What do i NEED

J2Creations · #1 2012-04-11, 7:25am

Ok so i'm trying to get my starter kit going, i know i need the torch glass and cooling blanket but what about the rest?
Which size mandrels will i use most? what other tools can i not live without?
I was going to buy a prepackaged kit from devardi but i think i can get what i NEED cheaper if i buy things separately.

Thanks in advance
Joy

Eileen · #2 2012-04-11, 7:32am

Mandrels I use more 3/32, and I've been buying TIG rod at the welding supply place & cutting it myself. 308L or 316L (edited because I had a brain fart this morning!, thanks 3 muses for catching that!) is what has been recommended here, although I got some plain 308 when that was all I could find & it's working. 1/16th is great for small diameter holes, but bends easily so you may not want much of that to start out.

Don't forget the bead release!

Ventilation - lots of info in the safety room

Fire extinguisher (just in case, although hopefully you'll never need it)

Dididium glasses (spelling?) They had some (relatively) inexpensive ones at clearanceit.com last time I was there, but if you wear glasses make sure you get some that can fit over your prescription/reading glasses. Or a shield, which I kind of wish I'd sprung for because 2 pair of glasses at once can be a pain.

I've got to run, but welcome to the addiction!

Oh, a marver, graphite is what most use. I've heard you can use a piece of marble, but I've never tried it so can't comment. Some dental picks or similar to poke, drag, etc. the glass. A small sharp stainless knife is good, can find it at the thrift store even.

rdbeads · #3 2012-04-11, 9:15am

Eileen listed the basics perfectly. I will only add that if you are planning on buying Devardi glass, I would strongly urge you not to. This is especially true for a beginner.

If I had started out with Devardi glass, I would not be making beads today. It is so shocky that you will be frustrated beyond belief. I bought it once, my arm got really tired from throwing all those shattering rods across my studio.

Three Muses Glass · #4 2012-04-11, 9:34am

You might have better luck at a welding supply place asking for 316L (or 308 ). That's just a designation for food grade stainless steel. They do last a long time but 1/16" get bent easily.

Bead release, yes. Humidity may take some part in whether it holds up or not. We are humid here most of the year but not like Miami. I use Fusion and it works well here.

Stainless steel tweezers in several sizes to me are a must have, but you can use needle nose pliers to pull stringers, pull the bubbles of the end of a rod, etc.

The garage sale here is a great place to buy things or put up a wanted ad. You never know who has an unused Hothead sitting around or some basic tools.

J2Creations · #5 2012-04-11, 9:40am

ok so any suggestions for good "begginer" glass at a reasonable price, i know i'm just going to goof everything up for a while so i don't wana waste "good" glass

So many nice people here

Three Muses Glass · #6 2012-04-11, 10:54am

Art Glass House is in Cocoa. Close to you and the prices are great for Effetre.
http://www.artglasshouse.com/
If you call them I'm sure they'll be able to put together a nice assortment for whatever your budget is.

J2Creations · #7 2012-04-11, 11:18am

I thought i read on one thread that art glass house is wholesale only?

eregel · #8 2012-04-11, 11:19am

I'd suggest skipping the fiber blanket - buy a $10 crockpot from Walmart and a bag of vermiculite from Home Depot or your local garden shop. Turn the crock pot on first thing when you're getting ready to start a session, then when you finish each bead heat it until it's the same temp all the way through, then hold it below the table and watch for it to stop glowing - then stick it in the vermiculite immediately. Turn the crock pot off when you finish the session, then JUST WALK AWAY for 4 or 5 hours until they're totally cool. I've had WAY better results since I started cooling my beads that way - it's still not as good as putting them straight into a kiln, but it's way better than the blanket.

