Wow! 22K gold fume

LarryC · #1 2011-07-11, 6:47pm

Did my first gold fumed implosion marble tonight. All I can say is

I am using 22K double leaf that I bought from Ron here on the forum. It came out spectacular compared to the silver ones I have done. On the punty under florescent lighting it had a lime green hue with a slight blue hue at the base. Any tips or suggestions of things to try to enhance or vary the effect?

Truewealth · #2 2011-07-12, 5:37am

It's just wrong to talk about something that sounds so gorgeous and NOT show a picture......

Cosmo · #3 2011-07-12, 6:12am

Try combining silver and gold fuming. You can get most any color in the rainbow by playing with the ratios.

Gold fuming backed with white gives a nice hot pink as well.

LarryC · #4 2011-07-12, 7:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truewealth

It's just wrong to talk about something that sounds so gorgeous and NOT show a picture......

Here ya go...

LarryC · #5 2011-07-12, 7:41am

Cosmo, This one was gold only. Gotta experiment with the combo of gold and silver. The hot pink sounds nice. Guess it's time to start taking notes, huh?

Juln · #6 2011-07-12, 7:59am

Hey, that is really nice! Love the stand too.

Odd that this would be gold only. Usually gold alone is very orange, with a pinkish hue when looking through it. This is an example of typical heavy pure gold fume http://ny-image3.etsy.com/il_fullxfull.185345411.jpg and not so heavy: http://www.eugeneglassschool.org/cla...onePendant.jpg

The green like that typical comes from gold mixed with a small amount of silver. I wonder if maybe the non-gold impurities in the 22k produced this effect? Whichever way it looks great.

LarryC · #7 2011-07-12, 8:21am

The 22K was all I could find. Gold coins are pretty pricey and I actually like working with the foil. Got any good sources for small amounts of 24K? I have decent ventilation but I am using a respirator as well. Anyone else do this?

Cosmo · #8 2011-07-12, 8:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juln

Hey, that is really nice! Love the stand too.

Odd that this would be gold only. Usually gold alone is very orange, with a pinkish hue when looking through it. This is an example of typical heavy pure gold fume http://ny-image3.etsy.com/il_fullxfull.185345411.jpg and not so heavy: http://www.eugeneglassschool.org/cla...onePendant.jpg

The green like that typical comes from gold mixed with a small amount of silver. I wonder if maybe the non-gold impurities in the 22k produced this effect? Whichever way it looks great.

It may be the impurities. I only use 22k, and with just a light fume I get green every time.

Truewealth · #9 2011-07-12, 9:55am

Larry...it is gorgeous and I like the stand as well!

Thanks for the pic!

j2canoe · #10 2011-07-12, 10:02am

WOW!!!!! Stellar!!!!

Juln · #11 2011-07-12, 3:49pm

22k and 24k are usually about the same for me, I think? It does depend on your source. River gold, refined gold and other types have different metal impurities. Many people prefer 22k over 24k since it can 'stick' a bit easier while and after application. You can most likely buy any amount at a local coin shop or gold & silver dealer.

Yes, I wear a respirator when working with fuming or high metal powders/frits if possible. It's pretty inconvenient if you're blowing, though - using a blowhose helps a bit there.

LarryC · #12 2011-07-12, 4:27pm

I think I have a local source for a small amount of 24K. When I get a chance I will try this same marble again and post the results. Since 22K has some silver in it, I am betting the result will be different.

Cornbread · #13 2011-07-12, 7:53pm

wow!! killer piece!

Over the Moon · #14 2011-07-13, 2:59am

Gorgeous! Love the stand too...

Shrimp · #15 2011-07-13, 4:13am

She's a beauty Larry! Love the clarity of the clear. Nice display.

alb6094 · #16 2011-07-13, 6:00am

Gorgeous Larry! The stand rocks as well, nice hand.

glassdog · #17 2011-07-13, 6:58am

LarryC,
If you want to use 24k gold, try getting a peice of it from Rio Grande. you can use the one that is used for gold plating, using sisors, just cut it into small bits about the size of half of a pen head. Pick the peice up like you would be attaching a punty, hot glass on cold gold. It works great for me.
Mike

e. mort · #18 2011-07-13, 6:54pm

Your fuming will also vary depending on which brand of clear you are using. I mostly use Simax, but when I want that nice blue color for silver fume, then I pull out my stash of Kimax.

LarryC · #19 2011-07-13, 10:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by e. mort

Your fuming will also vary depending on which brand of clear you are using. I mostly use Simax, but when I want that nice blue color for silver fume, then I pull out my stash of Kimax.

This is on Simax clear. I have been able to get that nice blue with silver on Simax Clear but it does go white if I overdue it. 22K Gold, though, seems to work best with a pretty heavy fume compared to silver. I will have to get some Kimax rod to try it out. I have been working with glass in some form for more than 5 years now and it still amazes me...Fun material to work with. Thanks for the info everyone.

Cosmo · #20 2011-07-14, 8:56am

Kimble works best for me for fuming. At least for silver. For gold it doesn't really matter that I've seen. Pretty much any of the fumed pieces I've posted here or on my site are all Kimble glass. The only problem with Kimble is it doesn't play nice with silver-based colors. For the same reason it works well with silver fuming, it doesn't work well with colors. They tend to go all cloudy and milky.

