Is my Chili Pepper Kiln broken?

[Solana]

Hey everyone! I was hoping you all could help me determine if I need to have my kiln repaired or if there is something I can do to resolve the issue.

I purchased a Chili Pepper kiln in July 04 and have already needed to replace the heating element (last year). However, today I experienced another issue I believe is unrelated to the heating element.

I've been in a beading slump for the past couple of months and just turned on the kiln today for the first time in 10 weeks. After finishing my first bead, I noticed the temperature reading on the kiln was still at room temperature. Thinking the heating element had gone out on it again, I removed it to find it was still in tact. I tried starting the kiln again, and realized the power relay light wasn't coming on (my kiln uses an Orton controller). The digital display still shows the temperature and allows me to select a program, however, the relay appears to not be receiving power.

Has anyone experienced this issue? If so, what did you do to resolve it?

I'm totally bummed out that my kiln isn't working since I REALLY want to make beads and to break this slump. Any help would be appreciated!

Thank you!

Karla

[bhhco]

When the controller 'senses' the kiln's temperature is less than the programmed temperature (for ramp up operation) it allows 24V to pass from a transformer to the heating coil relay, to energize the relay. When the relay closes, 120V is passed throught the relay to the heating coil and the 'light' comes on.

So... the first and most likely culprit is the relay. They wear out AND they are not sealed units... which means they will rust inside and not move, especially if not 'moved' in some time. Or, next in line is the transformer (120V to 24/12V Center)... but they usually 'burn out' while in use. Or, last in line, The Controller, and frankly I don't have clue about what on board the controller might fail.

I'd start with swapping out the relay. I've replaced two relays in three years, but I run it 12 hrs/day, at least 5 days per week. Essentially, I'm pushing it like it was a heavy duty industrial kiln, versus a price-conscious annealer.

Me

[Solana]

Thanks, bhhco! I have a hunch that you're right, and it's the relay. As such, what does it take to replace one? Is it expensive? Can I do it myself, or will I have to send it back to the manufacturer?

I only use my kiln about 2 times a week (on average) when I'm actually making beads, so I know I wasn't pushing it like an industrial kiln.

Thanks again!

[bhhco]

Yes, it's easy to replace... once you get to it inside the same 'box' the controller is in.

Here's what it looks like:

http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebComme...KU=66F3425&N=0

I've been told the kiln maker has the parts (but I don't know their phone number)...I bought my relays from Blue Moon Glassworks, Austin Texas (Jim seems to have everything in his store).

http://www.austinbluemoon.com/pages/generalinfo.php



UPDATE! See LavenderCreek post (#5) following this post. Both my Chilli's are Bartlett controllers. Orton controllers may have a different wiring although I have compared the wiring diagrams for both, and the basic control hardware is the same... one relay.

Note: The following link is a PDF file wiring diagram for the Orton controller, and requires a PDF reader (Adobe Reader).

http://www.ortonceramic.com/resource...l_RampHold.pdf

I'd suggest contacting kiln maker for verification. Thank you LC.

As a side note... relays are normally designed for 100,000 operations (cycles)at the rated amperage. For a kiln like the Chilli, and it's 'normal cycle time' holding at annealing temp, a relay rated only at the kilns amperage would last only about 400 hours. HOWEVER, if a relay is used that is rated for 2X the kiln amperage, then it normally lasts 10X as long (it's a 'relay thing'). A 2X relay is used inside the Chilli... thus it 'should' last 4,000+ hours -- assuming it does not rust, or internally arc too much. Unfortunately, some environs (like mine), are quite 'humid' and the relay rusts up and fails. (It doesn't help that I live on a coastal island where I have to replace a rusted out BBQ grill every year ).

(end of update)

Me

[LavenderCreek]

I think this kiln/controller has 2 relays? Mine went bad several months ago and my husband replaced both of the relays at that time, he also bought a few extras, because this kiln is famous for this problem. Maybe, if you only replaced one of the relays, it is the other one that has gone bad this time.

We didn't buy the relays from the company, but they told me what to get. We bought relays at a car parts shop, these are relays for adding extra headlights to a car, they work fine and were cheap. I haven't had a problem since.

[smutboy420]

The max rated voltage for them tyco relays.
Are only rated 12 volts. You are going to need a relay or better yet a solid state relay rated for 120 volts (or 240 for a 240v kiln)and atleast 30% higher amp rating then the kiln will draw.

