Why Brass? And a question about tungsten...

elle · #1 2006-02-27, 6:44pm

What is the advantage of brass shaping tools (the Stick Shift or Brass Stump Shaper for example) vs. stainless? I mainly use stainless spatulas and rakes, but hate the way it leaves mucky marks where it got too hot and stuck to the glass. Does brass not do this?

Also, should you quench hot tungsten in water? Does that weaken it? I've never used it. I want to be able to set it down on my table when I'm done with it, but I don't want it to catch anything on fire. I always quench my stainless tools before setting them down.

Sarah

SpitFire · #2 2006-02-27, 7:38pm

I don't know the specific answers to your questions, but I do know that brass tools will move or nudge the glass rather than the glass sliding on them like it would on graphite. Brass also chills the glass faster than graphite. Brass will leave major chill marks if you use the presses or if you use a brass tool to mash the glass, but of course they can be fire polished away. Any metal tool will stick to glass if the tool gets too hot, but I have never had brass leave any "mucky" marks on my glass.

I have always quenched my tungsten pick and it is going on 2 years old. I don't know "technically" if this weakens the tool, but mine is still truckin'. Also, I don't get my tungsten pick screaming hot like some beadmakers do to poke through the glass either.

I hope this helps a little.

parisgal · #3 2006-02-27, 7:58pm

For brass and glass to stick, they both have to be "screamin" hot, both glowing, so it's more forgiving of getting close to the flame (even in it for a teensy second). The normal stainless used in our tools will stick to glass at a lower temp.

Not sure about the tungsten either.

artwhim · #4 2006-02-27, 9:12pm

Antique stores can be great places for cheap brass tools. I picked up a letter opener with a wonderful curve for next to nothing - has pretty decoration on the handle too! Brass is nice because you don't have to keep quenching it while doing sculptural pieces.

Kathy

elle · #5 2006-03-01, 3:12pm

Thank you all for your response and suggestions. I'll start out with tungsten. I think it will serve my purpose just fine, and is considerably less expensive than brass right now, especially if I buy it from my welding supplier. (and if anyone decides to do the same, make sure you ask for PURE tungsten.) Meanwhile, I'll check out the thrift store for brass stuff.

Thanks again,
Sarah

oxwife · #6 2006-11-10, 6:29pm

thanks for the suggestions of where to get cheaper tungsten and brass... i'd love to start making some of my own tools.

i only quench my tungsten when i need to cool it off really quickly. i've had mine (and it's 1/16) for years, and it's never been damaged, even the tiny point. but if i don't need to cool it quickly, i just set in on my graphite pad... or on my glass rest.

Jim Moore Tools · #7 2006-11-12, 2:23pm

I have noticed that glass will only stick to metal once it has oxidized (turned black). The nice thing about tungsten is that it does not oxidize very easily even when it is heated up to red hot. A alternative to tungsten rods are carbide rods they come in all different sizes and they are really tough and the glass is even less inclined to stick to them. The carbide rods are made of cobalt which is more stable than tungsten at high
temperatures. They can be purchased from MSC a industrial tool distributor, the catalogue must weigh 10 pounds. A 1/8 rod that is 12 inches long and ground costs $17 not so cheap but it is about the sane price as the tungsten. The same thing un-ground costs $15, the sizes range from 1/64" to 5/8" MSC has a toll free#1 800 645 7270 or mscdirect.com. The rods are called (solid carbide rounds or rods) The part number for a 1/8"x12" carbide round (un-ground) is 04115085 and the cost in the 2005 catalogue is $15.13.
A good place to find brass,bronze and stainless steel is to look in the phone book under Steel Distributors. There will be some one selling this stuff and they will probably cut material to size for you. Chances are they will have remnants that you can pick through which is the most fun.

evolvingBeau · #8 2006-11-12, 4:17pm

Tungsten is used for it's unusual non-stickiness at high temps whereas it will grab a little when the pick itself is realatively cold and the glass is hot.
It also holds a nice point that is not easily blunted at high temps unlike stainless.
This makes tungsten the best choice for plunges (trapped bubbles) raking, and "drilling" holes in hot glass.
Brass is an excellent conductor (far better than stainless) and large shaping paddles efficiently chill the surface and allow you to nudge the glass around as if they have an invisible "grip".
Stump shapers work better than stainless or carbon(graphite) for moving glass. Stainless ones work but not in the same way and as you've noticed if the glass is REALLY hot when you use the tool it can leave marks.
It's not a question of what metal is better so much as it is a question of what you are trying to do with it.
Personally I don't use stainless shaping tools and stick to either carbon(graphite) or brass depending on what I'm doing. (Tungsten is unbeatable as a "pick/poker" material and I use that also) Carbon works well for most applications, but the small brass stump shapers are great for nudging glass around.
One thing that is important with all tools is that they are VERY clean before you use them on a hot piece, this is a sure way to avoid unpleasant specks on your bead etc..
Hope my ramble was of some assistance

Beau

SuzyQ · #9 2006-11-12, 4:19pm

I have used just about anything I could find and think each has it's use. While I don't particularly care for poking with stainless because it is quick to get hot and stick. I do use different tools for different things. A brass poker will chill the glass quickly for me and let me heat the bead to press but leave an indentation for me to place a cz or floral center to melt in perfectly. But if I'm looking for a more oozy center I'll use my tungsten pick. When shaping a bead on my graphite I know I will have more time and play to get the shape but if I use my brass I will be able to quickly set a shape.
I don't think of one being better than the other. I think of it as using the right tool for the job at hand.

oxwife · #10 2006-11-13, 9:47pm

so i did go to a steel place today, and i bought a four foot piece of brass (about half inch by 1/8 inch) for six dollars. not quite sure what i'm gonna do with it now! i didn't have them cut it, 'cause they charge a few dollars per cut... but i was told that i could probably cut it with a dremmel tool. any ideas? it was kinda lame of me to buy a piece of metal that i don't know how to cut!