Lampwork Etc.
 
TrueDesign

LE Live Chat

Enter Live Chat

No users in chat


Donate via PayPal to donate@lampworketc.com

Beads of Courage


 

Go Back   Lampwork Etc. > Library > Safety

Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2009-08-23, 8:30pm
Laurie L's Avatar
Laurie L Laurie L is offline
HourGlass Studio
 
Join Date: Jun 12, 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,807
Default Lampworking VS Fusing - fumes

Hi all. Was hoping to get some answers here with reguards to toxic fumes in lampworking VS fusing. My parents and husband dont want me lampworking anymore. For the record I try to be safe and DO have ventilation.

Was asked this question and I honestly dont know how the two differ.

For example.....

1) How much toxic fume is produced from fusing glass in a kiln ?

2) If there is toxic fume....how bad would it be. Should the kiln be placed near my current ventilation setup ?

3) Wanted to add : What about PMC in the kiln (fumes)....how bad would they be ?

Thanks for your answers

Laurie
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Laurie L; 2009-08-23 at 8:34pm.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2009-08-23, 9:05pm
Puddy Tat Glass's Avatar
Puddy Tat Glass Puddy Tat Glass is offline
Critter Mom
 
Join Date: Dec 31, 2007
Location: Coquille, Oregon
Posts: 2,496
Default

Laurie I do lampworking and some fusing, no PMC yet. Usually while the kiln is open and the impurities are burning off, I leave the room. I return occasionally to check on things and then once I close the lid I don't worry about fumes. By the time I open the lid to flash cool there isn't anything left to create fumes. If I make my own mold from fiberboard then there are a lot of fumes and I don't spend any time in the studio while the form is cooking. I used to have some throat and chest problems while lampworking, but since I got my new ventilation system I haven't had those problems either.
__________________
Bonnie

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2009-08-24, 8:36am
Dale M.'s Avatar
Dale M. Dale M. is offline
Gentleman of Leisure
 
Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
Posts: 5,200
Default

For a fusing studio a light system of ventilation is probably a good idea, there are "some" impurities burned off the glass, and mold and from kiln parts.... A light ventilation system, something as simple as fan in window or a hood even as small as a typical stove hood over kiln will dilute and move the problem "toxics" around and out and you will probably be quite safe... If you cook on a gas appliance in the kitchen you are probable exposed to more danger than a fusing kiln in operation....

The real danger in lampworking where the torch flame continuously burns and is continuously producing carbon monoxide and nitrous oxide gasses in large volumes... That is why we stress high volume air exchange in AREA where torch is in operation....

The concerns are valid, should you stop flameworking, probably not unless you have sever respiratory problems..... Should you have good designed "positive" ventilation , yes..... You also need to educate those who love you about the safety in having good ventilation....

Dale
__________________
You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Vendor-Artist-Studio-Teacher Registry

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2009-08-24, 8:55am
Laurie L's Avatar
Laurie L Laurie L is offline
HourGlass Studio
 
Join Date: Jun 12, 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,807
Default

Thanks for the replies.

I just moved recently and may need to upgrade my vent system since its completly different now. Their concerns are.....toxic fumes.....cancer possibility.....lung health....lead issues....the list goes on.

They said that if I upgraded my vent system and used an approved resp mask that they might consider it okay. My Dad has lung cancer and he doesnt want me suffering like he is. His was most likely from smoking and working in chemicals that were not good for you.

I enjoy lampworking and hate to give it up but I am considering it. So I thought some fusing and buying lampwork to create my jewelry might be the best alternative.

DALE- I might be PMing you with my current studio set up and get your opinion on what is the minimum and max system I should now have. OH...and which glass is safer ( if thats possible) to work with....soft glass or boro ?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Laurie L; 2009-08-24 at 9:35am.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2009-08-25, 2:14pm
pierces*designs's Avatar
pierces*designs pierces*designs is offline
I'm the 1000th poster!!
 
Join Date: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 6,259
Default

Laurie, if you've followed my issues you might remember that I had air quality testing done at my house.

I use a barley box with a straight line 750 CFM vent through the roof. I have make up air behind me. I use NG and tanked oxy.

In my house there was a clear trail of VOCs leading to my studio. The standard for indoor air quality is not to be above 600. Inside my studio with no torch running it was 900. With the torch running it was 2000. That is extremely high.
__________________
Debbie P


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2009-08-25, 2:20pm
GlassyEyedGirl's Avatar
GlassyEyedGirl GlassyEyedGirl is offline
Did someone say SALE?
 
Join Date: Aug 20, 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 995
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pierces*designs View Post
Laurie, if you've followed my issues you might remember that I had air quality testing done at my house.

