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Jelveh Designs - Glass Beads Torched One-by-One

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  #1  
Old 2006-06-26, 7:25am
northern light northern light is offline
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Default GTT or carlisle?

Ok, let's pretend that $ is no object...tough, yes, but I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on the carlisle CC versus the GTT Mirage. I would really like to get into larger boro work, vessels, sculpture. any advice?
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  #2  
Old 2006-06-26, 7:26am
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Mirage hands down. But a CC will do nicely as well.

Good luck getting a GTT, though. I've been waiting on a Phantom for over six months now...
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  #3  
Old 2006-06-26, 8:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northern light
Ok, let's pretend that $ is no object...tough, yes, but I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on the carlisle CC versus the GTT Mirage. I would really like to get into larger boro work, vessels, sculpture. any advice?
The Mirage is much more efficient on gas and oxygen than a CC. It will put the heat to the core of the glass faster than a CC (or any Beth, for that matter). It has more heat density than a CC+ RP (or the Great White, or the 65 HA).

It is not as harsh on your colors - you can work crayon colors without encasing.

It is quieter.

The body stays cool. You won't burn yourself on the barrel of the torch just by looking at it.

It has an amazing flame range.

It can work any type of glass from the most finicky leaded glass to quartz and everything in between.
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  #4  
Old 2006-06-26, 8:38am
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You won't burn yourself on any torch just by looking at it. Nice jab there Kimberly...

The CC is the work horse of our industry that got us where we are today. They are built like a tank... maintenance is easy... but the premix centerfire is harsher on colors. They have an optimizer now, that I'm wanting to try. It's supposed to tame the beast. If you're working a lot of clear, it's great as is! I used to have a CC before I got a Mirage. I personally liked the Mirage better for the type of large solid lathe work I was doing. It is not built as tough, but does come with a lifetime warranty... this does not include damage done to the torch my the user. If you are doing hollow work or really need a solid torch that will take abuse, I'd seriously look at the CC. I know you said that price isn't an object, but it's almost half the price. The Mirage is an awesome torch... just make sure you need it before you spend over $1700.
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Old 2006-06-26, 8:52am
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GTT torches have a down side... but when you design something as complex as a torch, you can't have every thing. It's give and take, to make it work better in a certain aspect, you may give up another strength other torches have.
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Last edited by Mr. Smiley; 2006-06-28 at 2:33am.
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  #6  
Old 2006-06-26, 9:04am
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Well, to reinforce what I said in my first post in this thread - A Mirage is a great torch. A CC is a great torch as well. Is the Mirage $700 better than the CC? That's up to the user to decide. I haven't used a Mirage. I have used a Phantom, and I have used a CC. There are things I prefer a Phantom for, and things I would rather work on a CC.

However, if money were no object, I'd say get a Python. Of course, if money were no object, I'd be discussing whether to buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini. Not which kind of torch to buy...
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  #7  
Old 2006-06-26, 10:09am
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Default Introducing the Mongoose!

The Mongoose is a new torch on the market, specifically designed to address the needs of the growing number of lampworkers who want larger and larger torches. Designed to be modified by the owner simply by adding progressively larger outer rings of flame, it is both the perfect starter torch and the only torch a lampworker will ever need. Cooling of the torch is accomplished by flowing both oxygen and nitrogen through the torch body through cleverly designed stainless micro-tubules. The torch body will never get hotter than you can comfortably touch.

The Mongoose 1 is a both a surface and pre-mix torch, with 7 ports. 3 Valves control the flow of compressed air, oxygen, propane. An additional 4th valve allows you to adjust the mixture of compressed air and propane inside the torch body. True QUADRUPLE mix technology! 2 to 15 mm flame diameter.

Price $ 195.00 plus shipping

The Mongoose 2 is an add-on torch body that slides over your existing Mongoose1 and adds a 30 port outer fire. 4 additional valves. Outer fire ring is capable of 30 mm flame diameter.

Price $ 250.00 plus shipping

The Mongoose 3 is an add-on torch body that slides over your existing Mongoose 1 and Mongoose 2 and adds a 60 port outer fire. 4 additional valves. Outer fire ring is capable of 50 mm flame diameter.

