Mini CC Flame Flew Backwards & Singed Arm - WHY?

[Palestrina]

Yesterday was the first day for me to light my used Mini CC torch. I downloaded and printed instructions from 2 different threads on another forum that were written by Dale M. They were very clear and I followed step by step on checking for leaks, opening the tank valves, the regulators, and bleeding the lines. I bled the lines prior to setting the regulators to the correct psi for each tank and lighting the torch. However, when I opened the propane on the torch and used my striker to light it, the propane flame flew backwards towards the knobs and hose connections and singed the hair on my hand and arm!! There was a huge "whoosh"! Now I pretty much always know why something has happened, but I'm stumped here. There was no gas in the room, I let it all leave the room way before lighting the torch. The only thing I can think of is that maybe there was something on the torch? I need help with this... I'm afraid to light it today. Thanks!

[pam]

Hi Kimberley, Here are a few things to check and a different way of lighting your torch that may help for this initial period until you are more comfortable with your torch.

Here is what it sounds like might have happened, and you will know better than us whether it could have happened or not. When you turned on your propane, how long was it before you got an actual spark that lit the gas? I am not fond of strikers myself, as I can never seem to make them work correctly. I use those long wood matches. I light the match, hold it under the face of the torch, and turn on the propane a very little bit. The flame should ignite and you can then increase the size flame you desire.

Also, do you have a window open on the side or in front of your torch, or a fan pulling air in back of you? It's possible that the propane drifted with the air currents and came back over the torch.

One more possibility is that the torch itself is defective and has a leak somewhere that caused the flame to go backwards. You are the only one that can determine what happened. If you think it may be the torch, then turn on the propane at the tank and sniff to see if you smell the propane. If you don't then you can try to light it again, but I definitely would use a match so that all the propane fumes do not fill the air before you get the striker to work.

So much for my suggestions. I hope something works for you.

[Sue in Maine]

This happens to me if I turn the propane knob too much. You only want it on a slight little bit. Then light it. If I do it right, I get a small steady flame. If I open it too much, and the striker takes a second to get there, then all the fuel puffs into flame and it does blow back at me. Yep, cost me hairs on my hands too.

Sue
Edited to add: I am on a mini cc too.

[Palestrina]

Originally Posted by pam

Hi Kimberley, Here are a few things to check and a different way of lighting your torch that may help for this initial period until you are more comfortable with your torch.

Here is what it sounds like might have happened, and you will know better than us whether it could have happened or not. When you turned on your propane, how long was it before you got an actual spark that lit the gas? I am not fond of strikers myself, as I can never seem to make them work correctly. I use those long wood matches. I light the match, hold it under the face of the torch, and turn on the propane a very little bit. The flame should ignite and you can then increase the size flame you desire.
It was only 2 srtikes that were very quick, "strike, strike!". But I think the match idea is a good one. I only turned the propane on a very small turn and already had the striker just above/in front of the face of the torch.

Also, do you have a window open on the side or in front of your torch, or a fan pulling air in back of you? It's possible that the propane drifted with the air currents and came back over the torch.
No, I don't have a window or a fan, and my ventilation was off. It's directly in front of and above the table so it would be pulling the propane up and out very quickly. Maybe I should have had it on?

One more possibility is that the torch itself is defective and has a leak somewhere that caused the flame to go backwards. You are the only one that can determine what happened. If you think it may be the torch, then turn on the propane at the tank and sniff to see if you smell the propane. If you don't then you can try to light it again, but I definitely would use a match so that all the propane fumes do not fill the air before you get the striker to work.
I'm pretty good at getting the striker to work and I usually get it one shot, I've been using it for 6 months. But I think I'm going to try the matches. I have read a million times how to do it so I'll give that a shot. Also, I will check for leaks again, esp. on the torch and at the hose connections. I'm thinking that if there was a leak, the flames may have continued to burn at the back of the torch, rather than just the flash I got.

So much for my suggestions. I hope something works for you.

Thank you so much for repying. Your suggestions do help, everything does. I really appreciate it.

[Palestrina]

Originally Posted by Sue in Maine

This happens to me if I turn the propane knob too much. You only want it on a slight little bit. Then light it. If I do it right, I get a small steady flame. If I open it too much, and the striker takes a second to get there, then all the fuel puffs into flame and it does blow back at me. Yep, cost me hairs on my hands too.

Sue
Edited to add: I am on a mini cc too.

Sue, you made me feel so much better! I'm sure the striker is the issue then. I even opened my knobs and then closed them before opening the tanks so that I would know that they were only finger-tight and I wouldn't have to use much strength to open them. If they were tight it would have cause me to open them more than needed. But I have a feeling I opened the propane too much even though I thought I only opened it a tiny bit.
So Sue, you still use the striker? You really did make me feel better. Did I want to open the oxy after that happened? Hell No! But I did and I had fun making beads.

[Palestrina]

I have another question... I need to know what the flame is supposed to look like. I'm sure I had a neutral flame, I really am. But I'd feel better if I saw some pics of all 3 flames. I couldn't get the copper green test bead I made to reduce! How rediculous is that??!
Also, Sue in Maine, how much do you open your knobs and what are your regulators set to? Are you on a concentrator or a tank?

