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  #31  
Old 2008-03-12, 7:55pm
margaret margaret is offline
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Originally Posted by Bead_bug View Post
I have a funnel type system. I used an old gas lamp for the funnel section. My fan sucks so well that if a dot flys off from not being kept heated it sucks them right up and I can hear it run clear through the whole system.

Here is a photo.



I didn't do the whole hood thing with the sides because it made me feel to confined. This passes the insense test with flying colors. I will soon be running this with all hard line once we get moved. The soft line was just a temp fix.
I was wondering where/how you got your beautiful glass storage system? i am looking for something more attractive than my collection of gutter pieces.
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  #32  
Old 2008-03-13, 5:50am
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We have the funnel system in our teaching studio and it works well. We use 6" ducting, but are switching over to 8" this weekend. For the way our studio is laid out, it just wasn't practical to build a hood. The funnel system works great for what we are doing.

I also have a similar system at home, but using 10" ducting. It will literally suck the hat off your head...
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  #33  
Old 2008-06-08, 10:27am
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I just came back to this tread sorry for not answering you sooner Margaret.

My glass storage is just the fence posts from Menards that are for horse fencing. They have 3 sections in each piece. The holders are just upside down 12x12 cubbie units from Target with a shelf all the way across the whole business to hold up the hood.
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  #34  
Old 2008-06-08, 11:55am
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A "fume test" that's recommended by my local Workman's Compensation Board is to use an incense stick. Light the stick and move it to every position in your work station that you might be generating fumes from. If the fumes are all directed out the exhaust, your exhaust system works the way it should. If there is some spot that doesn't thoroughly exhaust the fumes, you need to improve or adapt your system.

Although there are numerus formulas for what should work, the field inspectors consider this test to be acceptably accurate. I understand a similar test is used to test efficiency of home heat exchanger systems.

FWIW, I've seen numerous fume extraction installations that easily passed this test but were considerably lower capacity than is so frequently recommended on internet boards. Perhaps, like many things, the design is as important as the capacity.

One thing that was adamantly stressed by WCB, but I don't recall ever seeing mentioned on the boards, is duct elbows. WCB suggests that 90 deg elbows never be used but instead use double 45 deg.
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  #35  
Old 2008-08-08, 8:15am
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Dennis...............

Do you mean 2-- 45 degree elbows together?
Will that not make the same turn as one 90??

Or.....do you mean 2 45's at different positions to get tot the same angle?

Going to be installing soon and wnat to clear up the confusion.

Thanks!

Sue
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  #36  
Old 2008-08-08, 9:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szglassy View Post
Dennis...............

Do you mean 2-- 45 degree elbows together?
Will that not make the same turn as one 90??

Or.....do you mean 2 45's at different positions to get tot the same angle?

Going to be installing soon and wnat to clear up the confusion.

Thanks!

Sue
I mean 2 - 45 deg elbows connected together to produce the 90 deg bend. The wider arc causes less air flow resistance. Even better would be a wide arc curve (these are available for metal ducting but are pretty pricey).

For at least 40 years, the plumbing code for drains and vents stated specifically that in any run of drain or vent, one only 90 was permitted but an unlimited number of 45's was allowed. If the experts insist that makes a critical difference for venting plumbing drains, it's reasonable to assume it'll make a significant difference for venting torching fumes.

Compare it to a road. A corner slows flow down more then a curve. The wider the curve, the less it slows down. On a really wide curve, you can travel the same speed as a straight run. When you install your ducting, think of it like building a road where you want traffic to keep moving steadily without having anywhere it has to slow down.

There has been extensive discussion on the needs for a high capacity fan. There are factors that will DEFINITELY reduce the size of fan needed:

1. The closer the hood is to the torch, the less fan capacity is needed.
2. The more enclosed the work area is, the less fan capacity is needed.
3. The lower the ducted air flow obstruction, the less fan capacity is needed.
4. The less other air movement, the less fan capacity is needed.

The 125 rule is a guideline only. It is NOT a commandment from God and it is NOT a legal requirement.
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  #37  
Old 2008-08-09, 5:14am
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Thanks Dennis. I get what you are saying. Now I have to explain it to my installer.

