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Jelveh Designs - Glass Beads Torched One-by-One

Beads of Courage


 
  #31  
Old 2009-08-09, 6:18am
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Originally Posted by shawnette View Post
I picked up one at Menard's when I was in Indiana a couple of weeks ago. It was only $15, so I thought I'd try it out to see how it compared to a HH since it looks exactly the same. There were 2 versions; The one like Dale posted and one with a smaller flame. I bought the one that with the smaller flame but I haven't had a chance to to hook it up, yet.
Hi Shawnette,

Did you ever determine which HH Torch you prefer?
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  #32  
Old 2009-08-09, 7:51am
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Well, I may be in a vast minority here, but I started out with a HotHead a year ago and loved it. Then this year it went wonkly on me, started shooting flames out the air holes. I tried everyone's suggestions but nothing worked. This model did not have any replacement parts so that was out of the question. I ordered another one, but in the meantime I picked up a MagHead at Menards. It worked great

When the new HH arrived, I dutifully hooked it up and torched. When I turned down the flame it would go out. I could not get the adjustment to hold a short flame without killing it.

So the HH is back in the glass cabinet and I'm back on the Mag Head. I can adjust it down to a very small flame without killing it. I work it with a bulk tank of proplyene and it's working very well for me. Your mileage may vary.
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  #33  
Old 2009-08-09, 8:07am
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Bottom line is: what works for you....and fits your pocket book
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  #34  
Old 2009-08-09, 11:30am
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Originally Posted by blr2449 View Post
Well, I may be in a vast minority here, but I started out with a HotHead a year ago and loved it. Then this year it went wonkly on me, started shooting flames out the air holes. I tried everyone's suggestions but nothing worked. This model did not have any replacement parts so that was out of the question. I ordered another one, but in the meantime I picked up a MagHead at Menards. It worked great

When the new HH arrived, I dutifully hooked it up and torched. When I turned down the flame it would go out. I could not get the adjustment to hold a short flame without killing it.

So the HH is back in the glass cabinet and I'm back on the Mag Head. I can adjust it down to a very small flame without killing it. I work it with a bulk tank of proplyene and it's working very well for me. Your mileage may vary.
Wonderful to hear your story. Is proplyene the same as propane?

I work with a 5 gallon tank of propane. Could I use that with a MagHead? Where would I get the Maghead from?
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  #35  
Old 2009-08-09, 12:08pm
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Originally Posted by Fine Folly Glassworks View Post
Is there a new HH Torch that is of high quality (and where can I get it) - for example not shutting off without warning, not flaring as you turn it down?

If I were as concerned as you about my torch being unreliable/unpredictable, I certainly would not be using a bulk propane tank with it and I definitely would not have said bulk tank sitting next to me.
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  #36  
Old 2009-08-09, 12:42pm
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If I were as concerned as you about my torch being unreliable/unpredictable, I certainly would not be using a bulk propane tank with it and I definitely would not have said bulk tank sitting next to me.
I understand your point but safety isn't the issue, the torch shutting off or flaring as I turn it lower is. It doesn't leak.

I have a regulation/RV quality gas hose on it and the propane tank is new. Thank you for the concern.
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  #37  
Old 2009-08-09, 12:44pm
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I think she is worried about a flashback if it is randomly shutting off, do you have a flashback arrestor?
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  #38  
Old 2009-08-09, 12:53pm
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Originally Posted by jamie lynne View Post
I think she is worried about a flashback if it is randomly shutting off, do you have a flashback arrestor?
No, thank you, I didn't know I needed one for a HH and a propane tank.
Where would I install it between the torch and tank?
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  #39  
Old 2009-08-09, 1:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fine Folly Glassworks View Post
No, thank you, I didn't know I needed one for a HH and a propane tank.
Where would I install it between the torch and tank?
Probably between the torch and the hose. You can take your torch into a welding shop and they should be able to set you up with what you need.

