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  #61  
Old 2006-03-21, 6:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
That unit looks cool, now get one down here. LOL

Kimberly, you have to understand that my full tilt and Pam's full tilt are two totally different things. I can guarantee you don't use 50% of what a triple mix is capable of on bottles with soft glass. Run yours on bottles and actually do some bigger boro work. See what a GTT can really do before you brag about how your concentrator runs one.
Here, read this, again.
Quote:
I can run my Cheetah with one Integra 10. The Integra 10 is only 9psi at 10 lpm, so it is not running it at full capacity. However, it is enough to work soft glass and small to medium boro easily.
I made it very clear that I am not running the Cheetah at full capacity. I was hardly bragging. That's your department. I simply stated the capacity of my concentrator and what I can work with it. No need to get defensive.

I mentioned Pam and her OG20 because she had previously posted her results and they were very good.

Anyway, the reason I posted anything at all was because you said that your Cheetah did not have the needed "push" on the two M-20s. Push comes from pressure. Well, 20 psi should be plenty of pressure to not only run the Cheetah, but get top end out of it. Afterall, the manufacturer recommends about 15psi oxygen for the Cheetah. More pressure does not equal better performance. A torch can only do so much before the theory of diminishing returns kicks in. Too much oxygen will cool your flame. It's a balance.

Now, if your purity is not good, then push will not be enough to drive that heat into the glass. You have to have the heat to begin with and good heat comes from pure oxygen. That is why I asked if you had your units tested for purity at those higher pressures (you said earlier that you were going to do that). If you gain pressure, but lose purity, you will be spinning your wheels.

Are you able to drive the flame off the face of the torch? Does it ever blow the flame out?
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  #62  
Old 2006-03-23, 12:42pm
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Well Deanna did a pretty good job of explaining our problems with our M20s on the other post. Basically we're on our 3rd unit in 3 months. Hopefully 3rd time will be the charm.

But I do have some more fundimental concerns with these units:

1. We've had the opportunity to work with a number of concentrators. They all have small pop out fuses to protect the units from heat, humidity, weird electrical current, etc. These units don't have this part. I'm wondering how much of the unit failures can be tracked to the lack of this pretty inexpensive part.

2. The numbers aren't matching up. This is ABR's discribtion:
http://www.dichroicimagery.com/produ...oducts_id=3297
The paperwork we got with the unit (3rd unit, the first two had NO paperwork) says: "Oxygen Concentration= 89+/- 4% @1-8
75+/- 4% @8-10
Operating pressure=16-20 Psig
75% seems really low to me on purity. If I would have known that I wouldn't have bought it. Sure, you can run a torch on that, but you have to turn the flame way down. What's the point in that?

3. These aren't really 10 lpm units. Again from the unit paperwork:
"NOTE: Running the unit at highter flow setting for extended periods may cause some flxuation in the flow." This is an understatement as the flame fluxuates from oxidation to reduction every 8 seconds. Makes it a little hard to work.
"If you need to run the flow at the highest setting, it is best lower the flow often to maintain higher levels of purity. For example, if you are using an M20 at a flow setting of 10, drop the flow back to 8 for a few minutes to allow the unit to build purity." The marble I made yesterday took 3 hours. I couldn't really back off the oxygen "often" durring that time.

I've been running ours at 7 1/2-8 with not much trouble, but I do need to keep the propane well down. I'm also scared to try 8-10 lpm as the last two units DIED at those settings. I also get what looks like fuming on my clear (yes, morretti clear) even at 8. It shows up then burns off as the glass reaches full melt. I'm not sure, but I suspect the lower ox. purity is causing this. Could be wrong on this one, but it is strange.

We're making it work. Jerry, Jack and Paul have all been very helpful. And I do see a serious need for a 10 lpm concentrator for under $1,000. But I'd have been much better off getting a second Devibillos (sp?). Our last one ran at 5 lpm at 10 psi for 6 years with no problems. Oh the pop out fuse popped out on occation (just let her cool down, pop it in and away ya go). But that machine was rock solid. Unfortunatly space and amps won't allow multiple consys at this time. Oh and we're using a barracuda torch. Deanna usually just uses the inner flame, I use both.

