Has This Concept Gone Too Far?

[FlameDancer]

This has bothered me a bit. I have seen where a Tutorial that was posted free, was then deleted and is now for sale.

I personally think this is pitiful! This, to me, says it's ALL about the money

[moondanse]

"I have seen where a Tutorial that was posted free, was then deleted and is now for sale."

Would someone let me know (by PM) which tutorial this is?

[ROC]

I'm wondering how the artists' choice to sell their knowlege has effected forum members willingness to ask, "how'd you do that?" I suspect you won't get a true read on how people really feel because people have gotten a little gun shy around here. Over 600 views and just over 30 replies makes me think that.

Sara, could you add a poll to this? If people can remain anonymous you might get a truer picture of the general consensus.

[Ever After]

Originally Posted by Carmen Isaacs

I also love the tutorials and Sarah I almost had a heart attack when I read that are not keen to write anymore, a woman my age can't take this kind of shock.

lol that was cute!

[midniteburner]

Originally Posted by ROC

Over 600 views and just over 30 replies makes me think that.

And my PM box is overflowing. LOL!!!!

Originally Posted by ROC

Sara, could you add a poll to this? If people can remain anonymous you might get a truer picture of the general consensus.

It seems there are many reasons people have thought the concept has gone too far. There are 2 main responses (from the PM's I have received) to this:

1) A beadmaker openly shares a technique either in the Gallery or a free tutorial and then creates an e-book later to sell with the same information. There are several who have done this.

2) A beadmaker notices that someone (like Laurie aka Ever After) has beads that sell for a decent price and has the tutorials that are selling well. The beadmaker says "hmmm..." and makes a tutorial on every damn bead they make.

I am not going to even get started on those who don't seem to care about ethics and recreating a tutorial for a bead that has been previously published! This is about the concept of tutorials for purchase.

Sara

[piedradesigns]

It's very difficult for me to attend classes for a number of reasons. I see the tutorials for sale as a very economical way to gain some techniques I might not otherwise have been able to access. I've also "met" some extraordinary folks who make these tutes. If the writers are able to earn $10-$20 per tutorial, good for them!

I also sometimes ask the artists who post in the Gallery how they create certain effects. Most have been incredibly generous, but I respect the viewpoint of those who choose not to share.

If you disapprove of tutorials for sale, don't buy them, especially if you think the information is available for free somewhere else. Frankly, I see this debate as a non-issue.

Peace!

[midniteburner]

Gretchen:

I too am in the same boat when it comes to classes, so I know exactly the position you are in.

I hope you have enjoyed the tutorials you have purchased and learned many new skills from them.

Sara

[Ever After]

I guess I dont find the they had a free tut, but pulled it and made a for pay book so bad..
I dont know which it is, so I dont know the price etc..

I do wish I could give it all away for free, even the beads, that would be fun!
But this is my career.


I think its going ot be confusing , I mean sure Ive seen a billion people jump on the wagon since it first started, I was just quick! lol

I dont think we can or should say who should make a tut, its still the purchasers decision to buy it. do they want to learn how so and so made a certain bead?

There are lots of encased floral tuts out there, and Kim made one, Im still very interested in her approach, ya know?
I also think she put so much time into this tut, that its going to contain alot more info on said bead than you get for free. and her AHA moments..

so all in all I think it will be a learning curve, its alot of work to make a tut, where I could be behind the torch making beads to sell. So if I thought for one minute the tut wouldnt sell, Id much rather be torching! and I think people will start catching on to that..

but again its going to be what the buyer of the tut wants to learn, and who they want to learn it from, so I dont think we can say, hey you cant make a tut..
but we can choose to buy said tuts.

I hope that makes sense I havnt had my caffiene intake yet.

[sarah_hornik]

Originally Posted by moondanse

"I have seen where a Tutorial that was posted free, was then deleted and is now for sale."

Would someone let me know (by PM) which tutorial this is?

Me too, if you don't mind. Just curious.

[jana]

I know of one of the tutorials that done this and I specifically emailed this artist and encouraged her to do this.

The e-book has pictures and step by step instructions versus just the general "this is how I did it" that was posted in the gallery.

Those general directions are still posted in the original gallery thread for those who want to see them and can follow them, but the e-book is a better option for me, a person who is very visual.

I would NEVER begrudge someone being paid for their time. The artist took the time to photograph every step of the bead and deserves to be paid for that time.

If you don't want to buy them, then don't, but don't criticize the artists who took the time and the talent to put together these fabulous teaching tools.

Originally Posted by midniteburner

1) A beadmaker openly shares a technique either in the Gallery or a free tutorial and then creates an e-book later to sell with the same information. There are several who have done this.

[pinkcb]

Frankly I'm amazed anyone writes a tutorial at all.