Price $ 795.00 plus shipping.

The Mongoose 4 is the final add-on available at this time. It slides over the existing Mongoose 1, 2, and 3, to add an astonishing 150 ports! 4 additional valves. Outer fire ring is capable of 90 mm flame diameter.

Price $ 1250.00 plus shipping

Special package pricing:

Mongoose 1 and 2: $ 435 plus shipping
Mongoose 1, 2 and 3: $ 1195.00 plus shipping
Mongoose 1, 2, 3, and 4: $ 2200.00 plus shipping

These torches are available for immediate shipment to anywhere in the world.

Gas pressures: Oxygen: 5 to 45 PSI, Propane: 2 to 20 PSI, Compressed Air: 10 to 20 PSI. The range used by the torch will depend on the number of outer rings being used. Nitrogen is used as a cooling gas only, and requires .5 PSI continuous flow.

Footswitches will be coming soon, specially designed for the 3 ports (oxygen, compressed air, and propane), as well as the 4 total rings of flame.
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  #8  
Old 2006-06-26, 10:16am
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Mike,

Where can we get more info on the Mongoose? Who makes them? Sounds very interesting...

And, to everyone else, sorry for disrupting the post. The Carlisle and GTT are both good torches, as are Bethlehems (which I currently use, at the recommendation of Brent and others). I would, however, take what you read in this thread and others on this board (both good and bad) into account no matter what torch you buy...
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  #9  
Old 2006-06-26, 10:26am
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Mike, can you run it on a concentrator?

Oh, and the compressed air option is great. You can add compressed air through torches without a dedicated inlet, btw. Ask me how and I will explain. This is beneficial to anyone wanting to do thin hollow work.
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  #10  
Old 2006-06-26, 10:30am
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I know Carlisle has that "optimizer" for adding compressed air, but I don't know anyone that uses it so I don't know much about it. Don't Herbert Arnold torches use compressed air as well?
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  #11  
Old 2006-06-26, 10:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northern light
Ok, let's pretend that $ is no object...tough, yes, but I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on the carlisle CC versus the GTT Mirage. I would really like to get into larger boro work, vessels, sculpture. any advice?
I bet you never thought your first post on this board would be so popular, huh?
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  #12  
Old 2006-06-26, 10:33am
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Kimberly, no. Tanks or liquid only.
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  #13  
Old 2006-06-26, 10:39am
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Mike,
At Mongoose level 4 there are 16 valves?
Did I add right?
Bill
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  #14  
Old 2006-06-26, 10:44am
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Yep. a set for each ring.
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Old 2006-06-26, 10:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo
I know Carlisle has that "optimizer" for adding compressed air, but I don't know anyone that uses it so I don't know much about it. Don't Herbert Arnold torches use compressed air as well?
Yes, HAs use compressed air.

When using compressed air with a Herbie, be sure to have a water trap in place. It can be an expensive mistake not to (there was a thread about it on the GLDG).

For other torches without the dedicated inlet, you just add air through the propane line. This works well for four stud torches. It is important to have an in-line regulator for the air. Jason Howard used to make these set-ups, and may again if he is persuaded to with enough interest.
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  #16  
Old 2006-06-26, 10:50am
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A Herbie is something I've never used. And, quite frankly, they look a little scary to me...
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  #17  
Old 2006-06-26, 10:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northern light
Ok, let's pretend that $ is no object...tough, yes, but I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on the carlisle CC versus the GTT Mirage. I would really like to get into larger boro work, vessels, sculpture. any advice?
I personally would go with the Mirage, as the CC is internal mix on the single center port and surface mix on the outer 34 ports. The boro colors don't develop as easily as on a complete surface mix torch. The Mirage has seven center ports with 33 outer ports, all surface mix. During classes working colored boro, the people working on CC's generally had a harder time getting the colors. You will have more versatility with the Mirage, as you can still do smaller work using the inner 7 ports, similar to a Lynx.