Peace,
Greg
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Last edited by CD Lampwork; 2006-03-23 at 12:49pm.
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  #63  
Old 2006-03-23, 1:11pm
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Thanks for sharing your experience Greg... I know you guys have been frustrated to say the least. I got the M-20's to run a Cuda also. I knew before going into it, that I wanted to run them at 7.5-8, to keep the purity up. The Cuda specs call for 20 PSI and a max usage of 1192 LPH (Almost 20 LPM). That is with the knobs wide open and you really don't need the torch to be full tilt. The 15 LPM at good purity is what I was banking on working and it does. Mine doesn't "breath" at all at these settings. It's almost a perfect match on TWO M-20's. One M-20 is just not enough even by the specs to run that torch. I know you guys are limited on what you can plug in... that really sux. I wish there was a single unit to give you guys what you need under a grand, it's just not here yet. Heidi has some biggger generators that she got from some guy in Italy I think. She lives on an island and her purity from these units is awesome. Like 98% or something. She has 3 units and is putting out 60 LPM, so I'm guessing they are 20 LPM each, that's perfect for a Cuda. They're several grand a piece, but this may be a solution for you guys and that traveling torch. PM her and ask about her units. She swears by them.
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  #64  
Old 2006-03-23, 1:39pm
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Umm, no, several grand a piece is WAY out of our price range. Actually at 10 lpm we'd be happy. We're only burning soft glass, so more isn't really needed. And as I said in the above post, if it WERE 10 lpm at 90ish% I'd be really really happy. I mean, hell, that is what's advertised. If I were to do it again I'd go with the Integra. I know it's a lot more, but it actually produces what it advertises. We did get to use Judies when we were at Shawn's a few months ago (integra 10 running a 'cuda). That's what put us on this whole path. The 'cuda with a true 10 lpm is a kick ass torch.
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  #65  
Old 2006-03-23, 3:40pm
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Bethlehem does a really good job of providing customers with their torch specifications.

Barracuda specifications (theses numbers are direct from Bethlehem website and the numbers are rounded to the next whole number).

Gas = 3-5 PSI
Oxygen = 10-20 PSI
Volume = 20 LPM

With these numbers it would seem that regardless if are using an Integra 10 or M20 that only 1 unit would not be enough to power the Barracuda oxygen requirements. You’d only be getting to about 50% torch power with only 1 unit and regardless if your working soft glass or Boro that just doesn’t cut it.
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  #66  
Old 2006-03-23, 4:09pm
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Well it does for us. Hell I can only run my M20 at 8, so I'm not even up to 1/2 capacity and I can make 1 3/4 inch marbles with ease. And my understanding is JC is also running her 'cuda on 1 M20. And I have run a 'cuda on 1 Integra 10 and it worked much better than the M20. At least according to the advertisments they should be comparable.

We're doing it with one and we're not alone. Sure, I'd love 20 lpm, but that's just not practical at this point (we live in a RV and travel full time). I'm mystified by people insisting I can't do something when I am doing it. Oh, and we work 7 days a week, usually around 8 hours per day. The torch is doing just fine thank you.

Hell, I ran my old national 8 with the 21 tip on 2 5 lpm machines. Wasn't a huge flame, but I made a 2 inch marble with the sucker. It did take most of the day, but that was due to complexity more than lack of heat.
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  #67  
Old 2006-03-23, 4:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CD Lampwork
Well it does for us. Hell I can only run my M20 at 8, so I'm not even up to 1/2 capacity and I can make 1 3/4 inch marbles with ease. And my understanding is JC is also running her 'cuda on 1 M20. And I have run a 'cuda on 1 Integra 10 and it worked much better than the M20. At least according to the advertisments they should be comparable.

We're doing it with one and we're not alone. Sure, I'd love 20 lpm, but that's just not practical at this point (we live in a RV and travel full time). I'm mystified by people insisting I can't do something when I am doing it. Oh, and we work 7 days a week, usually around 8 hours per day. The torch is doing just fine thank you.

Hell, I ran my old national 8 with the 21 tip on 2 5 lpm machines. Wasn't a huge flame, but I made a 2 inch marble with the sucker. It did take most of the day, but that was due to complexity more than lack of heat.
Yo that is sweet. How long you been in an RV? I wish I could travel in an RV full time and burn some glass while doing it. That would be like living a dream.