There are so many minefields with them: you didn't orginate the style/design/technique, you don't know the history of lampworking, you're copying, it's too expensive, you should give it away for free, people should/shouldn't be able to copy, tell me what I'm allowed to/not to do, the files are too big, it takes up too much printer ink, the pictures are crap.

I think tutorial writers open themselves up to huge amounts of criticism, whether warranted or not. Write them or don't. Buy them or not.

I am assuming that there are thousands of people like me, that read these threads and not post. This is probably not a surprise to anyone but all the internal sniping, bitching, and cattiness does not accurately reflect the genuine kindness and helpfulness of the majority of LE'ers. And before anyone feels directly targetted by this, you aren't. This is my generalization of feelings I get from these posts. I respect that everyone has the right to express their opinion but it is disheartening to debates deteriorate into us/them. Thankfully this thread has not gone down that road.

[moondanse]

Originally Posted by jana

I know of one of the tutorials that done this and I specifically emailed this artist and encouraged her to do this.

The e-book has pictures and step by step instructions versus just the general "this is how I did it" that was posted in the gallery.

Those general directions are still posted in the original gallery thread for those who want to see them and can follow them, but the e-book is a better option for me, a person who is very visual.

I would NEVER begrudge someone being paid for their time. The artist took the time to photograph every step of the bead and deserves to be paid for that time.

If you don't want to buy them, then don't, but don't criticize the artists who took the time and the talent to put together these fabulous teaching tools.

I agree.

[DianaDesigns]

Originally Posted by ROC

I'm wondering how the artists' choice to sell their knowlege has effected forum members willingness to ask, "how'd you do that?" I suspect you won't get a true read on how people really feel because people have gotten a little gun shy around here. Over 600 views and just over 30 replies makes me think that.

Sara, could you add a poll to this? If people can remain anonymous you might get a truer picture of the general consensus.

I will tell you straight up.

I don't ask, period.

Number 1 reason I have heard most is, the artist my not give a hoot, and may actually tell you, but there are many others that feel they are the beaders guard dog, and those people will make you feel and seem like some kind of scum or idiot for asking.

You will get responses like, why can't you just figure it out on your own, its not that difficult, take a class, read a book, what makes you think they want to share, I think its rude that you asked....shall I go on..

[Ever After]

well, I will ask what color.. thats about it,
but anything I have asked, they have been more than gracious,
I have been ignored before, but I will say this is how it was before the pdfs, anyways, no change there.

[jessicajane]

I think the tutorials are a great way for us to support each other, especially when other sales are low.
I hope everyone keeps writing them, because I love to buy them, I am compiling my own personal book. I love that they are step by step and have lots of pics, it makes it easier to follow them at the torch. I hope someday to be able to write some myself.

[DianaDesigns]

Originally Posted by Ever After

well, I will ask what color.. thats about it,
but anything I have asked, they have been more than gracious,
I have been ignored before, but I will say this is how it was before the pdfs, anyways, no change there.

Yep color I will ask, and what glass.

I still get ignored....

[Ever After]

Originally Posted by DianaDesigns

Yep color I will ask, and what glass.

I still get ignored....

yes, but thats been like that forever, not a result of pdfs, is what I meant to convey..
still intaking the caffieneeeeeee, lol
( I require alot)

[DianaDesigns]

Agreed.

I think the fear of asking has gone up though. Maybe not because of the pdf's, I think its more to do with the climate and maybe the person who wants to ask thinks, ooo what if they are working on a Tut and I ask......hmmm maybe I should wait, or pm them.

[Ever After]

maybe so, But it shouldnt be like that,
I mean if someone asked what color I used for a Pansy Id gladly tell them,
any excuse to talk glass, lol

if someone perhaps is making a tut, and is asked a more specific how did ya do that question, then it would be in thier best interest to reply , Hey Im making a tut on that! and I will give you a heads up as soon as I am done ?
and thats cool, no?

and if you asked a question and they referred you to a book or another thread or a tut, that should be taken as a great help, at least to me it is.. I love to read, and study,and to find cool resources I didnt know was there..

[midniteburner]

Diana:

You are not alone in being afraid to ask. And it's sad but also it is a fact of life.

It seems like in the past some beadmakers would share others woundn't and got rather snippy when being bothered by those who did ask.

I too wonder if beadmakers will start to have the mentality of "oh...several people have asked about these beads so let me run to my computer and make a e-book...why share when I can sell".

From the buyers perspective, it seems that most don't care that the information is already out there. It is being handed to them for a price. They seemed to be pulled into a marketing ploy of glossy photos and thinking the e-book is going to make up for whatever skills they lack.