I hope that helps.
Pam
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Old 2006-06-26, 10:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo
A Herbie is something I've never used. And, quite frankly, they look a little scary to me...
What attracted me to the HA was once you set up the flame balance you could adjust the flame from full to pinpoint with just one knob, big to little, and anywhere in between, and the balance remained the same.
What scared me was the price.
Bill
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  #19  
Old 2006-06-26, 11:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo
A Herbie is something I've never used. And, quite frankly, they look a little scary to me...
They do look a little scary to some people. I was taking Makenzie for a spin through the technical exhibit area at the GAS conference and when we passed by one, she cried. Personally, I find them interesting. Not too many people know how they work.

The thing about Herbies is that they tune them at the factory for your specific application. So, if you work soft thin hollows, that is what they tune it for. If you work hard solids, that it what they tune it for. Everything is preset at the factory, so when you get it home, you just adjust the one control knob. The more you turn the knob, the center fire turns on, and then the next ring of fire comes on, and then the third ring...

The down side is that if you have your HA configured for one thing (hollow work, for example), it won't be very effective for other work (solid work, for example). And, if you start messing with the hex nuts and stuff other than the one control knob, you are asking for trouble.

To get around this, guys with HAs will often put inline regulators up at the torch so they can control the flame that way.
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  #20  
Old 2006-06-26, 11:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhhco
What scared me was the price.
Yeah, that too. They start at like $2200 or something, don't they?

Of course, I'm sure I'll own one before long. I'm on a mission to own one of every torch brand. Then probably one of every torch model.

Yes, I'm a torch-whore. I admit it.
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  #21  
Old 2006-06-26, 1:47pm
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ooooooooo....what he said......ROFL!!!
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  #22  
Old 2006-06-26, 2:48pm
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Someone (forget who - just remember the torch) was demo'ing at a GAS conference with an HA and she had a heck of a time getting it set up. Evidently it is extremely sensitive and because she moved it from her home to the conference it was all messed up. As I remember it it took her about 45 minutes to get it to work and then it wasn't right, she said. I think I prefer a simpler life, thank you.
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Old 2006-06-26, 3:45pm
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Well, I've heard with Herbies, you either swear by them or you swear at them. The guys I have talked to that use them won't use anything else. It does look like a big adjustment to me.
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Old 2006-06-26, 5:19pm
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We saw a really nice torch at Fratz a couple of weeks ago called a Bullet Burner. Everyone there really liked it, but they don't actually carry it. It was small in stature, but you cold really control the flame and it just didn't get hot. All the guys wanted one.

Not that I know anything about torches. We have a GTT Cheeta and I don't use it.
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Old 2006-06-26, 5:29pm
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I liked the CC much better after my class with Mickelsen. Before that class, I really didn't care too much for it. That style of larger sculpture really worked well with that torch. It's a beast and you can manhandle it.

The Bullet didn't impress me when I had it for a few weeks. It's a good torch and Selchow really loves his... I just didn't like it for what I do.
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Old 2006-06-26, 6:11pm
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Those of you waiting for a torch don't feel bad. I've beem waiting for a Lucio torch since September. I know people are getting them but I'm not. I don' think I even want it anymore. I think I'm over my sculpture wanna be phase. Paula

edited to add...The torch just got here and it's a beauty!!
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Old 2006-06-27, 6:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevan
Not that I know anything about torches. We have a GTT Cheeta and I don't use it.
Wanna sell it?
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Old 2006-06-27, 6:12am
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A torch, any torch, will be only as good as the person using it.

Those are my thoughts, and mine alone. Mine, do you hear me? MINE!!! No one else can think this!!!! MIIIIINNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!


hehehehehehehehehehe
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  #29  
Old 2006-06-27, 6:23am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeAurelius
A torch, any torch, will be only as good as the person using it.

Those are my thoughts, and mine alone. Mine, do you hear me? MINE!!! No one else can think this!!!! MIIIIINNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!


hehehehehehehehehehe
In that case, maybe I should start using a can of hair spray and a lighter as my torch...
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Old 2006-06-27, 6:48am
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ROFL...I think I better stop eating raw coffee. You think?
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