If you got your torch raging with either one M20 and or one Integra 10 and it works for you, then that's all that matters.

I have not used a M20 or Integra 10 connected to a Barracuda, but I have tried a Barracuda with 2 devilbiss concentrators which would give me equal to what the Integra 10 or M20 would output and I was not happy with the results. I then connected a 3rd newlife conncentrator for a toal of 15 LPM @ 9 psi with 94% oxygen purity and the result was good enough for me to use it inplace of tanked oxygen even though there is still a big difference compared to the tanked oxygen, but it works good enough.

But I do think if I had 20 LPM and close to 20 psi the results would be as close to tanked oxygen as one could get. I also think if I started using the barracuda on concentrators first, then I would of been happy with 10 LPM.

But yo, I agree with you that those units should work as advertised. I think any oxygen generating system should output 94-95% oxygen at it maximum output or else the unit should outlet less to meet the 94-95% oxygen. I would not use any system below 94% oxygen on any output setting. If their units only output 75% oxygen at 10 LPM then they should only be advertised as 1-8 LPM concentrators and not 1-10 LPM concentrators.
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  #68  
Old 2006-03-23, 4:54pm
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Greg, I'm certainly not saying you can't run the Cuda on less. I'm just a boro guy and need the power. Now, Lori Robbins defies all logic and runs her Cuda on 2 5LPM machines and works boro... go figure. I guess it's all in how you work (style) and what you can find to fit your needs.

I looked at getting two of these units instead of an Integra, because of the added PSI and the added volume. Even at 75%, two of these units have 50% more volume than the Integra and 10 more PSI. They aren't much more money for two of these. Price wise, it is worth the risk for me to support a new company through their trials and tribulations. I look at this as research and supporting somebody pushing the limits where I need them pushed. Being a boro worker really sucks when you look at supplying your torch with Oxy. I'm behind anybody that will make that easier. That's why my heart is in this. Boro workers need an easy and affordable source of oxy. Soft glass folks have had it for a while now.
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  #69  
Old 2006-03-23, 5:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
Greg, I'm certainly not saying you can't run the Cuda on less. I'm just a boro guy and need the power. Now, Lori Robbins defies all logic and runs her Cuda on 2 5LPM machines and works boro... go figure. I guess it's all in how you work (style) and what you can find to fit your needs.

I looked at getting two of these units instead of an Integra, because of the added PSI and the added volume. Even at 75%, two of these units have 50% more volume than the Integra and 10 more PSI. They aren't much more money for two of these. Price wise, it is worth the risk for me to support a new company through their trials and tribulations. I look at this as research and supporting somebody pushing the limits where I need them pushed. Being a boro worker really sucks when you look at supplying your torch with Oxy. I'm behind anybody that will make that easier. That's why my heart is in this. Boro workers need an easy and affordable source of oxy. Soft glass folks have had it for a while now.

Until I got my M-20, I was running my Barracuda on 2 5LPM concentrators, working boro, and the performance was very similar to what I'm getting with the M-20. Also, it "breathes" with a very loud, abrupt "whoosh" every few seconds. Should I be concerned about this?
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  #70  
Old 2006-03-23, 5:16pm
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Yep, absolutly right both of you.

I started out with a 5 lpm consy and a national 8 w/7 tip. So a cuda and 10 lpm felt like a huge step up. I'm sure if I'd a gone the other way: tanks down to 10 lpm consy, there's no way I would have been satisfied.

And as I said before, there is a real need for a 10 lpm unit for under 1000 dollars. So I whole heartedly support a company trying to fill the need. My problem here is, well, pretty much false advertising. The online retailers pages say 90%+ at 10 lpm, and the paperwork with the consy is 75% and not really doable at 10 lpm that's one sizable difference.

And this is my buisness. We don't have another source of income. So upgrading was a big move for us. And, ya, it's working out, but we have been down 3 weeks in the last 3 months due to equipment failure with these M20s. But as I said before, these guys have been very helpful. We're really trying to give them the benifit of the doubt. But as Deanna said in the other thread, we really can't afford to replace these within the next year.

