so many questions ??????

treehuggerz1 · #1 2014-03-11, 10:27pm

1st i have only taken 2 lessons & i fell in love with it however the style they teach is not what i'm looking at doing ! I have no local place where i can take lessons so i am trying to learn everything on google. but i have a alot of ?'s if anyone could help 1st ? -(since i am trying to do this as cheap as possible ) can you use dentist & doctors tools? I noticed alot of the tools look like dentist tools and they are cheaper if you buy them as dentist & doctor tools vs glassblowing equip. Is there a difference? Also i am looking to spend around $300 for torch and want to make pieces with boro glass (spoons and such) do any of you have a strong recommendation for a torch that will be good i would like the surface mix type. One other thing can you use a acetylene regulator on propane torch? I have propane and oxygen tanks this is all so far i have watched all of revere glasses videos on you tube but there is still alot of unexplained why are they taking glass out of the oven before blowing,how much do you blow ? what is the purpose of blowing? when do you turn temp of torch up and down and why? if anyone has a recommendation on a actual beginners guide i would very much appreciate any and all help i can get. Thanks so much in advance for your help!

Otter's Flame · #2 2014-03-12, 3:19am

I can answer a couple questions. Like most people I know that work boro, I have very few tools specially made for glass. My graphite paddles, bowl push, marble mold, jacks and grabbers. Everything else is an assortment of tweezers, dental tools, carving tools and assorted things that happen to work for me. You can improvise a lot when it comes to tools.

As far as torches go, PLEASE do as much research as you can and make a decision based on the information you have at that point. Your choice of torch will most likely change as you grow in skill level etc. i have used a wide variety of torches for soft glass and boro. Each one had positive and negative aspects. If I were to tell you that torch"X" is the perfect torch for boro I would be telling you that it works for me and the way I happen to work glass. You may end up researching, buying a torch, using it then selling it and buying a different one. The torch that I started with is NOT the torch I would pick now.

I use an acetylene regulator for my propane. Just make sure you talk to your local welding supply store and make sure you are using the proper rated hose type for propane.

Otter

Kalorlo · #3 2014-03-12, 3:21am

Depends on the exact tool as to whether they are actually the same, but most stainless steel tools are as good as each other and lots of us repurpose things that weren't sold as glass tools!

Celestial B · #4 2014-03-12, 4:59pm

Any tips on Jacks on the cheap, or just expect to pay @ $200 depending on size? They look like they can be pretty handy. I have been using reamers and different size tweezers to accomplish most of the stuff I see Jacks used for.

houptdavid · #5 2014-03-12, 6:50pm

I have no local place where i can take lessons so i am trying to learn everything on google. Where are you?
1st ? -(since i am trying to do this as cheap as possible )Isn't most everyone starting out
can you use dentist & doctors tools? Yes as said before you can repurpose many things
Also i am looking to spend around $300 for torch and want to make pieces with boro glass (spoons and such) What ottersflame said
One other thing can you use a acetylene regulator on propane torch? Yes

treehuggerz1 · #6 2014-03-12, 9:28pm

Thank-you all so much for the quick responses This helped save time and money! I have an idea of a torch in mind but not sure if i will be disappointed in the size i like the sounds of the torch major minor. I would like to make spoons about 3-5" in length with thicker boro and marbles look fun to do you think it would be wise to save longer and go bigger or is this a good starting place? I don't mind opinions.@houptdavid in illinois in the country.

Mary K · #7 2014-03-13, 7:21am

Have you looked in the garage sale thread here on Lampworketc? I have sold all the torches I outgrew there, and for darned good prices as well. As far as torches go, any torch that says "GTT" on it would be a good place to start. I guarantee you will not buy one torch and keep it for ever, the rule of thumb is "more please" More heat, more glass, more tools, more time, more classes, more $$$$, and so on.
So if you want to spend less, this is not the hobby for you. Plan on spending more.

