beads now with boro. Also if you want to use a press. Boro can be a bit tricky and limiting. But when you hit the mark, well its better then chocolate!

Keep your mind open and explore. The journey is the fun part.
Scott

[Dasi]

People say boro is more expensive, and it is in rod form. But sometimes I think it is cheaper to make boro pendants then to make beads in soft.

The boro clear is very, very cheap and you only need a little color/ frit or both to make some nice pendants. I think sometimes I have much less cost in a boro pendant with a clear lens then into a bead the same size. It just depends on how you use your boro color..... Just a thought......

[Alaska]

Looking around the net, North Star boro color rod goes for $26 to $45 per pound depending on quantity purchased and supplier. Some offer better deals than others. Clear Simax ranges from $3.50 to $8 per pound again depending on size, tube vs rod, number of boxes purchased, etc.

Many boro colors can be mixed down with clear to decrease the overall cost of color and yet achieve some most interesting effects.

[HWCGlass]

Boro is more expensive for many reasons that go beyond just the cost of the glass.

But, dude, it's boro and not soft glass.

Seriously. You want to end up like this guy?



I MEAN COME ON!!

^^^^^ THAT is your brain on 104

[menty666]

Isn't that Loren Stump? And if so, sure!

Originally Posted by HWCGlass

Boro is more expensive for many reasons that go beyond just the cost of the glass.

But, dude, it's boro and not soft glass.

Seriously. You want to end up like this guy?



I MEAN COME ON!!

^^^^^ THAT is your brain on 104

[HWCGlass]

Yup. That is Loren; one of the finest lampworkers glass has ever seen in my view.

Guy has huffed so much 104 that he's half bead lady, though.

The pic post was a joke. Loren needs a few rib pokes. Helps loosen up all the beef jerky.

[menty666]

Originally Posted by HWCGlass

Guy has huffed so much 104 that he's half bead lady, though.

LOL

[AlivELampworK]

Originally Posted by oldschooltofu

depends on what you wanna make??? ya know.

i always get jealous that soft is so cheap, but i really like having all the sizes from 2mm to 44mm in rod and even more in tube make the added cost worth it. there are almost as many colors in boro now, and you can pick from the different vendors for quality and color uses.

if you go big, soft is the way (furnace)

some do both, just keep your glass well labeled.

i don't think thats necessarily the case. there are some folks that do HUGE boro work. and personally, i like it more than the stereotypical furnace work. but its all a matter of preference and what you really want to get yourself into.

Originally Posted by HWCGlass

Yup. That is Loren; one of the finest lampworkers glass has ever seen in my view.

Guy has huffed so much 104 that he's half bead lady, though.

The pic post was a joke. Loren needs a few rib pokes. Helps loosen up all the beef jerky.

oh my goodness. that was the funniest thing i have ever read on LE.

[RubieMae]

You guys are just too funny! I am getting ready to order my first glass and it is boro, so I will be practicing with it. I might still get some soft later. As soon as my torch gets here I will be ready to play.

[Oh Honey]

+1 on this description. And if you buy seconds / odds on sale you can get boro color for $15 lb about anytime you want. I bought 150 lbs of boro seconds for $5 a lb so it's not more expensive if you shop it right.

My favorite boro quote was I like to relax when I'm working glass. I can do that with boro. I like to go big but with detail and the detail caused cracking and trouble all the time with soft glass.

Originally Posted by ginkgoglass

Ambivitreous, I like that!

My vote is to try a little of each and see which one you like. You may like both, or one of them will work for you better. In my case I started in soft glass, did that for about 5 minutes, and then once I tried boro I rarely touched soft again. Once in a while I'll get those dusty rods out and try it again, but boro is just the right glass for me.