Truthfully, these things just don't seem that complicated. A circuit board, a couple of sieve beds, some valves and a compressor. I'm mean dang, I can almost figure out how to build a kick ass concentrator. Ok, probably not, but a few relatively cheap upgrades/modifications might help a lot.
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  #71  
Old 2006-03-23, 5:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera
Until I got my M-20, I was running my Barracuda on 2 5LPM concentrators, working boro, and the performance was very similar to what I'm getting with the M-20. Also, it "breathes" with a very loud, abrupt "whoosh" every few seconds. Should I be concerned about this?
Hi Kalera you cutie you,

Nope, not to worry. It should breath. Out then in. It gives a little overlap between the two sieve beds. Our first failure M20 went the other way: in then out. So there was like 1/2 sec with no ox flowing. Really wigged out the flame. And you should hear 2 (out AND in), our 2nd failure was one of the sieve bed valves gave out so it was trying to opporate on 1 bed, the other was wide open blowing forced air threw the torch.....yuck!

So long as your flame looks good the consy's probably fine.

Greg
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  #72  
Old 2006-03-23, 5:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jokersdesign
Yo that is sweet. How long you been in an RV? I wish I could travel in an RV full time and burn some glass while doing it. That would be like living a dream.
Yea, full time RVing is just totally awsome. We've been free for 3 years now. We did work campground jobs the first 2 years and only made beads 1/2 time or maybe a little better. Now it's our only source of income. We've gotten to meet some wonderful lampworkers, stayed a summer in Maine eating lobster once a week, spent a winter on the Pesicola shoreline drinking margarettas and spashing in the water, it was like 70 in Nov, hung out in Point Reyes north of San Fransisco visiting friends and family. Starting next week we're headed to Colorado for a month, then Montana for a month, Washington for a month, Oregon for a couple of months, then we just don't know, pretty much whichever way the wind blows.

Awww freedom!

Peace,
Greg
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  #73  
Old 2006-03-23, 7:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CD Lampwork
I'm mean dang, I can almost figure out how to build a kick ass concentrator. Ok, probably not, but a few relatively cheap upgrades/modifications might help a lot.
I believe thats already been tried
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  #74  
Old 2006-03-23, 9:26pm
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Quote:
Price wise, it is worth the risk for me to support a new company through their trials and tribulations. I look at this as research and supporting somebody pushing the limits where I need them pushed.
Typically, though, companies pay for their own R&D, not the consumers. I believe it is reasonable for consumers to get a product whose bugs have already been worked out. Buying a piece of equipment should not be a hit or miss gamble. You may be willing to take that risk, but other people may not be. They should be completely informed, first. And then, if they choose to gamble, they can.

I also believe that it is reasonable for a consumer to get a product that performs as advertised.

Look, I am all for innovations. I want there to be a machine that can produce all the oxygen we want at the pressures we need. I just don't think that the cost of development should be shouldered by the consumer, especially when the consumer doesn't know it.

I take no pleasure in hearing bad reports about these units. I was hoping that the three bad units GTT received was a fluke. We wanted to be able to sell these units, afterall.

I also find it in bad taste to gloat over any reported failures - of any company. I have never gloated over any problems people were having with their torches made by a competitor of GTT. Instead, I offered whatever help I could and suggested they contact the manufacturer and provided examples of how that company successfully resolved its problems. Heck, when asked where one of these torches could be purchased, I gave a recommendation (it was someone I had done business with in the past and found to be helpful on the boards). I will continue to do this, even though I have been personally threatened by someone (you know who you are) to not offer any more help. The bottom line is that we are all in this industry together and our common goal should be to help lampworkers by offering quality solutions to their problems - not by bashing the competition.
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  #75  
Old 2006-03-23, 10:08pm
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Thanks Greg! When you guys are in Oregon, you should come visit me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CD Lampwork
Hi Kalera you cutie you,

Nope, not to worry. It should breath. Out then in. It gives a little overlap between the two sieve beds. Our first failure M20 went the other way: in then out. So there was like 1/2 sec with no ox flowing. Really wigged out the flame. And you should hear 2 (out AND in), our 2nd failure was one of the sieve bed valves gave out so it was trying to opporate on 1 bed, the other was wide open blowing forced air threw the torch.....yuck!