You're going to WANT a whole bunch of tools, but you can absolutely get off to a great start with a stop at a dollar store and Harbor Freight. I bought a 2-pack of cheap paring knives at the dollar store that I use constantly; and at Harbor Freight you can get a cheap package of 5 or 6 double-ended dental tools and a package of large tweezers. I also picked up one of their big packs of small pliers - it had about 4 different types of needle-nose, a nipper, and a couple of other styles, and I use them ALL, a lot. You may also want to pick up one of their leather welding aprons - all depends on how freaked out you are about the prospect of getting burned.

Oh, and when you buy your fire extinguisher, pick up a carbon monoxide detector, too - I'm assuming that like most of us you're going to start out with less-than-ideal ventilation.

J2Creations · #9 2012-04-11, 11:29am

I LOVE HABOUR FREIGHT they just opened one by my house i never heard of them before that

as far as ventialtion i was planning on plopping my table in a shaded spot outside (one of the good things about Miami is the sunshine) crock pot and vermiculite are going on my list now. I think i'm going to start picking up my tools a bit at a time that way i don't get hit with the bill all at once

Pat & Rebecca you are awesomely helpful

Three Muses Glass · #10 2012-04-11, 11:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by J2Creations

I thought i read on one thread that art glass house is wholesale only?

They may still be wholesale for sheet glass and other things, I really don't know. Ron advertises in the Sale Rack here for lampworking rods.

steiconi · #11 2012-04-11, 2:40pm

mandrels, bead release, glass, safety glasses (technically, you don't need the didimiums for soft glass, but you'll do better with them)

torch, gas, (oxygen if using), hoses, (regulator if using oxygen) Dale mentioned that the MagnaTorch 245C is the same as a hot head, but cheaper; here's a link. http://www.ebay.com/itm/180779024266...84.m1439.l2649

fireproof work surface (big ceramic tiles work great, and you can marver on them)

fire extinguisher, closed shoes (preferably leather), long sleeve/ankle length natural fiber clothing (synthetics melt into your skin, and they're hot). An apron is nice, but make sure the neck is high so you don't wind up trapping hot glass against your chest or belly. Denim is a cheap alternative to leather; I modified a skirt from the thrift store.

I have my crockpot with vermiculite, light, and fan plugged into a power strip so I just flip one switch and everything comes on at once, and shut it down just as easily.

My #1 tool is needle nose pliers. Other favorites include a small pastry server and a cheap nail file, which is good for creasing the glass. You will soon have your own weird favorites.

It's very humid here (170" of rain/year) and I've been loving Fireworks bead release.

Try not to go crazy picking up too many colors of glass at first (it's hard, I know). Definitely start with black, white, and clear (I love Effetre Super Clear). You can practice most techniques with just these three, and you wind up with beads that all go together. But get some colors, too, 'cause they're fun!

Lee

essiemessy · #12 2012-04-11, 2:58pm

As well as the above, I'd recommend a bag of shorts/brokens if your supplier does those. They're great for practising, without having 'wasted' glass. Not that anything is wasted on PPP

In terms of clothing, in lieu of a leather apron, I simply wear a back-to-front tshirt or tank top. Nothing frilly, and eliminate any possibility of cleavage weld.

Tweezers are a must, and a marver. A big brass padlock is a good thing if you're waiting for a graphite one to arrive. I use the brass one to burnish silver foil and marver silvered beads - for some reason the silver fouls up my graphite.

Mashers are good, but I got by for a long time with some flattened ice tongs.

The dollar shop has all sorts of things to try out while you're deciding what 'good' tools you can save up for.

Oh, and always keep a jar of water on the table, to quench tools. And a big bucket of water nearby to dunk hands or other body parts into in case of the inevitible accident.

A couple of tiles also come in handy, to lay in front of the torch so that glass and other hot bits don't burn their way into the tabletop.

Lastly (because this is looking like a housesitter's instruction sheet

) keep drinks handy - it's hot work, even if it doesn't seem like it. All that concentration and time in THE ZONE is really tiring until you get used to it. You really do totally lose yourself (we had our yard broken into once while I was torching in my garden shed, in full view of whoever opened the car and side gates, and let the dog out!!), so bear that in mind.