Sara

[Ever After]

Sara,
selling is sharing?
teaching is sharing?
If I think a bead would make an interesting class,and people would be interested in taking the class, why not?

by the way its not as easy as running to the computer to make an e-book, as that sounds, lol

[Smurfy5]

Originally Posted by sarah_hornik

These days, I am exploring other formats - such as a blog where tips and info are shared regularly, and readers have the option of contributing a few bucks now and then if they like (I'd love to hear your input on this idea).

Funny thing, as I have been working on and deciding if and when to put out my portrait bead tutorial that people have been asking for... I considered doing something like this where anyone could download it but I would leave it up to them as to whether they felt like donating money to pay for the time I put into it. I am not sure if this would work... or how well, but I thought then I would avoid a lot of stress and debate.
-Kirsten

[DianaDesigns]

I wil say though, that I have seen at least 5 people, get ripped a new one for asking, and that was even before the orginator of the bead/technique asked about even saw the post or knew about the question.

They then came in and were quite nice an diplomatic about it and they were very saddened by the attacks being made.

Again says a lot about how things can get out of control sometimes.

Pointing someone in a direction is fine and dandy actually, but its how that is done or conveyed.

This answer is great.

Great question Diana. There is a tutorial posted here...............it is free for your use. If you have any questions feel free to contact me.

This answer chaps my ass.

Well, Diana, if you bothered to look around a bit you would see there is a free tut out there by the owner of this particular bead. I would suggest you ask them first before making the bead and please but your own spin on it.

WTF....

[DianaDesigns]

Originally Posted by kimberly

Diana, you forgot the third group of artists - those that DO "give a hoot" and share some of their techniques, colors used, glass used, tools used, kiln settings, flame settings, etc all for free becasue they CARE. .

No flaming from me.

I actually did mean they don't give a hoot about answering the question and will do so willingly.

Hmm maybe I am not explaining this right..

What I meant was they don't see the question as an invasion and will willingly answer, as opposed to those that feel the question was inappropriate even though they are not the ones with the answer.

Does that make sense?

[sarah_hornik]

Originally Posted by midniteburner

From the buyers perspective, it seems that most don't care that the information is already out there. It is being handed to them for a price. They seemed to be pulled into a marketing ploy of glossy photos and thinking the e-book is going to make up for whatever skills they lack.

This seems like a bit of an unfair generalization about tutorials and their buyers.

[Ever After]

well yeah Diana the seocnd answer would tug on my short n curies too..
but again, this is not because of pdfs, its been like this forever,

[Sherry]

Originally Posted by kimberly

Diana, you forgot the third group of artists - those that DO "give a hoot" and share some of their techniques, colors used, glass used, tools used, kiln settings, flame settings, etc all for free becasue they CARE. They want to see people work safely, they want to see people create and have fun. Go to one of the threads on silver glass if you want to see an example, or go to any of the free tutorials on this site (and there are a ton!), or go to one of the websites and blogs where tips, tricks, colors and other information is still FREE (try the one I contribute to - link is in my signature). Yep - I have written a couple of tutorials and charged for them, but I still answer questions (if I know the answer) and I still support the community. Want more tutorials? - subscribe to The Flow. Check out any issue. Tons of how to, step by step, EXCELLENT tutorials from some first rate artists. BTW. Those artists don't get paid for contributing. Why do they do it??? BECAUSE THEY CARE.

I hope I am correct in saying that I have answered any question PM'd to me, unless it went to the second page and I forgot. I don't have many secrets, and I am a compulsive truth teller. But please remember, WE ALL have lives and sometimes people don't even see a PM for a couple of days. I do not have time to read each and every thread on LE and I am sure I am not alone. If you have a question = PM the person. If they don't get back to you in a few days (yes - DAYS) try again.

Now - I am out of this thread, out of all of the other threads, and frankly am tired of the entire topic and tired of the drama, drama, drama. It sucks energy. I need to make beads, need to find the "community" again. I know it is out there and it is composed of some wonderful, fun, caring people.

Feel free to flame me for my opinion. I won't be here to read it. I'll be making some beads.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

[DianaDesigns]

Well. peeps. You can see a perfect example of how a persons words can get twisted by reading some of the above.

I feel I have to explain myself to death here. I am guessing many are not seeing and hearing what I am, so I will leave it at that.

[midniteburner]

Kimberly: no one is being flamed for ANY opinion in this thread. Yes, you are one of the most giving and respected in the glass community!

Sarah: I am sorry. The remark I made is just my assumption from the responses I have received. I respect you for the tutorials that you have made. You are selling information from your own personal experience in working with glass and colors.

I do hope that the buyers realize that tutorials will only supply them with information. It takes a lot of time and hard work to perfect any technique. Some techniques will come to them faster and easier than others. But it still requires work

Sara

[Ever After]

I think I was following you, but for sure the word game gets played along alot, lol