Boro Torch Setup Questions

Very Glassy · #1 2014-02-08, 12:45pm

Hey guys,

So I'm looking to upgrade my entire lampwork setup. I currently have a Mini Cc tabletop torch, a 5 LPM OxyCon that puts out roughly 7 PSI, and a large outdoor propane tank with more pressure than I'll even need. I'm looking to upgrade to a medium-large boro setup, with a concentration in pipes from small spoons to water-pipes.

I'm trying to decide between a Bethlehem Champion, or like a GTT Delta. However I am not sure what I will need for an oxygen concentrator, for I live in a residential area where i cannot get tanked oxygen delivered.

What are your thoughts?

Talonst · #2 2014-02-08, 2:05pm

You're going to need one of these http://www.mountainglass.com/HV30-Hi...or-System.html

And several, probably 3 at least, larger concentrators - about $8K all total to run torches of that size on concentrated O2. Figure on a small room to keep all that gear humidity and temp controlled too.

CC, Mirage, or Champions are just within your budget alone. A delta is $2300

Very Glassy · #3 2014-02-08, 2:33pm

Thank you for that advice - if I could get suggestions on what kind of torch and concentrator setup I would need for small spoons to water pipes that would be great. I am just looking for a starting point and I don't want to get something too big that I won't use.

Talonst · #4 2014-02-08, 3:05pm

Since O2 is going to be your bottleneck, perhaps it's best to think about what you're willing to spend for your concentrator setup first and then see which torches can run on that setup.

Perhaps Kim will drop in and offer some specific advice to you.

Until then here's a torch gas consumption rate thread she started a while back http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=93946

All of the torches you're thinking about are 40+ CHF (18 LPM min.)

istandalone24/7 · #5 2014-02-09, 5:52am

or get any torch you want, and a homefill setup. with a homefill, you are using bottled gas. so any torch your heart desires can be ran.

imo, a homefill system and a gtt phantom (or mirage if you can find one/afford one) is the best bet.

this way you won't spend $10,000 (yes ten thousand) on an oxy system.

Very Glassy · #6 2014-02-09, 8:13am

Thank you for the advice - I didn't know about a homefill system - that is awesome!

untamedrose · #7 2014-02-10, 11:07pm

I dont do spoons and blowing, BUT I do plenty of larger work with a half ass broke m15 and full on m20 with a Bravo. If I can manage inch thick 3 inches wide roses.....pretty sure you dont need the above system to do simple spoons the walls arnt that thick. just trying to compare glass to be heated to get the job done. Though it does look like a really cool system, on the some day maybe list.

istandalone24/7 · #8 2014-02-11, 5:17am

perhaps it's not "required", but having the ability to fill your own tanks will allow you to run ANY torch in the future.
having a homefill means never having to say "my oxycons won't power a torch that big".

it's a good feeling

Talonst · #9 2014-02-11, 9:25am

I agree a Bravo can run on a less sophisticated system.

The OP was interested in the Champion and Delta torches, both of which would need something more than a couple of M15's to run anything but the center fire.

To me if you can barely achieve a neutral flame, or don't have enough O2 overhead with your generation system to be able to run highly oxidizing flames or have the outer fire on as long as needed then it's not really a solution.

While a homefill is a more affordable route, it's a tinkerer's solution. Not much in the way of support for those systems as they are intended for something else. Since they are made to fill small tanks using them to fill K's is very abusive.

The reality is though that you can do serviceable hollow work on a minor or any other torch really. You won't be making any tube pulls though.

Something that rarely get's mention is the National 3A/3B - can run that on a few cons and it melt's boro just fine.

Cosmo · #10 2014-02-12, 7:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Very Glassy

Thank you for that advice - if I could get suggestions on what kind of torch and concentrator setup I would need for small spoons to water pipes that would be great. I am just looking for a starting point and I don't want to get something too big that I won't use.

If that's what you are wanting to make, a Minor or anything that size would work fine. I have made literally thousands on a Minor.

Very Glassy · #11 2014-02-13, 7:59am

Thank you for all the great advice!

Swirleigh · #12 2015-09-22, 2:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmo

If that's what you are wanting to make, a Minor or anything that size would work fine. I have made literally thousands on a Minor.

A minor will work on Boro? I have a BobCat, for making beads, but I want to try Boro and make marbles, and more.

SteveR · #13 2015-09-22, 8:56pm

Yes-- up to about 1 inch in diameter. And small pendants. Slower than a Major torch-- but you can do it. Unless you anneal at 1050 degrees--- on ramping schedule-- about 1/3 will crack right a way however.

Arcanaeum · #14 2015-09-23, 7:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swirleigh

A minor will work on Boro? I have a BobCat, for making beads, but I want to try Boro and make marbles, and more.

Currently using a Bobcat with one 5lpm oxygen concentrator. I have made boro marbles just under an inch - with another 5lpm 1 marbles are attainable with pendants up to a couple of inches. I say just go for it! You'll be surprised what can be achieved with low oxygen supply and small torches.

Oxygen is often the bottleneck, it seems... While I'd dearly love a 10lpm oxycon the price here in the UK is around £1000 (~$1.5k) so it works out cheaper to buy 5lpm oxycons which are only £250 (~$380). Once I've got another 5lpm oxycon I will be saving up for a Scorpion, and then maybe another oxycon, haha!

Good luck.

Tobias · #15 2015-09-25, 6:16pm

Lynx will make almost anything most people will want. Get yourself two 8-10lpm oxycons. Finished and cheap. Look on Craigslist for the concentrators, I buy them whenever I can for $200-300 from non glass people. Don't pay somebody $800 plus because they know you want it for glass work. If you outgrow the Lynx, add a third or fourth concentrator and a Phantom.

Hook them up to a simple "Y" or "T" splitter and then one hose to a Lynx. It's low pressure it's easy, anyone can do it.

snoopdog6502 · #16 2015-09-26, 11:10am

Here is my GTT Phantom on 3 oxygen concentrators. I have $2,300 into torch,foot pedal and oxygen concentrators alone.

Its a sweet set up. I have a homefil too with 3 tanks so I never buy oxygen
The Phantom is a very capable torch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziF_M1dFSJY