[bhhco]

Originally Posted by smutboy420

The max rated voltage for them tyco relays.
Are only rated 12 volts. You are going to need a relay or better yet a solid state relay rated for 120 volts (or 240 for a 240v kiln)and atleast 30% higher amp rating then the kiln will draw.

Yes, the Tyco is rated 12VDC (5-12 VDC) for the coil which closes the relay. But the load side of the relay is rated 20A/10A @ 240VAC, UL resistive (i.e. for a kiln heating element), which is 200%+ higher than the amp rating the kiln will draw.

A solid state relay would be more reliable, but would require a PID controller to replace the Orton.

I did wonder/ponder about the relay one poster purchased at their local auto parts store. Seems to me that would be low amp DC only relay. But apparently the manufacturer suggested it, and it's working.

Me

[smutboy420]

Yes, the Tyco is rated 12VDC (5-12 VDC) for the coil which closes the relay. But the load side of the relay is rated 20A/10A @ 240VAC

Ok that makes more sence now.

A solid state relay would be more reliable, but would require a PID controller to replace the Orton

If its got a 12 volt relay output it should be able to drive the input side of a 3-32 volt SSR.
Some ssr's even come in 32-300 volt ac/dc coil If the orton only has 110vac relay output. Tho if the orton does not allow you to set the relay timing You would need to make sure the SSR was rated for continuios use.

[Rose Leslie]

Hi, I'm having the same problem. It is the relay switch. It is easy to fix. If you call them then you will get a replacement to put into the controler. I have had to put one in before. Still love the kiln. Good luck.

[SuzyQ]

Call Jen Ken and get a relay. I think it is under $10 and not hard to replace.

[smutboy420]

If you can get 2 even. Sence they do ware out eventualy. then next time if it goies out you will have one ready with out having any down time.

[ukiacat]

I had a problem where the kiln would reach the right temp and then shut down. The Jen-Ken guys were really nice and helpful. One phone call was all it took [along with the serial number of the kiln] and they diagnosed the trouble as the Relay. It was shipped 2nd day/no charge because the kiln was barely a year old. When I got the part, I called the company and the very nice tech guy told me all the steps for removing and replacing the relay. He waited on the phone while I did most of it. I have an Orton controller. You'll need a socket wrench in order to do the work. I'm sure you can handle this.

Jennifer

[Solana]

Thanks guys! I called Jen-ken to confirm the relay, and you all are correct! Those things apparently only last 2 years or so, and they said mine did pretty well going as long as it did.

Anyway, they're sending me the new part (which costs $15 + shipping), so I hope to have it next week. I'm supposed to call them when I get the part, so they can walk me through replacement. (whew!)

Also, to be on the safe side, I ordered a new heating element, since you KNOW as soon as I get the relay working the element will go out.

I'll keep you all updated with my kiln's "condition".

Thanks again!

[smutboy420]

Also, to be on the safe side, I ordered a new heating element, since you KNOW as soon as I get the relay working the element will go out.

Well now that you planed ahead and got the extra element it won't go out.
Murphies law.

[Solana]

True...but it will eventually!

[Solana]

Okay...I've got the relay but don't quite know how to fix it. I tried to call Jen Ken, but I think they're closed. I don't get home early enough for them to help me install the new relay. Anyone care to help?

I HAVE to make beads soon! I'm going crazy!!!!

Thanks!

[bhhco]

1. Unplug the kiln.

The hardest part is getting to the relay. You have replaced the heating coil before, so you have removed/opened the control box before. Remove/open the control box.

2. Inside the control box you will find the same relay screwed onto the box wall.

3. IF the two relays look the same... then one wire at a time, unplug each wire from the old relay and plug it into the same position on the new relay. (IF the two relays don't look the same, then Stop and post for different instructions).

4. After you have removed the all the wires from the old relay, and plugged them all into the new relay, then unscrew the old relay from the box and screw the new relay in.

Finally, re-attach/close the control box, plug in the kiln, and start it.
Me

[Solana]

Thank you! While you were posting, I went out and tried my hand at it. I ended up doing exactly what you said, though I unplugged a few other wires to reach the relay easier. The hardest part was getting the nuts back onto the screws. Thankfully, a little silly putty and a flathead screwdriver helped me get those back on.

I just turned on the kiln and was giddy when I saw the pilot light come on! When I went inside, the kiln was already near 80 degrees! Woo hoo!

Thanks again for your help!!!

I'll be a beadmakin' fool tonight!!!

[villa design]

YAY!!! Karla can make pretty beads again!