Lampwork Etc.
 
TrueDesign

LE Live Chat

Enter Live Chat

No users in chat


Jelveh Designs - Glass Beads Torched One-by-One

Beads of Courage


 

Go Back   Lampwork Etc. > Library > Boro Room

Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2009-07-18, 7:09pm
framerak's Avatar
framerak framerak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 07, 2006
Location: Scappoose, OR
Posts: 1,445
Default Losing Color in Implosions

I'm a boro newbie and I've tried to find the answer to my question on LE and elsewhere with no luck. I'm sure it's something so obvious that I'll be smacking my head and saying, "Well, of course!"

I'm doing implosions using frit, DAP or Triple Passion and I'm losing all the color. I get just a washed out tan color. At first I thought it was simply that the frit wasn't able to give me the depth of color that a rod would so I starting really layering the frit. I get it smokin' hot, cool below glow, then burn of the haze and then start imploding. Am I over-striking (is that possible with the AP colors?).

I'm on a bobcat with propane and an M-15 so it takes awhile to do implosions. I'm wondering if I'm just holding it at a temperature that kills the color while I do the implosion.

Any suggestions or thoughts would be appreciated! Oh, I have another 15lpm oxy-con coming on Monday so maybe that will help...?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Angela Kane

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-One of a kind boro frit blends!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2009-07-18, 7:27pm
LyndaJ's Avatar
LyndaJ LyndaJ is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 21, 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2,807
Default

Sounds like it's not staying hot enough while you're imploding to keep the color. a second oxycon should certainly help!
__________________
Lynda
Cheetah, 5 lpm and 7lpm conc/generator (8-9 psi), natural gas (booster), started 11/06
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." -- Bertrand Russell
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2009-07-18, 8:24pm
IF-Designs's Avatar
IF-Designs IF-Designs is offline
In search of her path....
 
Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: North Seattle, WA (use to be Fort Wayne IN)
Posts: 7,285
Default

Yea your just not getting the glass hot enough down to the core after the implosion. Its really really hard to do on a small torch though not impossible but I was NEVER able to get consistant results on smaller torches. When I had my Cheetah and liquid o2 yea you could rock out the color. Its all about the heat.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Prints for sale in my
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2009-07-19, 8:25am
vega's Avatar
vega vega is offline
Star Traveling Super Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 20, 2008
Location: Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 87
Default

actually there is a lot more too it than just the heat. try this.
1) dont overheat the rod before picking up your frit, overheating will lead to problems. I could get into the rad details of this but I'll hold off for now. I usually hit with a larger flame, then back it off to inner flame right before i dip.
2) hold the rod way up in the upper flame were its mostly oxy, pointing the frit "almost" straight back into the flame. If you point it directly down into the flame it can boil the frit or fuse hase back into the clear, you want it to "wipe" the haze off so the frit becomes instantly clear.
3) immediatly angle yourself for an implosion, but only implode it 1/3 of the way so its a rim with a dimple in the middle.
4) hit the center briefly to bring the center dimple out. don't take too long with this, as at this point the outter rim is cooling.
5) dip into a backing frit and melt in at the same distance/angle/heat you did the implosion.
6) repeat #5 one or two more times depending on preference. you MUST retain heat through the whole process, any more than a 3-4 second delay will change your outcome. beyond 8 seconds and all you can hope for is a severely halo'd implosion.
7) flatten the back with a paddle while spinning. 2mm is usually enough, you don't want to flatten the piece. I could get into this more but not now. just retain as much of the maria as possible.
IMMEDIATLY cool your piece. if its 1"x1/2" (dia/depth) or larger you need to blow on it directly on the backside... like... almost passing out. the consistancy and penetration of this cooldown is actually the most important of the seriously important steps. once the glow is gown, look down through the edge of the topside of the maria. You should see ice blue and yellowish splotches. This is actually the base of the implosion that has hazed the tiniest bit as it tried to ion-swap with the backing frit and failed becuase of lack of germanium (alaskan thunder is a great backer). THE IMPLOSION SHOULD BE ALMOST COMPLETELY INVISIBLE.
9) Now carefully flamecut off your rod on an angle so the flame is pushing the heat up and away from the cab. remove the chunk left on the cab in the same fashion, don't ever point your heat directly down into the implosion. Your implosion should just now start to be striking to purply/browish/redish.
10) from underneath(backside) your flame finish off your front maria. You have about 10 seconds max to do this or you heat up the implosion too much and it will overstrike to icy halos.
11) IMMEDIATLY cool it down by blowing on it. Blow on the edge while spinning. Alternate to the top. your heat is traveling from the top to the bottom. you want it to hit the center and stop/cooldown.
12) if you made a good punty to your maria then you can just lightly heat up the puntymark and then blow on it to prevent the heat transfer... this one is realllllly important. If you have to heat it up too much to melt off the punty mark you could botch the whole thing. after its able to cool down for about 15 seconds or so you can add a loop or whatever.