I use a barley box with a straight line 750 CFM vent through the roof. I have make up air behind me. I use NG and tanked oxy.

In my house there was a clear trail of VOCs leading to my studio. The standard for indoor air quality is not to be above 600. Inside my studio with no torch running it was 900. With the torch running it was 2000. That is extremely high.
Wow, those are some scary numbers! Who did your testing? Have you made changes since the readings were taken?
__________________
Beth
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2009-08-25, 3:35pm
pierces*designs's Avatar
pierces*designs pierces*designs is offline
I'm the 1000th poster!!
 
Join Date: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 6,259
Default

I had an indoor air quality specialist

http://www.eworldwire.com/pressreleases/15141

I now keep my studio door closed and a window open at all times. (a crack)

I am saving up for a VOC air cleaner like they use in nail salons.
__________________
Debbie P


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2009-08-25, 7:34pm
Laurie L's Avatar
Laurie L Laurie L is offline
HourGlass Studio
 
Join Date: Jun 12, 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,807
Default

Debbie I am not sure I understand what all this means....I never saw your posts about this. Might have to send you a PM. I know what VOC stands for but never realy put much thought into it.

So a VOC cleaner.....Hmmm...wonder where I would get something like that ?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Laurie L; 2009-08-25 at 7:38pm.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2009-08-25, 8:55pm
NMLinda NMLinda is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 21, 2008
Location: Herndon, VA
Posts: 867
Default

Laurie,

You can do lampworking safely if you carefully design your ventilation system. One good link for how to do this is:

http://mikeaurelius.wordpress.com/ventilation-primer/

I also recommend you go to the Art Glass Answers forum - many good posts there on ventilation and overall safety.

Debbie uses what I consider the safest ventilation approach - a barley box - with a hefty fan. Beth has posted pictures of her barley box in the past. I do my lampworking in a barley box vent system as well. I've calculated that, if the ventilation system is designed right, it should only take a second or two for the fumes to be pulled up and out of the vent hood. If I'm doing fuming or working with enamels or fine frit, I also use a respirator.

A well-designed system should keep you safe. If you happen to be very sensitive to fumes of any kind, like Debbie, you might have to do something more elaborate.

Linda
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2009-08-26, 4:49am
pierces*designs's Avatar
pierces*designs pierces*designs is offline
I'm the 1000th poster!!
 
Join Date: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 6,259
Default

Laurie, you shared with me that this started when you painted your house. You also moved. Is this house new? Are there new cabinets, furniture, etc? Chances are THAT is where your problem started. Now torching is aggravating it.

Do you live where you can keep your windows open and put fans pointing TOWARDS the windows to pull the air out? You really need to lower the overall VOCs in your home.

You can also get a VOC cleaner.. or 2. One for each level and move them around.

This is a fairly good independent review of Air Purifiers. You need to get one with a high carbon load that is specifically for VOCs.

The average cost is 800-1000. I am saving up.

From the expert I spoke to this one or one of the IQ air VOC specific cleaners are the best. From my own reading, this one seems to be the best:

http://www.air-purifiers-usa.biz/all...irpurifier.php

Here is a good independent review of cleaners:

http://www.air-purifier-power.com/in...r-quality.html

I have not been able to give up my torching. I do other things to lower overall VOCs. Throw away all your harsh cleaners. I just wrote a review in the bathroom last night about using Method Le Scrub cleaner to clean my shower. 2 Weeks ago I did the spray Tilex, run, then come back 12 hours later. Even waiting that long my face swelled up and I suffered breathing problems because I slept in the next room.

I avoid perfumes, exhaust, heavy scents. It is now a way of life. (Living with a 20 yr old who wears tons of perfume is a killer. Her room had a VOC level of 850. )
__________________
Debbie P


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2009-08-26, 4:54am
pierces*designs's Avatar
pierces*designs pierces*designs is offline
I'm the 1000th poster!!
 
Join Date: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 6,259
Default

Also Laurie, if the house you moved into has new/newer carpet, that is a HUGE problem. When we lived in our other house, even before all this started I had to leave any new carpeting outside for 3 weeks to off-gas before installing and even then had problem. I am severely allergic (almost deadly allergic) to formaldehyde.

Now we are slowly removing all the carpet and replacing it with Laminate. I cannot be home when carpet is removed because the fumes when it is pulled up cause me so many problems.
__________________
Debbie P


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2009-08-26, 6:42am
GlassyEyedGirl's Avatar
GlassyEyedGirl GlassyEyedGirl is offline
Did someone say SALE?
 