............ and for sure just glad to clear up the great mystery about the 11th commandment
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  #38  
Old 2010-09-29, 10:05am
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Has anyone ever used a portable fume extractor? I am adverse to cutting a hole in my wall for ventilation. I have a large, finished basement with a 10 x 10 room off of it for my lampworking. I have been using Mapp gas but want to move up to a cricket.
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  #39  
Old 2010-09-29, 12:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryfair View Post
Has anyone ever used a portable fume extractor? I am adverse to cutting a hole in my wall for ventilation. I have a large, finished basement with a 10 x 10 room off of it for my lampworking. I have been using Mapp gas but want to move up to a cricket.

i worse that you think. you need to cut 2 holes into your studio...one for ventilation and another one for makeup air. and they need to be at least 6 inches, maybe 8 inches in diameter. a fume extractor has to be ventilated directly outside.
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  #40  
Old 2010-09-29, 12:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryfair View Post
Has anyone ever used a portable fume extractor? I am adverse to cutting a hole in my wall for ventilation. I have a large, finished basement with a 10 x 10 room off of it for my lampworking. I have been using Mapp gas but want to move up to a cricket.
Portable units that use filters do not "work" for lampworking....

You need "flow through" ventilation as Mark notes...

Much has already been written on this forum about how to properly assemble an effective ventilation system....

Also there is also "special" issues using a basement as a studio.... You may find this a informative read....

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...php?f=12&t=430

Dale
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  #41  
Old 2010-09-29, 5:23pm
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Does anyone use these for larger torches? I have a redmax which isn't top of the heap, but certainly plenty hot. I'd like to switch to a funnel instead, but I don't want to melt anything using it.
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  #42  
Old 2010-09-30, 8:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menty666 View Post
Does anyone use these for larger torches? I have a redmax which isn't top of the heap, but certainly plenty hot. I'd like to switch to a funnel instead, but I don't want to melt anything using it.
As long as you use all metal components, you should be fine, but I would use at least a 8" duct with a 10" or 12" cone.
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  #43  
Old 2010-09-30, 9:14am
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Thanks!
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  #44  
Old 2010-10-01, 5:11am
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Tom, I use a funnel (12") with 8" ducting with my Mirage. I have tested it from every spot in my garage and also the hallway leading to the garage. If I rage out the flame it shoots straight into the funnel and it doesn't get hot.
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  #45  
Old 2010-10-01, 5:44am
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Sweet!!!, thanks!

It's definitely something to contemplate then...
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  #46  
Old 2010-10-01, 7:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuskinDesigns View Post
Tom, I use a funnel (12") with 8" ducting with my Mirage. I have tested it from every spot in my garage and also the hallway leading to the garage. If I rage out the flame it shoots straight into the funnel and it doesn't get hot.
What is CFM of fan you are using....

Dale
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  #47  
Old 2010-10-01, 8:36am
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850 cfm
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  #48  
Old 2010-10-01, 5:09pm
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I found the receipt for mine today while looking for something else. I've got an 800 cfm unit
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  #49  
Old 2010-12-10, 9:23pm
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I am setting up my stations and would like to hear your opinions thoughts.I hope this sketch up picture works. well if it does this would be the main cabinet. ventilation is my main question. The hole is 10" but can be bigger. My normal height of flame is just below the middle. Would this be a good way or do I go with a hood and make all them corners with the duct. I am thinking of doing it this way for ease, less bends and less length of duct used. This way I have 5ft then one turn up and 4ft. straight out. the big cylinder is a rubber maid garbage can I'm making into a muffler and the 720 CFM inline fan will also sit in there. Fan first then muffler. Filled with that white stuff you fill cushions with. Did some research and it's said to be safe.

Cabinet is 48" wide 16 " deep then the added table makes it 32" deep

There is a foot deep gass trap also.
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  #50  
Old 2010-12-10, 9:25pm
MonsterheadGlassArts MonsterheadGlassArts is offline
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There we go.


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  #51  
Old 2010-12-11, 9:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterheadGlassArts View Post
I am setting up my stations and would like to hear your opinions thoughts.I hope this sketch up picture works. well if it does this would be the main cabinet. ventilation is my main question. The hole is 10" but can be bigger. My normal height of flame is just below the middle. Would this be a good way or do I go with a hood and make all them corners with the duct. I am thinking of doing it this way for ease, less bends and less length of duct used. This way I have 5ft then one turn up and 4ft. straight out. the big cylinder is a rubber maid garbage can I'm making into a muffler and the 720 CFM inline fan will also sit in there. Fan first then muffler. Filled with that white stuff you fill cushions with. Did some research and it's said to be safe.