LadyGlass108 · #8 2014-03-13, 12:14pm

I started lampworking about 1-1/2 years ago. My daughter got me into it on her Mega/Minor and she blows spoons and such. I'm into boro pendants, marbles, and beads and have never taken a class, although I would really love to now that my interests are a little more focused. My first torch is a Carlisle MiniCC on propane with oxycons -- I've loved it so far and am getting about 1.5" marbles when I have the patience for the time it takes. I can see myself growing out of this torch pretty soon though, but as a beginner and for the price (I think I paid around $170 at D&L in Denver) I've found it to be a good learning torch. I've searched the internet high and low and found lots of good tutorials -- especially on YouTube just to see how other people approach things and there are many, many different techniques so you just have to try things out and find what works for you. And, especially, if you haven't found them on this site-forum yet, there are many good free tutorials here in the boro room, as well as the overall forum. Most artists that I've run across in forums and on Facebook glass groups don't mind sharing their knowledge if you have questions or need help. Good luck and most of all -- Have Fun!!!

(P.S.... the Carlisle MiniCC probably won't handle what you want to do with boro spoons. My daughter's first mega/minor is what she learned on for spoons, and she bought it used in good condition for around $300-350).

treehuggerz1 · #9 2014-03-14, 1:21am

Thank-you so much ladyglass108 and everyone. It's good to hear you are having fun and self taught that is encouraging!!! I have decided to go with a major-minor by nortel i found a really good deal on ebay just waiting for auction to end & keeping fingers crossed that it stays affordable

I love youtube which in watching videos today I have another question if anyone knows the answer .... if you are doing a inside-out spoon with frit is there a specific type or grade of frit that has to be used I noticed while doing my ebay shopping that there are 2 types everyone sells coe 90 & coe 96 What is the diffrence and is one better than the other if you are working with boro or pyrex? thanks again!

Otter's Flame · #10 2014-03-14, 2:14am

90 and 96 frit really are not compatible with boro. Bor is COE 33, you need boro frit. 90 or 96 is going to fracture your glass do not mix COE's.

Sue in Maine · #11 2014-03-14, 4:29am

If I'm being redundent, my apologies but in reference to your questions of COE's, I'm hopping in to say that COE stands for Coefficient of Expansion which references the rates that glass expands and cools. Glass needs to be compatible, that is melt and cool at the same rate or the incompatibility of the two glass COE's will cause the glass to crack, break and sometimes explode.

When I explain COE's to non-glassy peeps, I tell them that both jello and ice are solids but they you can't stick a piece of ice to a chunk of jello and expect them to stick together. Odd as that is, it helps people get it.

When you buy frit, be sure your frit is COE 33.

Sue

EDITED TO CORRECT MYSELF on a "Duh" on my moment... it's Coefficient of Expansion. Sorry about that!

treehuggerz1 · #12 2014-03-14, 10:50am

Thank-you both again. Sue that is such a simple explanation,

Talonst · #13 2014-03-14, 11:26am

COE - Coefficient of Expansion. Glasses can be with 2 or 3 points COE and usually be compatible, but as Sue says 90 and 96 aren't compatible with boro.

EDIT: Get yourself a copy of Contemporary Lampworking Vol.I if you don't have it already - it will provide a solid foundation and answer most of your questions.

Rough_necked · #14 2014-03-14, 3:21pm

I wouldn't recommend a large frit for inside out at first. Smaller melts in better with less chance of checking.

Chuck

Celestial B · #15 2014-03-14, 5:30pm

I lucked out trolling e-bay for a torch as well. I am lucky enough to have a mentor, so I got to work on a Nortel Major Minor (the one with the square head major). I was watching for Major Minors and someone started selling off old scientific torches that looked a lot like a Carlisle CC. I went for it and picked won the torch @ $250. It is nearly identical to the Carlisle CC. I do a lot of work on the center fire which is a pre-mix torch (read "loud". Pretty hissy). Not bad on Oxy tough. Now the outer ring is surface mix and sucks the Oxy. I have been using it for about 5 months now.

treehuggerz1 · #16 2014-03-14, 9:22pm

I orderded a collection of 42 dvd's and books i hope a true beginners guide is included if not i will check out the Contemporary lampworking volumn 1. @ roughnecked thanks you beat me to one of my next questions

now what does checkered mean? and you are lucky Celestial B to have a mentor and all! I am lucky cause i have family member who had propane and oxygen tanks they could spare and another family member who gave me regulators and hoses they were however for oxy/acetylyn. now, thanks to you guys i know i can use the regulators, just not the hoses. Celestial b did you love the major/minor? cause i just won mine in an ebay auction for what i felt was a fair price ... I can't wait to get it I just want to make sure that i made a good choice or at least one i won't grow out of right away!