I hope this helps.
I am actually in the process of writing a book that will include this whole thing in brain melting scrutiny. down to the chemical process of ion exchange and temperature balancing/bouncing.

vega-
__________________
I've Got Blistas On Mah Fingas!!!
Carlisle CC on compressed o2 with a tranny pedal
(Otherwise known as a Scream'n he-she)

Im on
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
now!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2009-07-19, 10:23am
framerak's Avatar
framerak framerak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 07, 2006
Location: Scappoose, OR
Posts: 1,445
Default

Thank you all for the info and Vega, thanks for your detail. I think part of the problem is that my Bobcat and one oxy-con aren't very conducive to successful implosions. It takes too long to heat the maria and is hard to keep the heat consistent so parts of it are held in kind of a "mild" heat zone and it muddies the color. Does that make sense? I'm hoping another oxy-com will help.
Thanks again!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Angela Kane

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-One of a kind boro frit blends!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2009-07-19, 12:25pm
vega's Avatar
vega vega is offline
Star Traveling Super Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 20, 2008
Location: Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 87
Default

its not the bobcat. its the throughput and/or the angle at which you are imploding.
angle the gather so its facing toward you, down slightly and cocked to just a little angle to the whole flame (the back of the flame) is hitting the whole face, once it starts to pull down, pull it slightly out so your imploding just what has frit, unless your doing a marble, then you have the rock the whole edge and back. I wasted a lot of oxy when i first started implosions. I can do it now in about 6-7 seconds. I will have some detailed vids for cheap soon. with pics, annotations and downloadable spec sheets too.
good luck.
__________________
I've Got Blistas On Mah Fingas!!!
Carlisle CC on compressed o2 with a tranny pedal
(Otherwise known as a Scream'n he-she)

Im on
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
now!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2009-07-19, 11:20pm
hagstromartglass's Avatar
hagstromartglass hagstromartglass is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 569
Default

all right dont hate on me...

but I have a dvds right now on my website that will show you how to do this if you want to cut to the chase....I would recommend the turtle dvd...unless you want to learn tubing...then I would say get the gold fume flower DVD.

You can check out my website for full descriptions on these.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Get Your New Hagstrom Art Glass Videos on my website and Etsy now!!!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2009-07-20, 6:53am
framerak's Avatar
framerak framerak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 07, 2006
Location: Scappoose, OR
Posts: 1,445
Default

Thanks again Vega! Stephan, I think I may need that tut!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Angela Kane

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-One of a kind boro frit blends!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2009-07-25, 9:57am
heartglass's Avatar
heartglass heartglass is offline
Bead Maniac
 
Join Date: Jul 17, 2005
Location: Beautiful Oregon Coast
Posts: 203
Default

my implosions are too squished and flat and my color has faded ..sometimes I get a fluke and it turns out great ...I'd like to be consistant ....Angela your ball of confusion inplosion on etsy is fabulous ...what colors did you use ...mine go blah...

Vega ...Stephan ...help! I am looking at your videos ...thanks for the tips and any more you can give ....Susan
__________________
"Life is supposed to be fun "
My Etsy
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My blog.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2009-07-25, 2:29pm
framerak's Avatar
framerak framerak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 07, 2006
Location: Scappoose, OR
Posts: 1,445
Default

I made a twisty with Amber Purple over white and some stripes of other colors but I don't remember what they were. Haven't been able to re-create it. I need to make notes or something so I can duplicate the stuff that works! I know it had a little bit of Loch Ness too. Sorry I'm not more help.
I ordered Stephan's video and hoping it will help me maintain the good colors.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Angela Kane

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-One of a kind boro frit blends!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2009-07-27, 8:16am
Bunyip's Avatar
Bunyip Bunyip is offline
Pyromaniac
 
Join Date: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Out there on the interwebs
Posts: 1,784
Default

Interesting.
__________________
Chris Scala

Fortune Cookie say, "When things go wrong, don't go with them!"

Current Glass-Melting Apparatus:
GTT Lynx powered by 2 5 LPM Oxycons and
a sexy Barracuda running pure tanked Oxy
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2009-07-28, 5:09am
Mr. Smiley's Avatar
Mr. Smiley Mr. Smiley is offline
boro color bender
 
Join Date: Jun 06, 2005
Location: The Oregon coast!
Posts: 10,039
Default

I work it hotter than the devil's jock strap crossing the finish line and my colors turn out alright.

I've found the simple way to get purples every time is to work the silver AP family hotter than you think you should... get it to batch state and never let it cool below glow, until you're ready to strike it. My frit pendants strike as I'm removing the rod and shaping the lens.

I'd kinda like to understand what Vega is talking about... might be a new range of colors for me to explore...

This is just Amber Purple small frit worked super hot and backed with Onyx fine frit...

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2009-07-28, 5:11am
Mr. Smiley's Avatar
Mr. Smiley Mr. Smiley is offline
boro color bender
 
Join Date: Jun 06, 2005
Location: The Oregon coast!
Posts: 10,039
Default

It's one of the demo pieces from my Boro DVD... (sorry Stephan, couldn't let you have the only plug!)
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2009-07-28, 6:01am
framerak's Avatar
framerak framerak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 07, 2006
Location: Scappoose, OR
Posts: 1,445
Default

Thanks Brent! I have your DVD (got it when I took your class at Aquila in Portland) and I've ordered Stephan's too. I'm obviously doing something wrong because I can't get color out of my frit implosions. I get color when I'm just making a bead with the AP rods but not in implosions. Frustrating!

BTW, I'm becoming a twisty-makin' machine! Remember my totally wonky twisties in class? A thing of the past now. Thanks again for not laughing too much in class!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Angela Kane

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-One of a kind boro frit blends!

Last edited by framerak; 2009-07-28 at 6:02am. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 1:21am.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Your IP: 44.200.65.174