Cabinet is 48" wide 16 " deep then the added table makes it 32" deep

There is a foot deep gass trap also.
Only problem with concept is "muffler" stuffed with "white stuff you fill cushions with" will reduce air flow and ventilation will be less effective.... Also muffler material will trap heavy metals and dust and grits over time it will become a real toxic disposal problem... Suggest you drop muffler idea....

Also how high is front opening.... IF it is more than 18 inches (we already know width is 48 inches) fan will probably be to small....

Dale
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  #52  
Old 2010-12-11, 11:49pm
MonsterheadGlassArts MonsterheadGlassArts is offline
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Right now the opening is 48x22 I could go a couple inches lower. but 48 is quite a bit of space. I could shorten that span by storing my rods on the sides in slotted shelving. Or would the space be fine if the exhaust was on top? so with my fan and that shelving unit ok Doesn't have to be that unit for I have a bunch of tables, desks and such. what would you recommend or any ideas anyone can throw at me would be great. I have a piece of cement board for the table. I'm gonna paint it all in chalk board paint so i can write them spur of the moment ideas down.

now the muffler can wait. so i wont worry about that now
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  #53  
Old 2010-12-12, 7:45pm
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A 48" x 22" opening requires a fan of about 916 CFM if you subscribe to the accepted 125CFM per 1 square foot of "face onening"...

Basically build your work space and then do the calculations and match your ventilation capacity to match your work space....

Dale


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  #54  
Old 2014-03-14, 5:53am
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I am re-locating my torch set-up and have a question about the venting. In order to vent to the outside in the new location, we would have to cut through the metal sheeting on the outside of the building. The other option is to vent through the ceiling into an attic space. This is a metal building that we have built my shop and my husband's wood shop into. The attic space is just for minor storage and it is not air tight. Anyone else vent into an attic space? Pros and cons? I am using a range hood for my ventilation system and I will only work on the torch for 1-2 hours at a time per day.
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  #55  
Old 2014-03-14, 8:12am
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Venting into attic space only is a bad idea.... It will eventually contaminate the whole attic space with the heavy metals and other toxic's that are results of heating the glass in flame..... Over time you are creating a built up of the very things you are trying to avoid, the reason you created your ventilation to begin with...

Dale
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  #56  
Old 2014-04-10, 10:33am
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If you want to check air flow you need to use something like this:

http://testproducts.com/second-smoke...ack-p-242.html

Incense is not a good method, though it's cheap and seen around quite a bit. Your nose attenuates to the smell very quickly and you don't notice it. The smoke isn't very concentrated and dissipates quickly. Do the job right and use a professional product that is a standard in the HVAC industry as well as with Safety and Risk Management teams who evaluate chemical and biological safety hoods.

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  #57  
Old 2015-03-23, 4:28pm
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Default Funnel needs to be somewhat wide.

From looking at the comments, I would say that "Beadbug's" picture shows and ideal setup. I would definitely say that a galvanized bucket would not be wide enough, but then that would depend on the size and shape of the bucket. You want a good strong exhaust fan as part of your system... preferably with more than one speed.
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  #58  
Old 2016-05-28, 1:43pm
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Glamgalglass, you rock! My only exposure to 'flow' is in Physical Chemistry and Reynolds numbers re: heart assist devices! I am recently retired and my left brain has discovered the right brain art world (loving it)! I love melting colored glass! I am trying to figure out a ventilation system thru a window, and yours is a perfect model. I know this is several years after your thread, but it just shows how immortal your discussions are to others! thanks ever so much! Smiles ~ Leigh
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  #59  
Old 2016-07-11, 2:52pm
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I also move my torch up and down as I make beads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RuskinDesigns View Post
I have a question about the funnel. I move the position of my torch up or down depending on the application. Wouldn't you need a large opening to accomodate the torch range?

Am I the only one who changes torch positions? I am seriously looking into better ventilation myself.
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  #60  
Old 2016-07-11, 3:06pm
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Also, if I took the fan out of my arrowsprings vent hood would it be strong enough to use with a funnel system?
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