Also, at the very least, i hope you store your propane outside, bringing it in for torch sessions only. I would suggest getting a longer hose and leaving the tank outside. (Mine are ouside and I run the hose through a window when I torch.)
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  #40  
Old 2009-08-09, 1:10pm
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I have mine installed at the tank. That is where the BF told me to put it. But someone else may have different thoughts. I think when you are workin on a smaller tank like the one pounders that a lot of people use it isn't an issue, but when you have 25 pounds of propane sitting next to you and a fairly large flame that is sometimes unpredictable, I would say to be on the safe side and put one on. IMHO. 25 pounds of propane+flashback= big boom if something goes wrong.
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  #41  
Old 2009-08-09, 1:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fine Folly Glassworks View Post
I understand your point but safety isn't the issue, the torch shutting off or flaring as I turn it lower is. It doesn't leak.

I have a regulation/RV quality gas hose on it and the propane tank is new. Thank you for the concern.
You're welcome.

BTW, a regulation/RV quality hose and new propane tank is great ... for an RV. It is not what the Hot Head was designed to run with. The Hot Head is designed to run on one pound fuel cannisters.

Further, having a bulk propane tank inside is not only foolish, it is against code in just about every place I have ever heard of except for some commercial locations. And, I'm talking about it merely being kept inside - not next to the torch!

Are you working from a home studio or a commercial location that has the fire marshall's approval for storing bulk propane indoors? Do you have a propane drain installed? Is your tank sitting on a dolly, allowing for expedient removal?

And, even if all that is in order, you are still working with it next to you and you think that that is safe?!?

If you are working from your home, do you also store the bulk tank for your barbeque grill inside? I hope you have signs clearly posted for firefighters in the event they need to enter your home. Oh, and if you should ever have a fire, your insurance may be able to get out of paying your claim because of this - even if it is not involved in the fire and certainly not if it is. Well, it might not matter, either way, because if something went wrong, the tank is sitting right next to you and you might not be in any condition to collect any payouts.


You can certainly do whatever you feel like doing, but please keep in mind that a lot of beginners frequent this site and when they see a pictures of an unsafe set-up such as yours, they might think that it is perfectly fine when it is not. It is not safe, even under the best of circumstances. But here you are talking about a torch that is behaving erratically and showing off a picture of a set-up showing a propane tank sitting next to your torching area. Your picture is not only of an unsafe set-up, it is irresponsible.

I'm sorry and I know that you will probably be mad at me for what I posted, but I would rather keep people safe than let them see what you posted and think that it is safe. I'm not here to win any popularity contests.
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  #42  
Old 2009-08-09, 1:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fine Folly Glassworks View Post
Wonderful to hear your story. Is proplyene the same as propane?

I work with a 5 gallon tank of propane. Could I use that with a MagHead? Where would I get the Maghead from?
Propylene is the major gas of MAPP/MapPro, it is not the same a propane. I buy a 7# tank form a local welding gas supplier. I got the MagPro torch head from Menards, which I do not think is nationwide, but Lowe's or Home Depot may carry them.
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  #43  
Old 2009-08-09, 1:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunamoonshadow View Post
the fact that the "new" hotheads aren't adjustable was the biggest reason I wanted to upgrade (seriously!)--I knew someday the "old" ones would be all gone!
New HHs can be modified to be adjustable. All it requires is a couple of rivets in the air holes.
I've used a HH as my only torch for over 6 years. There's nothing I want to do that I can't do on it and I plan to keep using it in the foreseeable future.
It's a great tool that gets a bad rap, often from people who've never even used it!
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  #44  
Old 2009-08-09, 1:38pm
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If it were a matter of keeping my tank inside or not torching at all, I'd not torch.
A tank inside is an accident waiting to happen. A very bad accident.
These tanks have a release valve that can release gas directly into your home.
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  #45  
Old 2009-08-09, 5:50pm
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Thank you all for the exhortation. I have removed the picture to protect the innocent.

I am glad I posted it to get your points.
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  #46  
Old 2009-08-09, 6:01pm
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Anyone? I would like to hear more of where to purchase, model #, etc. for a safe and dedicated flashback arrestor for use with a Hot Head Torch, a proper Hot Head Bulk Hose and a 25 lb. BBQ Propane Tank. Please?

If this is not going to affect my torch I would definitely invest in that - RIGHT NOW!

Appreciate any advice, links, etc.