So long as your flame looks good the consy's probably fine.

Greg
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  #76  
Old 2006-03-24, 6:33am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera
Until I got my M-20, I was running my Barracuda on 2 5LPM concentrators, working boro, and the performance was very similar to what I'm getting with the M-20. Also, it "breathes" with a very loud, abrupt "whoosh" every few seconds. Should I be concerned about this?
Hello, sounds to me like your unit may have been another victim of shipping abuse. The "breathing" should very barely audible. If you get a chance soon, turn your unit over on its back and see if the plastic base is crackled or caved in. Sounds like the muffler has been broken off. We will be happy to fix it or replace it for you. We will pay your shipping if interested. jack
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  #77  
Old 2006-03-24, 7:07am
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yo Jack/oxydoc,

That picture of the Psyclone II looks great. I can't wait unitl it's available. Got any idea when the distributors will offer them for slae?

Robert
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  #78  
Old 2006-03-24, 8:21am
Larry LaClair Larry LaClair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CD Lampwork
And this is my buisness. We don't have another source of income. So upgrading was a big move for us. And, ya, it's working out, but we have been down 3 weeks in the last 3 months due to equipment failure with these M20s. But as I said before, these guys have been very helpful. We're really trying to give them the benifit of the doubt. But as Deanna said in the other thread, we really can't afford to replace these within the next year.
I have tried to put the word out on this equipment for exactly this reason. Whatever concentrator that these guys tamper with M 20. P 20,
Cyclone Etc. they Will all fail on you. You can keep renaming the darn thing but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, well you know the rest !!

In order for the unit to run properly for torch use you need High Purity, Good Flow Rate, Good output Pressure.

They are tampering with equipment, sending it to you as the test market and blaming all of their troubles on shipping problems.

Well here is someone who was lucky enough to get 3 months out of his unit before it failed. Good thing he was within the embarassing 6 month warranty period.
Three weeks out of work with no other income. How do you put a price on that ???

I have put up information to warn everyone about big problems about these units. I hope people will take me seriously now.
I will be glad to answer anyones questions about any concentrator whether it be one of ours, or our competitors truthfully.

While there are people out there that will sell you any old piece of junk with little or no warranty. Don't you think that after 26 years in business that we have already performed all of this testing ?? We have, and we DO know what works and what doesn't work, and we know why it doesn't work and why it is not safe

We truly do care about what people are using and your safety.
You can buy what ever you want, after all it is your money.

I am putting up the RED FLAG so you do not get yourself a " Trogen Horse "
by some slick " Snake Oil Salesman "

Keep The Posts coming in.

Don't be " Hatin Me " for reporting the Truth !!!
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  #79  
Old 2006-03-24, 12:11pm
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Ummm Larry? I appreciate your input on the matter. But please do NOT use ME to bash THEM. OK? As I said, they seem to be really good guys. They have shipped out 2 new concentrators when the first 2 died really without question. And all the shipping has been on them. Really, Jerry, Jack and Paul have all been really stand up guys. I would never call them "snake oil salesmen"! In fact I really think they may be loosing money on my purchase. I mean shipping alone on these units is supstantial. And as Deanna said in her post in the other thread, the first 2 did come damaged in shipping. I'm all for giving them the benifit of the doubt.

I just have questions/concerns which I listed above. And I am a bit confused as to what they actually do to these machines. The original respironics millenium M10 should perform as advertised:
http://millennium10.respironics.com/Specifications.asp

Really, other than removing the sensors and lableing these units as not for medical use, I'm not sure what's done to them. I would hope reconditioning the sieve beds and checking out the parts, but it doesn't look like there's really any supstantal modifications.

Peace my brothers and sisters,
Greg
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  #80  
Old 2006-03-24, 1:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jokersdesign
yo Jack/oxydoc,

That picture of the Psyclone II looks great. I can't wait unitl it's available. Got any idea when the distributors will offer them for slae?