And you're on your way!

Eileen · #13 2012-04-11, 3:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by J2Creations

I thought i read on one thread that art glass house is wholesale only?

I've bought from them several times now. They may have better pricing for the wholesale peeps, but they sell retail too (at nice prices). I agree with clear, white & black, and several of the colors are fairly cheap just to have something to play with if you want.
Also, put a "wanted" in the garage sale to see if someone who has shorts might want to sell them off reasonably to play with color. I use mine up, or down to 1/2" or so, but some people don't bother to use them once they're short. But ask what they mean by "short" or you will want to buy a rod holder so you don't burn your fingers, LOL!

Rebecca, thanks for catching the tig rod names, I don't know where that T stuff came from this morning!

And I can't imagine trying to do much without the didy's, since without them I can't see the bead when the flame is around it. I don't know about whether it's safe for your eyes without it, but I would say that for me they are a necessity.

Three Muses Glass · #14 2012-04-11, 3:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eileen

Rebecca, thanks for catching the tig rod names, I don't know where that T stuff came from this morning!

Hoses maybe? I know we need T-grade hoses...at least I think I know it. lol
I usually get kerfuzzled with numbers but I pounded 316L in my head.

essiemessy · #15 2012-04-11, 3:33pm

Ditto re the didys. Apart from eliminating the soda flare, I think there is some protection from damage over time. I read this somewhere, but I think eyesight is worth preserving full stop.
I melted glass for a few weeks before I got mine, and it was really hard working in a flame I could no longer see. That probably did my head in more than anything else! I'd therefore recommend you get some at the outset.

Eileen · #16 2012-04-11, 3:34pm

I have NO idea. Maybe the Tig stuck in there, I don't know, LOL.

J2Creations · #17 2012-04-11, 3:42pm

You are all fantastic, thank you so much for all the tips. The next trip to harbour freight that hubby drags me on I'll look for my picks and tweezers and start from there. I know ACE hardware sells mapp gas but are there any good online suppliers with a good price?
I can't wait to start with some of the free tuts I found here and on YouTube

Eileen · #18 2012-04-11, 3:45pm

It is expensive.
A lot of people use propane with a BBQ tank, but I don't know the specifics. I'm sure there are threads about it if you wanted to do a search though.
(And just to let you know in case you're unaware, if you're searching for something you have to use words of at least 4 letters, or use an astrisk as a "wild card", such as:

hothead propane bbq* tank

etc.

Sheila D. · #19 2012-04-11, 6:19pm

I got some free dental tools from my dentist, go figure! They had a whole pile of them that they don't use anymore and let me go through it.
I also agree on the didy's...a must.
And don't forget to have fun!

houptdavid · #20 2012-04-11, 6:22pm

Just forget the crockpot with vermiculite!!!!!!!!

j2canoe · #21 2012-04-12, 2:50am

I would suggest that you purchase a copy of Corina Tettinger's Passing The Flame - if you don't already have a copy. Also, Cindy Jenkins book is really helpful. I found the free tutorials here really great - but there is also a Wealth of free information and tutorials in the Glass section at http://www.wetcanvas.com. Everything from making little teapots to super-complicated beads! I wish you great luck and much fun with your new addiction!! Cheers! Joan

PerfectDeb · #22 2012-04-12, 4:28am

Give devardi a miss

As well as a torch and assorted madrels:

Buy black, white, ivory and some basic colours, periwinkle, red, pea green and clear in effetre or CiM

A graphite marver, a tungsten pick and tweezers, oh and bead release of course

Didys and a crock pot with vermiculite

Everything else will come as you gain confidence and are inspired by other bead makers

Dragonfly Queen · #23 2012-04-12, 7:54am

I agree a good beginners book. I started with Corina's Passing the flame, and I am glad I did, but there are others out there.
Look in the Garage sale constantly, there are always really good books and tools in there.