Celestial B · #17 2014-03-15, 4:38am

treehuggerz1. I thought the Major/Minor was a good torch. The one with the square head makes a bushy flame that works well for blowing glass. Makes a pretty large very bushy soft flame. The minor worked well up to about 19mm rod, then takes a bit to heat up bigger gathers. If you keep the Minor on the small flame side, you can work soft glass great too. It seems torches are like many trade/craft tools. They are as good as the user. Now you will have the joy of figuring out your pressure settings and flame chemistry. I am learning so much can happen to some colors just because of the flame chemistry (rich in oxy, or rich in fuel or neutral) It is important to know what those flame types look/sound like or there is a whole grab bag of randomness that can be good or bad, but very hard to duplicate when you pull off something really cool. I am saving for a kiln now. Been watching Craig's list for months trying to find the right combination of price and being relatively local. Those puppies will add up in shipping due to weight. Have fun!

Mary K · #18 2014-03-15, 7:13am

Hey there Celestial B, when you are ready for a kiln call Jason at Glass House in Arcada, ca. He has excellent kilns at really low prices made by someone local there, and I can tell you my next kiln will come from him. His store is located in an area where there are tons of glass artists, and he has the best prices and is really down to earth and doesn't ream you on shipping, like some do. Tell him I sent you. The kilns they sell have controllers built into them. I paid more for my controller than he charges for the whole thing, kiln with controller, I basically got ripped off.
Glass House - 1-877-789-6454

Otter's Flame · #19 2014-03-15, 3:11pm

Checking is basically small cracks that can develop for a variety of reasons. Usually the primary reason stems from CEO incompatibility. Even if the glass is boro, COE is sometimes a range very close to 33 but not always. Depending on how you work the two glasses that are close to 33 CEO it may or may not crack or check.

Sometimes when you are melting frit inside tubing and larger frit doesn't melt in all the way I have seen it check but I have not had that issue. I always use smaller frit because it was always easier to melt in.

Dragonharper · #20 2014-03-15, 3:41pm

Also, flame chemistry, reducing, neutral, oxidizing, can effect boro color's COE. Read the mfgr's notes on how to work with the color.

KJohn · #21 2014-03-15, 4:06pm

Complicated stuff you are getting into, grasshopper. By all means, ask advice and read everything you can get your hands on. In the meantime, when you can start, jump in!! No fun otherwise, and flame chemistry does take time...!

treehuggerz1 · #22 2014-03-15, 5:42pm

@ Celestial B there is a guy on ebay he had tools related to glassblowing so i asked him if he had anything else to sell that wasn't listed, he has a hotshot kiln that he said works great and would sell for 500 shipping included, i'm sure he would take a little less if offered this is the link to the item he was selling http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11051...TQ%3AUS%3A1123 seemed like a good deal ! Thanks for the info on the torch. Otter thanks for the answer I am definatley going to start with the small frit. I think if it wasn't a challenge that will be ever changing there would be no fun. I look forward to finding out how with one piece of glass we can get a range of colors & or effects. Dang i can't wait !!!!

houptdavid · #23 2014-03-15, 8:03pm

Treehuggerz go here http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=38
in the upper right where it says search this forum type in Illinois

treehuggerz1 · #24 2014-03-16, 9:30pm

awesome! I found a lady on there who does lessons only like 2 hours from me ... hasn't wrote on the thread since 2007 hopefully she is still in the area and can show me what i want to learn.

Celestial B · #25 2014-03-17, 8:30am

Mary K. ~ Thanks for the tip on the Kiln. I will be moving back to Reno, NV this summer. My wife's Aunt lives in Arcata, so it sounds like a great two-fer opportunity. Maybe even a three-fer as her aunt owns the salvage yard in Arcata. Love going treasure hunting at the salvage yard.

treehuggerz1 ~ Thanks for the kiln link. I have to save some bucks now to move back to the West Coast. Fortunately I have access to a kiln while I stay where I am at.