De
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  #47  
Old 2009-08-09, 6:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly View Post
New HHs can be modified to be adjustable. All it requires is a couple of rivets in the air holes.
I've used a HH as my only torch for over 6 years. There's nothing I want to do that I can't do on it and I plan to keep using it in the foreseeable future.
It's a great tool that gets a bad rap, often from people who've never even used it!
But why would I pay $30-something for a torch I had to modify to work correctly?
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  #48  
Old 2009-08-09, 6:16pm
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But I'd like to know, Holly, how to do the "rivet" mod...?

De
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  #49  
Old 2009-08-09, 6:21pm
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The HH works exactly as it's supposed to work. The new design makes for a hotter cleaner flame that is non-adjustable. An adjustable flame really isn't needed if you know how to place your bead in the flame.
The modification is for folks who are used to the old adjustable HH.
$30 for a torch is an incredible deal if you compare it to other lampworking torches.
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  #50  
Old 2009-08-09, 6:21pm
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Oh, and Tammy (or anybody!) I would like to know where I could have my Hot Head "serviced"? Mine, which I've had for 3 years now, seems to be "smoking up" and sooting all my clear glass, no matter what I try! I changed gases, tried different areas of the flame, etc. It was brought to my attention yesterday (doink! Thank you Reenie!) that it might be my HOT HEAD! I was able to try another (used, but apparently in better shape than mine!) Hot Head last night and BINGO, I think it's my darn old Hot Head that's making my clear get ugly! The second I tried the "temporary replacement", my clear stayed CLEAR!

I'd love to keep my old work horse if all it needs is a re-ferb! Any advice?

De
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  #51  
Old 2009-08-09, 6:22pm
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But I'd like to know, Holly, how to do the "rivet" mod...?

De
When I taught a class at Sarah's studio they had little rivets that were placed in the holes. I had my own old model so I didn't use them.
I'll check to see if I can find where they got them and post here.
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Old 2009-08-09, 6:23pm
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Originally Posted by theglasszone View Post
Oh, and Tammy (or anybody!) I would like to know where I could have my Hot Head "serviced"? Mine, which I've had for 3 years now, seems to be "smoking up" and sooting all my clear glass, no matter what I try! I changed gases, tried different areas of the flame, etc. It was brought to my attention yesterday (doink! Thank you Reenie!) that it might be my HOT HEAD! I was able to try another (used, but apparently in better shape than mine!) Hot Head last night and BINGO, I think it's my darn Hot Head that's making my clear get ugly!

I'd love to keep my old work horse if all it needs is a re-ferb! Any advice?

De
Send it to Sarah at http://www.hotheadsource.com/index.html
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  #53  
Old 2009-08-09, 6:28pm
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I think these are similar to the rivets I saw being used:
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...qSvq_vLa.S.nDA

You might ask Sarah about them if you get in touch with her about the torch.
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  #54  
Old 2009-08-10, 12:53am
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Thank you Holly!

De
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Old 2009-08-10, 1:21am
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When i was on my hothead I never used the 1lb canisters. Went through them too quickly and couldn't get all the gas out of them before they'd freeze. You can get the 7 lb canisters for them and they work well. You just need to go to an RV shop for the hose for them. Never leaked gas, never omitted gas when valve was shut off.
I may have not been "to code" and I don't want to say that it's 100% Safe but how many times do we ever hear of a bbq tank just blowing up for no reason???
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  #56  
Old 2009-08-10, 4:58am
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Thank you Holly!

De
De,

Would you let me/us know what you find out about the arrester and the rivets and their placement? Also what Sarah recommends with them if you ask her.

I would like to make the same changes.

Many thanks!
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  #57  
Old 2009-08-10, 5:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly View Post
When I taught a class at Sarah's studio they had little rivets that were placed in the holes. I had my own old model so I didn't use them.
I'll check to see if I can find where they got them and post here.

Can you speak more about how and where to put the rivets in? Do they allow you to create a more pointed and low flame?
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  #58  
Old 2009-08-10, 6:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reenie View Post
When i was on my hothead I never used the 1lb canisters. Went through them too quickly and couldn't get all the gas out of them before they'd freeze. You can get the 7 lb canisters for them and they work well. You just need to go to an RV shop for the hose for them. Never leaked gas, never omitted gas when valve was shut off.
I may have not been "to code" and I don't want to say that it's 100% Safe but how many times do we ever hear of a bbq tank just blowing up for no reason???
Did you ever see the pictures that Milke Aurelius posted (I think it was on Wet Canvas) when he had a Hot Head failure in his studio? He caught a lot of flack for taking the time to take pictures, but he wanted to document it and he had the situation (pretty much) under control.