LarryC · #21 2011-07-14, 10:07am

Has Kimble gone out of business? I seem to recall something about that in my travels.

Frit Diva · #22 2011-07-14, 11:03am

24K wire is super easy to use for fuming... and you can buy it from Rio in quantities as small as 1/2 dwt (dwt=pennyweight, about 1/20th of an oz as I recall). Same technique as Mike describes below. I usually cut a bit of wire maybe 1/16th of an inch long and imbed it in a rod.

Jo

Quote:

Originally Posted by glassdog

LarryC,
If you want to use 24k gold, try getting a peice of it from Rio Grande. you can use the one that is used for gold plating, using sisors, just cut it into small bits about the size of half of a pen head. Pick the peice up like you would be attaching a punty, hot glass on cold gold. It works great for me.
Mike

Juln · #23 2011-07-14, 1:53pm

Kimax seems to be widely available, and as there's no indication they are not in business:

http://www.gerresheimer.com/en/compa...ducts-llc.html
http://www.kimble-chase.com/

I've recently learned that the difference in fuming properties is due to different oxidation states in the clear glass formulas. Abe Fleischman from Northstar posted over on a Melting Pot thread,

Quote:

. We also use 3 different types of glass to make our colors Kimble, Simax and Schott each glass has different chemistry so we use the glass we feel is best for the color, this also adds a lot more money to the cost of making color.

Simax is used due to the fact it has the highest oxidation state of all the borosilicate glass available today, and just like your torch you need a lot of oxygen to keep the AP family clear before striking.

We use Schott due to the fact that the glass has a more neutral oxidation state so it does not effect colors chemistry like the opaques and blacks.

Kimble is used due to the fact that is has the highest reduction state of the clears so using colors like Carmel you need glass that strikes dark and rich.

Hope this helps
Abe

Which pretty much explains the bright results using color on Simax, and muddier results with Kimble.

AcidFly · #24 2011-07-15, 2:51am

hi hi,
hey i get my gold from a member right here

his name is GoldSmithy "http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/member.php?u=12292". his prices are standard and well why not support anther glass blower

From what i know he refined / recycles the gold and its clean 24K stuff. I have been using it for some time now and it works great

Throw him a pm and he can tell you more and what he has and prices

I believe he has 24k, 22k, and silver and it comes in nice little BB's

ready to use.
Just thought I would let you guys know as over on melt he supplies alot of us with it

and again why not get it from a member when the price is better or the same

Thanks
AcidFly

LarryC · #25 2011-07-23, 9:50am

Finally got some 24K at a local jeweler and did this one. I do prefer business with local folks. Got a small disk that should last a very long time for $60....Just at market price. Thought I would post a pic to show the difference between 22K foil and 24K. Definitely more color variation in this one and the blue center is an eye opener for me. I am beginning to understand that there is a relationship between the metal thickness and the resulting color.

gmkcpa · #26 2011-07-27, 1:41pm

Just went to www.riogrande.com and they are selling 22k gold wire (18 gauge = 1mm) in minimum 4.5 inch length for about $90 + whatever they get for shipping, etc. Anyone buy from them before? Is this an OK deal?

And does it matter if I get hard, half hard or dead soft? To my wife it matters, but for fuming does it matter?

Juln · #27 2011-07-29, 6:20pm

Nice marble, Larry! It seems odd to me that it's not orange/pink, though. Are you sure there wasn't any silver on your fuming rod or anything like that?

Hey gmkcpa, it doesn't matter glass-wise how the metal is annealed, but for ease of cutting pieces dead soft is nice.

Rio Grande is a good metal supplier. You might pay a bit more buying it in a shape like wire, though because the processing usually adds a small premium. Ingots or raw river gold pebbles are the most economical in my experience, because you're just paying for the weight.

LarryC · #28 2011-07-29, 9:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmkcpa

J

And does it matter if I get hard, half hard or dead soft? To my wife it matters, but for fuming does it matter?

Might make it harder to pick up on a punty. I am really liking the ease of use with the metal foils. Its a bit more expensive but I do find it hard to get a small chunk of solid gold to stick without wanting to roll around in the heat. Foils melt flat immediately and stay put. Worth the extra cost to me.

LarryC · #29 2011-07-29, 9:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juln

Nice marble, Larry! It seems odd to me that it's not orange/pink, though. Are you sure there wasn't any silver on your fuming rod or anything like that?

Yup. Tested as 24K and it went onto a clean punty. I get a lot of different colors (green, white, blue, orange, and yellow) with gold depending on a lot of factors which I dont have complete control over yet. Among them seem to be fume thickness, and flame chemistry both during and after the fuming. I am working on it though. Now that you mention it I have never seen pink so far. Cyan Blue is hard to achieve but it does come out in some of these. You can see it in the center of this one where I intentionally left the fume thin. The blue is beautiful and unfortunately the least reliable for me. I suspect these colors will vary depending on the base clear used as well. So many variables to explore.

Juln · #30 2011-07-30, 12:02am

I used a few golds starting out, but bought a 10g 24k Credit Suisse ingot. The color for me was always orange. I never got anything but orange, except when mixed with silver, so that's interesting. By pink, I mean the the inverse of the orange, that is transmitted (when you look through the glass).