Haze Question

Rose · #1 2007-12-12, 1:56pm

I'm having another issue

Let's say you made a cane with striped glass over clear. Something with silver in it. Then you stripe another silver glass down each side and twist. Then you wrap a couple wraps on the mandrel. Then you heat in little increments and put in little twists all the way around. Next step would be to encase. Common bead, right?

Ok, how do you get the haze out? I'm assuming you just wrap the encasing on without heating the core. Then you melt the whole thing down at once. You know, like Dougie does.

My beads are all cloudy and I can't see all the colors that are in there. I'm missing a step here I think.....

Help???

Rose · #2 2007-12-12, 2:03pm

BTW, this is Lauri's Bronze over clear with stripes of DAP. I annealed 4 hrs. ay 1150. Could that be the problem???

Sue in Maine · #3 2007-12-12, 2:14pm

OK, nothing but a guess here but I suspect it's the silver. If you're working with PMC and make a frame for clear glass, when you're firing the piece the silver will turn the clear a yellowish hazy shade.

Others will know more.

Sue

Cosmo · #4 2007-12-12, 2:15pm

You have to work it really hot the whole time. From start to finish. When you are laying the stripes down, you have to heat it up and burn off the haze. When you are twisting, burn off the haze. When you are winding it onto the mandrel, burn off the haze. Then shape it, burn off the haze, and then encase it quickly.

The annealing temp shouldn't be the problem. I don't know what "Lauri's Bronze" is, so it may be that particular color causing the problem.

Rose · #5 2007-12-12, 2:22pm

Ok, Cosmo I got it. I wasn't burning off the silver from the start. I DO know to do that. What got me confused was I watched Doug R.'s video yesterday about beads and I never saw him burn off the silver. His torch is probably so hot it just happens. He just made canes, didn't ever melt things down, wrapped beads, etc. OK ok ok, I will start over and hopefully I will have a rainbow of colors when I'm done. Another sleepless night waiting to see what's in the kiln. Thank you!!

LeahBeads · #6 2007-12-12, 2:23pm

Hi Rose,
I had the same problems when I began. Just like Cosmo said keep everything real hot and clear until you strike. Once the haze is encased you're stuck with it.

Leah

Cosmo · #7 2007-12-12, 2:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose

Ok, Cosmo I got it. I wasn't burning off the silver from the start. I DO know to do that. What got me confused was I watched Doug R.'s video yesterday about beads and I never saw him burn off the silver. His torch is probably so hot it just happens. He just made canes, didn't ever melt things down, wrapped beads, etc. OK ok ok, I will start over and hopefully I will have a rainbow of colors when I'm done. Another sleepless night waiting to see what's in the kiln. Thank you!!

He doesn't really explain it in the video. But, that's why he keeps the outer flame of his CC on the whole time.

Rose · #8 2007-12-12, 2:28pm

Thanks, Leah. I DO know this. I just regressed..... lol

Rose · #9 2007-12-12, 2:30pm

Oh, ok Cosmo. That explains it.

Rose · #10 2007-12-13, 5:21am

I'm thinking my torch may be the problem. I'm using a Betta and although the flame is hot it's very narrow. I gave up boro for awhile because I just couldn't get the results. Anyone here use a Betta? I'd like to compare some things.

I did another batch last night and they are hazy, too. I made sure to work hot. The one thing I did change is to anneal at 1150 for hours. That seems to affect the haze, too. I'm baffled.

kiko · #11 2007-12-13, 7:07am

Some colors have so much silver in them that you really have to be dilligent about burning off the haze before encasing them. If you've de-hazed them before encasing then striking shouldn't re-haze them. The NS exotics are an example of this. Certainly the glasstique colors have exta metal content too.

Rose · #12 2007-12-13, 7:58am

Thanks Lori. I'm going to keep trying. I also am asking Bethlehem to take a look at my torch. I know most of the issue is me but my torch is doing something weird, too.

I'm off to try Black Ruby unencased, now.

DawnT · #13 2007-12-13, 8:25am

Rose - you might want to shoot Paula/Ven Bead a PM. I know she uses a Betta on NG.

Have you tried other silver colors or are you trying with the same cane? Also, 1150 sounds kind of high to be annealing for hours...although I did have to go that high for the Purple Cream Soda.

Rose · #14 2007-12-13, 11:26am

Renee just got in touch with me and she had the same problem with her torch I am having. It turned out to be the concentrators. That info helps alot, although I can't upgrade right now. At least I know what's causing it and it isn't the torch.

The next issue is ME. I just torched for a couple of hours and watched every step. I see where my issues are. I haven't done boro beads much in months so with making simple beads it wasn't such a big issue. I got a lot of the silver off. But now Im trying different techniqes and annealing schedules and things changed drastically. Anyways, to make a long story short, I just made a bunch of beads w/ similar recipes as the last few days and they all went into the kiln with LOTS more color. I don't want to

too much yet as I may embarrass myself. LOL But I'll see later today if it worked.

I was trying Doug R.'s annealing schedule of 4 hours at 1150 for pinks. Today I'm doing 1150 for 25 min. and 1050 for 40 min.

All of you folks have been so supportive and helpful and I greatly appreciate it. Stay tuned!

Hopefully others can learn from my mistakes.

DawnT · #15 2007-12-13, 11:44am

I read a few times that Doug's kiln was off and that his recipes that say anneal at 1150 actually should be 1075.

Here it is:

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...98&postcount=6

Rose · #16 2007-12-13, 7:16pm

OMG Dawn, this is enough to keep me crazy. I just crashed my kiln down after reading what you just said, lol. I do remember reading that, now that you bring it up.

In spite of all this, I am happy.

The colors are so clear and vibrant compared to the last 2 days. I have really paid attention to what I'm doing and watching the silver haze. I even turned my torch DOWN and worked slower.

DawnT · #17 2007-12-13, 7:36pm

Rose those are PRETTY! Love love love the pinks!

Rose · #18 2007-12-13, 7:53pm

Thanks Dawn, Better Huh?

I'm beginning to understand......

teefee · #19 2007-12-14, 7:30am

Nice job, Rose! ....the pinks are wonderful and the colors so clear. Very cool to watch you work through the troubleshooting process. What would we do without all the willing help here? Your beads inspire me to give Dougie Pink another chance...maybe...

Judy

Rose · #20 2007-12-14, 8:05am

Judy,
If you do try it I'd suggest you try the Black Ruby. You can heat it up, beat it up and you don't have to worry about the liver like with the ruby he sugggests. I used lots of different silver glasses in these which was layers and layers of silver. So burning off the haze each step of the way was the key. I have to say I have learned SO much going thru this process.

Thanks to everyone here that helped me!

Rose

teefee · #21 2007-12-14, 12:57pm

Thanks for the suggestion, Rose. I've got some Black Ruby ordered so I'll wait until it arrives - maybe it'll increase my chances of sucess (o:

Judy

Jamn! · #22 2007-12-14, 3:32pm

Wow Rose you are doing a lot better!! Very Nice!!