Robert
Hey Robert, The first 3 go out in the late part of next week. We have lined up good reputable people along with some torch manufacturers, to test these units and tell us which torches they are compatible with. Thanks for your interest and I will certainly keep you informed. jack
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  #81  
Old 2006-03-27, 2:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry LaClair
I have tried to put the word out on this equipment for exactly this reason. Whatever concentrator that these guys tamper with M 20. P 20,
Cyclone Etc. they Will all fail on you. You can keep renaming the darn thing but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, well you know the rest !!

In order for the unit to run properly for torch use you need High Purity, Good Flow Rate, Good output Pressure.

They are tampering with equipment, sending it to you as the test market and blaming all of their troubles on shipping problems.

Well here is someone who was lucky enough to get 3 months out of his unit before it failed. Good thing he was within the embarassing 6 month warranty period.
Three weeks out of work with no other income. How do you put a price on that ???

I have put up information to warn everyone about big problems about these units. I hope people will take me seriously now.
I will be glad to answer anyones questions about any concentrator whether it be one of ours, or our competitors truthfully.

While there are people out there that will sell you any old piece of junk with little or no warranty. Don't you think that after 26 years in business that we have already performed all of this testing ?? We have, and we DO know what works and what doesn't work, and we know why it doesn't work and why it is not safe

We truly do care about what people are using and your safety.
You can buy what ever you want, after all it is your money.

I am putting up the RED FLAG so you do not get yourself a " Trogen Horse "
by some slick " Snake Oil Salesman "

Keep The Posts coming in.

Don't be " Hatin Me " for reporting the Truth !!!

Larry, you sell these exact same Millenium 5 lpm units with a 5 year warranty. Not modified, but if you keep up this out right bad mouthing, you are going to look bad. Maybe you're just a grumpy old man that should hold back off on voicing his opinion so harshly. The units I have are performing flawlessly. I really like them. Time will tell how long they hold up, but I have been assured by the manufacturer that they stand behind these units. So far, they have with others, so I have zero anxiety over it. I know you have some great 5 year warranty, but you aren't doing a damn thing to the units to improve them to the level some of us need. Stop being a crotchety old geezer and see what these do over time. Your bad attitude is really going to lose you some business. I definitely won't ever suggest you guys if somebody needs a 5 LPM machine and I get asked a LOT. There's too many other companies offering the exact same units. Watch your words and how you represent your business... it's not nice and will cost you money. If you have doubts, fine... express them as doubts. Debate it on hard facts if you have them... you have so much experience in this feild, I think you could make your point without calling names.
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Last edited by Mr. Smiley; 2006-03-28 at 5:20am.
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  #82  
Old 2006-03-27, 4:16pm
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Just wanted to take a moment to add my two cents and relay my experience with my two M-20s.

I ordered my two M-20s a couple weeks ago and they arrived quickly. From the time that Unlimited Oxygen received my order until they were delivered to my doorstep, less than 48 hours had passed. Getting them so quickly was a pleasant surprise.

When I openned the boxed I found that one of the M-20s had a broken caster - obviously it happened during shipping (DHL). There was several plastic bits of wheel at the bottom of the box. Concerned that they may have been damaged during shipping I waisted no time in hooking them up and turning them on. They started up and operated with no problem. I contacted Jack via PM and told him the about the damage and he promptly shipped me four replacement wheels. I told him I only needed one and he said he shipped four of different sizes to be sure I would get the correct size - way above and beyond what I expected.

I've been using my M-20s as much as possible. I've probably used them for 60 to 80 hours now and can report 100% flawless operation. They perform exactly as they should. I've made marbles, lots of beads, fumed silver and gold, and done some I/O beads. From what I can tell, the O2 purity (based on color results and fuming) is better than before (when I was using one Companion 590 and an AirSep NewLife). I have no complaints, but rather a big thumbs up for Unlimited Oxygen and my M-20s.

Regarding the mudslinging and name calling that's been going on, I've purposely stayed out of it. I think some of those involved have revealed their intentions, motivations, and lack of professionalism perfectly well without me being involved.

If anyone is interested in an M-20 for their particular application, I invite them to do the research and ask questions. I can lend an educated and informed opinion based on my experience with them. Having laid down a large sum of money, I would have been the first to scream foul if the systems were bogus. My experience has been quite the opposite. So, got questions? Bring it on!