Hot head torch and MAPP gas to begin with is a good start. You can also upgrade this later on, but it will get you going almost immediately.

Bead reamers to clean your bead holes with. You can upgrade later to dremel & diamond bits later.

Make sure you get a quality marver (smooth surface). I made the mistake of getting a marver with a rough surface and it made it difficult to shape beads.

Mashers if you can afford them, but they can wait.

Tweezers - I use longer with serrated tips, but I also have smaller pair for finer work

Forceps - a nice to have but not necessary right away

Frit - try to keep to the same COE but not necessary as it is ok to use a small percentage of mixed COE, somebody else can probably tell you exact amounts.

Sushi dishes (holds dipping sauce) - flat as possible, can be bought at 99 cents store or target. Used to roll your bead in frit, you can also get Frit trays, but a tad bit more expensive.

Glass rods - initially try to stick with one COE

Labels - label all your glass when you purchase it with COE & color or ID # so if you find a color combo you really like you can repeat it and your COE's don't get mixed up.

Visit here often...lots of great information, great people willing to help out and tons of support.

Dragonfly Queen · #24 2012-04-12, 7:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by houptdavid

Just forget the crockpot with vermiculite!!!!!!!!

Why? I was thinking of doing this so I can batch anneal later.

Sheila D. · #25 2012-04-12, 8:28am

David, are you suggesting a kiln right off the bat? Could you be a little more specific?

J2Creations · #26 2012-04-12, 11:35am

Joan, Deb, Inez and sheila thank you

i was looking for a copy of passing the flame but it's over $60 most places so i'm going to have to scout it out, i didn't try ebay yet.

Yes, David please if you could let me know why you said no to the crock pot and vermiculite?

I'm not planning on selling anything for a while so it doesn't matter too much about annealing to me, i just want to start on improving my technique.

Eileen · #27 2012-04-12, 1:23pm

On the crock pot, I was told on another thread within the past week that the crock pot doesn't heat it high enough to make any difference. So I guess you could keep it in one for the insulating properties if you wanted, but they said heating it is not necessary.
It was also suggested to get annealling bubbles instead of the vermiculite, to avoid breathing the vermiculite dust.

Oh, and I found that my library had some good lampworking books until I found a few I could afford. My system will even find them through other library systems if requested at no charge, so you might want to check into your library to see what they have or can get.

Sheila D. · #28 2012-04-12, 3:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by J2Creations

Joan, Deb, Inez and sheila thank you

i was looking for a copy of passing the flame but it's over $60 most places so i'm going to have to scout it out, i didn't try ebay yet.

Yes, David please if you could let me know why you said no to the crock pot and vermiculite?

I'm not planning on selling anything for a while so it doesn't matter too much about annealing to me, i just want to start on improving my technique.

Amazon is a good place to look for PTF too.

eregel · #29 2012-04-12, 3:36pm

My crock pot gets hot enough that I use it to warm my pastel anice so it's not so shocky! And when I put beads in there, then turn it off, it's almost 2 hours before they're not so hot I can't touch them. I find that I have far better results than I had with fiber blankets.

Also, at my local Lowes Mapp gas cylinders are $9.87, but propane is only $3.67 for the same size. Personally, I find I do BETTER with propane than Mapp, no idea why, but I'm seriously glad!

Lisi · #30 2012-04-12, 3:46pm

Start off with 3/32" mandrels before you get the skinnier ones, the 1/16". Soon you will learn to not get the mandrel too hot while winding the glass on and melting the bead round. New lampworkers often bend or even snap the 1/16" because they get too hot. It's okay for the mandrel to glow a little while working, but not a really bright orange glow. This can bend or melt them, and they don't really melt, but they can snap off. Less likely you will break them off with too much heat and the HH torch, but it's possible to warp and bend them.