(Ok, so I have more than 1 question.)

[Dale M.]

One possible senecio may be that you held strike in front of torch tip and caused a cloud of propane gas to boil out of striker and caused a turbulent cloud of gas over torch area and when it ignited, it causes your arm to be singes... Its kind of like putting your hand in front of garden hose... IF there is a steady stream of water going away from you, all is good, if you place hand in front of hose it will "back splatter" all over you... The gas stream out of torch much the same type of condition.

To use a striker safely you come up under gas stream and hold striker at about a 30 degree angle just below gas stream and then strike....

A neutral flame will look pretty much like picture below....



Image courtesy of Cosmo

A reducing flame will have a lot more yellow in tips (candles) and will be more soft and feathery...

A oxidising flame will have harder more defined tips (candles) and will stand off torch face a bit more and usually will tend to have a little bit of hissing noise...

Dale

[Palestrina]

Originally Posted by Dale M.

One possible senecio may be that you held strike in front of torch tip and caused a cloud of propane gas to boil out of striker and caused a turbulent cloud of gas over torch area and when it ignited, it causes your arm to be singes... Its kind of like putting your hand in front of garden hose... IF there is a steady stream ow water going away from you, all is good, if you place hand in front of hose it will "back splatter" all over you... The gas stream out of torch much the same type of condition.

To use a striker safely you come up under gas stream and hold striker at about a 30 degree angle just below gas stream and then strike....

Dale

You know Dale, I thought of this. I do think I did that. I think the gas hit the striker and bounced right back off and onto my arm.
Btw, I printed your instructions from another thread about all of this... regulators, lighting the torch, setting up the whole thing, bleeding the lines, shutting it down... You're a god send. I was not lighting it until I found step by step instructions and I never thought I would. I knew how to do it but refused until I saw it in print. Thank you so much!

[MikeAurelius]

What I teach my students to do is to hold the striker over the top of the torch, so the cup of the striker is facing down towards the bench. This prevents a flash back to the user. If you don't get a light after 3 or 4 quick squeezes of the striker, turn off the torch, wait a couple of minutes, then try again.

Never hold the cup so it faces you in front of the torch - this is just asking for a flash back.

[Palestrina]

Originally Posted by MikeAurelius

What I teach my students to do is to hold the striker over the top of the torch, so the cup of the striker is facing down towards the bench. This prevents a flash back to the user. If you don't get a light after 3 or 4 quick squeezes of the striker, turn off the torch, wait a couple of minutes, then try again.

Never hold the cup so it faces you in front of the torch - this is just asking for a flash back.

I was aiming for this, but I think I stopped paying attention to my hand and turned it when I actually struck it. I was paying attention to the knob instead so I didn't turn it on too much.
Do you think it could be anything else, or was it most likely this stupid stiker thing?

Edited: I didn't think to hold it under the face like Dale mentioned, though.

[Palestrina]

Should I just use matches?

[Sue in Maine]

I have an ocy con and it's set at 5.

My propane tank pressure is set at 5-- that was my Maine Ocy safety guru's advice and it works well. I also DO have a flashback arrester in the fuel line at the tank.

Hmmm, I do have the striker facing me. I'll have to try it at a different angle or use long fireplace matches.

Whatever you do, DO NOT use a butane lighter! That's an accident waiting to happen.

Sue

[Palestrina]

Originally Posted by Sue in Maine

I have an ocy con and it's set at 5.

My propane tank pressure is set at 5-- that was my Maine Ocy safety guru's advice and it works well. I also DO have a flashback arrester in the fuel line at the tank.

Hmmm, I do have the striker facing me. I'll have to try it at a different angle or use long fireplace matches.

Whatever you do, DO NOT use a butane lighter! That's an accident waiting to happen.

Sue

Oh No! I would never use a lighter. Did you see my other question to you above, btw? How much do you turn your knobs? Thanks!

[Palestrina]

Dale, I just saw your pic. Thanks for that. I have seen it before. That's what my flame looks like. The reducing flame had a center yellow candle about 2 inches long, blue on the outside, bushy. When I waved the bead throught the tip of that candle, the glass started to reduce and then went away. I kept playing with the flame and it would either not reduce, go away, or turn black. What the heck am I doing wrong? I got rubino to reduce but it was very dull and ugly.

[Dale M.]

Matches cause another safety issue... If you have box of matches on work table, then it is hazard because a hot glass shard can cause it to ignite....

A safety alternative may be a PIEZOELECTRIC lighter. As you push down the button on striker if causes a electrical sparkto be emitted at tip to ignite fuel...

Piezoelectric lighter can usually be found in camping supply places...



http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/pro...sp?prod=518522



Dale

[Palestrina]

Does that lighter actually light with a flame? Do you just push the button to make the spark? Is there butane in it? Or is is just a spark? Dale, you're so wonderful. Thanks!

Edit: Sorry, I just got the electric thing! Duh!