Join Date: Aug 20, 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 995
Default

I also wear a respirator all the time at the torch, no matter what materials I am working with. P100 filters replaced monthly.

Back to the original question.
1. Since fusing temps of glass are much lower than melting temps at the torch, I would guess that not so many fumes would potentially be released by the glass itself.
2. As was stated above, the heat is produced by metal coils and electricity, not by burning fuel, which I would also guess to produce less toxic compounds.
3. No idea about PMC, but again a guess would be that the temps needed to fire pmc in a kiln would be much less than by a torch vaporizing the metals found in silver glass and fine silver.

Disclaimer: These things are just a guess on my part. I do not claim to be an expert, just making some (hopefully logical) assumptions. So you might want to do more research!

If you think ventilation is required, I would not think it would be hard to set up a simple exhaust fan to run while the kiln is operational. My kiln says it can be enclosed and only requires one side to be open, so a Barley box type setup would work nicely.

Good luck with the setup!
__________________
Beth
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2009-08-26, 8:16am
stereoette stereoette is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 09, 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 102
Default

in my experience, its been other things than glass that have created nasty fumes from my kiln - ie, certain types of fiber paper/blanket. I'm also told that if you use cork or anything to create an armiture in your PMC that will also burn off some nasty fumes.

For fusing, I actually use a super strong air purifier next to my kiln to keep the nasties down to a minimum.
__________________
Joi

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

handmade with my headphones on...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2009-08-26, 3:32pm
Laurie L's Avatar
Laurie L Laurie L is offline
HourGlass Studio
 
Join Date: Jun 12, 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,807
Default

Debbie...yes, the house is 1 year old. We re-painted and the painters were told to use low VOC paint but they didnt. We just had new cabinets put in the kitchen (only half the kitchen was done and same with the bathrooms) and 2 bathrooms, the carpet is 1 year old but I still smell it. We had painters re paint all the trim aswell. New hardwood was put in the basement and new laminate in my studio as well as newly painted walls, ceiling, trim (in studio) etc...

Smells irritate the hell outof me lately. LOL. Seriously. I went to the rock and garden shop today and I couldnt stand the rock dust smell. I had to leave.

This all started shortyly after we moved and started doing the renovations. I never thought much of this...untill now.


So yes, this could very well be the problem.

I do have a barley box for my lampwork area....my fan should be upgraded though since the move. The old studio had 14 foot ceilings, this one has 8 & 9'...the other studio was about 1400 sq ft...the new one only is about 400 ( i thought it was bigger but...nope. LOL) there is very little air movement in my new studio....the old studio had alot of air movement.

I have torched 3 times since moving here....opened the door for fresh air, but because there is no movement (well, other than from the ventilation system) the air doesnt feel right around the torch where I am sitting ( not like it used to anyways).

I dont put anything in my kiln other than glass.

I was wondering what type of mask to wear, so thanks for the info on that. Are they safe to wear for a couple hours at a time ???

Thanks to EVERYONE for the great suggestions. This is really helping...ALOT!!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Laurie L; 2009-08-26 at 5:42pm. Reason: added content for it to make sense
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2009-08-26, 7:27pm
Dale M.'s Avatar
Dale M. Dale M. is offline
Gentleman of Leisure
 
Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
Posts: 5,200
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pierces*designs View Post
Laurie, if you've followed my issues you might remember that I had air quality testing done at my house.

I use a barley box with a straight line 750 CFM vent through the roof. I have make up air behind me. I use NG and tanked oxy.

In my house there was a clear trail of VOCs leading to my studio. The standard for indoor air quality is not to be above 600. Inside my studio with no torch running it was 900. With the torch running it was 2000. That is extremely high.
That tells me your ventilation is not working.......

Dale
__________________
You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Vendor-Artist-Studio-Teacher Registry

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2009-08-27, 8:33am
pierces*designs's Avatar
pierces*designs pierces*designs is offline
I'm the 1000th poster!!
 
Join Date: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 6,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale M. View Post
That tells me your ventilation is not working.......

Dale
Dale, just curious, have you ever had high level voc testing done in a studio, both with and without torches running? Lots of people talk about NOX and CO2 but not a lot discuss VOC.

I have searched the internet for studies. One was a report written in the late 90s. The testing equipment now is so much more sensitive.

As far as my ventilation? I have done all the smoke tests, etc. If a piece of silver is inside my vent it gets sucked up in seconds.

The expert I spoke to says it is due to combustion inside the home. In addition to all the "stuff" we lampworkers have in a studio like frits, release, etc.
__________________
Debbie P


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 3:01am.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Your IP: 3.89.56.228