Brad
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Old 2006-03-28, 5:23am
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Rock on Brad! I am so stoked to hear your story. I've been away teaching and haven't been able to run these units as much as you, but I'm on a mission today.
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Old 2006-03-30, 12:50pm
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Just worked for 5 hours straight... not a single burp or problem. Made a crap load of beads. Can't wait to open the kiln...
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Old 2006-03-30, 1:25pm
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Brad - That is very encouraging news! Am I correct that you are running a Phantom on two if these machines? Do you have one machine hooked up to the Lynx centre fire and one hooked up to the outer fire? or is it the two stud version and you have both machines hooked up with a Y connector?

I just bought a Midrange to get a larger flame but yet be able to run it on my Onyx+. It certainly works but I am so used to the clean flame on my Lynx that my preference would be to upgrade to a Phantom for a larger flame .... but I won't go back to having tanks. HOWEVER, if two M-20s can give me what I want then I'd be a happy flameworker!

Kari
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Old 2006-03-30, 3:23pm
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Brad is running the Phantom. I've got a Cuda and a Cheetah. Very happy with how they run both. I'm working on the Cuda right now... I just think it gets hotter on this oxy supply than the Cheetah. I have yet to do much testing though. The flame is that nice bright blue neutral that is smoking hot. It's really a dream to work on. If anybody has any lingering concerns, I'd suggest waiting and paying attention to this thread. I know there have been some issues, but I'm confident the company is on the home stretch with these units. I'm very happy so far.
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Old 2006-03-30, 3:25pm
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Oh yeah and I forgot to add... I do have a flashback arrestor in line with them. There was another thread where Oxyplus told a customer it would drop the pressure by 2-3 PSI. I'm not sure if that's true, but I'm going to remove it and see if they perform even better.
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Old 2006-04-01, 9:11am
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even if it doesnt drop the pressure in your case (since you're using a completely different setup) you dont need need to use them in line anyway.
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Old 2006-04-01, 11:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin L
even if it doesnt drop the pressure in your case (since you're using a completely different setup) you dont need need to use them in line anyway.
Well, it is usually the oxygen line that burns. If someone feels safer using a FA, I certainly wouldn't discourage them from doing so, even though surface mix torches generally do not flash back. If there is ever any premixing, there is the possibility of a flashback. Better safe than sorry.

I think you need to evaluate your entire set-up and assess your risk before dismissing the notion of using a FA. That being said, I do not use a FA with my concentrator.

I have never heard of a torch flashing back on a concentrator. It's not that a concentrator prevents flashback. It is because most torches used with a concentrator are surface mix torches and they rarely flash back. I have definitely heard of some surface mix torches flashing back, but they were on tanks, as the vast majority of torches out there are. Anyway, on a concentrator, the pressure is relatively low, so there isn't much to push anything away from the unit. I don't know what kind of damage a flashback could do to a concentrator, but I wouldn't want it to happen to mine.

FAs can cause a drop in line pressure, but there are other things that can do that, too.
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  #90  
Old 2006-04-01, 8:09pm
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Kari,

Yes, I am running a Phantom with my two M20s.

My Phantom is a 4 stud - split manifold, but the two oxy studs are connected via a hose 'T' and the two propane studs are connected via another 'T'. So, basically it is set up like a two stud model. My two M20s are connected with a 'Y' hose from Paula (Suncoast).

My Phantom came set up this way and this works great for me because of the way I work now and the way I will prolly work in the future. Right now I work maybe 80% with the inner (Lynx) fire to do very detailed/prescision/smaller work. When I'm working with the inner ring only, I run the M20s at about 5 to 6 LPM each. When I need a big fire I open the outer ring and crank up the M20s to 8 or 9 LPM. This gives me enuf heat to make a big Maria quickly or melt/condense a big I/O bead.

Like I said before, the two M20s on a Phantom provide enuf heat for what I do now. In the future I know I'll be needing a larger, driving flame and there is just no substitute for liquid or compressed oxy. So when that time comes, I'll already have the torch I need. I'll just connect the M20s to the inner fire and run the outer fire with liquid Oxy through a foot pedal. I think that's the ideal setup.

BRad
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