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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions. |
2010-12-06, 7:14pm
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Type ZZZ personality
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Join Date: Aug 15, 2005
Location: Chicago western 'burbs
Posts: 5,528
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Propane vs Nat Gas
Is there a difference in how boro reacts to these two gasses?
I work with propane, but sometimes work at others' studios with piped in
natural gas. I can't seem to get the good color with the natural gas.
It seems to me that there is a difference in the flame between the two gasses,
but I can't seem to quantify it. Has anyone else had this experience or am I just nuts?
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Lynx with 2 5-lpm oxycons
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2010-12-07, 7:03am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 05, 2005
Location: Northern Colorado foothills
Posts: 883
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I am anxiously waiting responses. I've always worked with NG and don't seem to be able to get great colors out of boro. Hopefully, it's not just me.
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Patti G.
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Scorpion with 2 Regalia's on NG
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2010-12-07, 8:26am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 21, 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2,807
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I use natural gas, but with a booster. I don't *think* I have trouble with the colors. Maybe I do and I just don't know it
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Lynda
Cheetah, 5 lpm and 7lpm conc/generator (8-9 psi), natural gas (booster), started 11/06
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." -- Bertrand Russell
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2010-12-07, 11:29am
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put a bird on it
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Join Date: May 18, 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 649
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I used NG with my Minor, then switched to propane when I got my Lynx. Other than the greater amount of heat I am able to generate with the Lynx, I haven't noticed a lot difference. Have been happy with the colors on both.
Maybe it is a matter of where in the flame to work with each type of gas?
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elise
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2010-12-08, 8:47am
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Member
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Join Date: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 60
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Propane comes out at a higher pressure than natural gas (that's why you have to convert the jets on a gas stove when you switch to propane) so if you don't use a regulator you would get a different oxy/gas ratio.
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Pam
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2010-12-08, 2:49pm
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Alaska Boro
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Join Date: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 1,065
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Like the results of NG in place of propane with a Scorpion. When working with NS white the glass has less of a tendency to boil. Seems there is more control IMO. The flame is harder to see (diddy + welder's shade 3) as it burns very clean. The plus part is that the number of needed concentrators dropped from three to two saving on power costs.
For propane a regulator is a must to covert the 80 - 125 psi to a working pressure of say 5 psi for a GTT torch. For NG the standard pressure is 11 WC or .4 psi. The pressure delivered to the NG regulator supplied by the gas company, in my case, is 60 psi line pressure. Some companies will allow for a pressure greater than 11 WC in residential settings. Others will not.
There are NG compressors for torches to boost NG from 11 WC to 25 psi with different cf/hr capacities. Costs start out at $1,100 plus shipping. Power requirements are 120V at 15 amps.
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2016-07-15, 7:10am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Sep 14, 2009
Posts: 25
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More Information Please!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska
The pressure delivered to the NG regulator supplied by the gas company, in my case, is 60 psi line pressure.
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I'm in the process of getting hooked up for natural gas and I spoke with my plumber about putting it in my studio. I showed him my studio and where I want it plumbed. He said for me to ask around because even tho I know it's possible, he had never dealt with such a task.
How can I help my plumber find what ever regulator I will need and how to install it.
Also, I need to separate my gas and oxy lines once that's done.....I'm afraid to cut the brass clamp. Can you reassure me?
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2016-08-07, 3:47pm
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Alaska Boro
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Join Date: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 1,065
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NG Gas
In most cities and communities the maximum pressure available depends on the codes for that area. Some will allow as much as 2 psi while others will have a limit that is under 1/2 psi.
Many torches like to see 5 psi, while others can operate with lower pressures (Cricket/Scorpion). Other torches require higher fuel pressures for best performance.
Overall, your installer is limited to local plumbing codes and what is allowed by the firm that supplies the natural gas.
Expect pressures in the range of 1/3 psi to perhaps 2 psi at the most. Pressures over this can be achieved by using a natural gas compressor.
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2016-08-26, 6:51am
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funny mofo
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Join Date: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gracedorsey
I'm in the process of getting hooked up for natural gas and I spoke with my plumber about putting it in my studio. I showed him my studio and where I want it plumbed. He said for me to ask around because even tho I know it's possible, he had never dealt with such a task.
How can I help my plumber find what ever regulator I will need and how to install it.
Also, I need to separate my gas and oxy lines once that's done.....I'm afraid to cut the brass clamp. Can you reassure me?
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I have a Scorpion with natural gas. The Scorpion is made so that you can use it with natural gas. The NG has a low pressure, as Alaska says. One thing I discovered was that when I tried to use a flashback arrestor I ended up not getting any gas at all, because the pressure of the gas is too low to get through the flashback arrestor. My HVAC guy, who took an interest in my setting up my studio, plumbed the NG line through to my studio, which is something he is licensed to do. I don't think you need a regulator for the NG.
I use one oxycon, but I want to get another.
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Donna's law of glass: If you're the first one to smell something burning, you're probably the one on fire.
Washington, DC: Taxation Without Representation, 200+ Years and Counting.
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2021-07-16, 4:31am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jul 16, 2021
Posts: 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska
Like the results of NG in place of propane with a Scorpion. When working with NS white the glass has less of a tendency to boil. Seems there is more control IMO. The flame is harder to see (diddy + welder's shade 3) as it burns very clean. The plus part is that the number of needed concentrators dropped from three to two saving on power costs.
For propane a regulator is a must to covert the 80 - 125 psi to a working pressure of say 5 psi for a GTT torch. For NG the standard pressure is 11 WC or .4 psi. The pressure delivered to the NG regulator supplied by the gas company, in my case, is 60 psi line pressure. Some companies will allow for a pressure greater than 11 WC in residential settings. Others will not.
There are NG compressors for torches to boost NG from 11 WC to 25 psi with different cf/hr capacities. Costs start out at $1,100 plus shipping. Power requirements are 120V at 15 amps.
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Great. Thanks for Sharing!!!
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2022-01-13, 3:50am
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Member
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Join Date: Jan 12, 2022
Location: country Victoria, Australia
Posts: 33
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It is many years since I use NG & air to work soft glass, but I think the temp of a neutral flame is hotter than a propane & air neutral flame (now I only use propane & need to add a little oxygen to the air to work soft glass!!!).
Also, when burning NG (contains methane & ethane) more "molecules" of NC (about twice) compared to propane, to give a similar size neutral flame (same amount of oxygen for both tests). To complicate this, propane is at a higher working pressure.
But all this can be ignored because most glass working torches have needle valves to adjust gas & oxygen/air to give flame size & temperature.
Either gas can be user to work both soft glass & boro. I do not know if colours can react differently.
Peter
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