Oh my goodness. Out of nowhere, the torch or the little valve on the one pound cannister failed (I can't remember which) and there was fire shooting out of places where fire should never be shooting out of and there was nothing stopping it. He had to carry it outside to let it burn out (fortunately, he had the state of mind and a safe place for that). Could you imagine that happening while attached to a larger source of fuel? Here is a video of what just five pounds of ignited propane looks like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noMn8Zh-x_I
The guy shot his tank to get the explosion, but really, any ignited leak/failure could do the same thing. Would you want this happening near you?

BTW, I never had a single pound cannister freeze on me. I don't know if it was because I turned my HH off after each bead, or how I ran it, or what. But, several people say that using a warm bath of water around the cannister helps.



Just last night, someone posted in the bathroom about her bulk propane tank venting (see Holly's post above where she mentions the release valve). Could you imagine something like that happening indoors? Indoors, where the gas could easily find its way to an ignition source (maybe the running torch itself if you're not quick enough to shut it off). Just someone flipping on a lightswitch or dialing a telephone could cause ignition.


It's not so much that propane tanks are extremely likely to explode. It's the "what if something fails" that you have to consider. If you have a tank next to you and it fails (not terribly likely, but certainly possible and more likely given certain circumstances), the results can be catastrophic.
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  #59  
Old 2009-08-10, 7:21am
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To add more fuel to fire so to speak......

To clean a hot head (older style) get information here...

http://www.cauldroncreations.com/hotheadinfo.html

For newer style HH there is NO ORIFICE to clean, the best you can hope for is to soak head in non oily solvent like acetone or lacquer thinner Maybe wash in soap and water. Dry out and hope for best......

As for propane tanks... OUTSIDE PERIOD....... In almost every state, county. city in US it is illegal to store anything larger than a 1 pound container in residence... Some COMMERCIAL installations are exempt under certain conditions.... There is a 99.44/100 percent chance your installation is not one that is exempt.

As for long hoses, if its commercially made and uses hose material that is manufactured for LPG use and rated at about 300psi or greater it is probably ok to use such hoses.... Any hose that in commercially made is probably as safe and any other thing we do today but there are risk involved.... Yes there is a documented case on LE where there was a hose failure.. Be aware...

Here is little experiment with hose...

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...php?f=21&t=223

As for torches being designed for hose use... Does not matter torch is designed to mate to "connector"... IF hose has same connector as tank there are same risks at connection.....

Long hoses and connections are available commercially and through RV and camping supplies the come in lengths up to 20 feet, so "a short hose is all I could find" argument is not a valid one.... Glass suppliers seem to think short hoses are all you need, they are wrong and are not doing you, or industry any favors.... You need to go outside the box.....

As far as I know there is no flashback arrestor available that operates properly at propane tank pressures (approximately 125 psi), somebody please tell me I am wrong....

Riveting a hot head to make adjustable is in conflict with the design criteria the every body says CJ went to great lengths to design into HH... Riveting HH will make it operate more fuel rich therefor it will be more reducing and be less desirable in most glass work........

NO you can not plumb high pressure propane into studio with metal piping EVER....... Nation safety codes restrict pressures to 10psi maximum in most cases

This document was originally written years ago (2005), and has been continually updated, and still holds up today.......

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...c.php?f=12&t=7

Dale
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San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal

Last edited by Dale M.; 2009-08-10 at 9:03am.
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Old 2009-08-10, 7:52am
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pam pam is offline
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Great work, Dale. Thanks for all the info. I actually don't believe CJ owns the Hot Head anymore, but it was a great torch. However, the pressures involved mean it is more dangerous in many ways than a torch that uses regulated gas. What you do in your own studio is your business, but in making decisions regarding keeping your propane inside, which is highly illegal under most circumstances, just make sure you are fully informed about the risks involved.
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