Implosions Mush?

[Hels]

I am able to make beautiful, perfectly round marbles... but the implosions inside look like mush.

What I do is, I add the dots, then I heat the rim and not the dots, and rotate the maria at a 45 degree angle. I have watched all the videos and read all the tutorials for implosions I can find... and I think I'm doing the same thing. But all my 'implosions' come out mushy and flat.

I have tried to NOT mash the maria, heat only on the back of the maria so it droops down instead, heated the 'rim' but of course, fire splashes the dots anyway. The dots don't push into the clear... they sort of melt. I am not pushing the maria too hard.

Here's the problem:






Just mush, or the colors become 'wispy' and disappear...

I even tried implosion dots on a mandrel:


Top left... I did get dots in there... but they don't look very implosiony...

I am using a Bobcat on tanks. I have oxy set to 45 psi, and propane at 20 psi (if this matters). I can get stuff pretty hot. I am using a neutral flame, not too big, not to pointy.

Can anyone give me any clue to what I'm doing wrong? Thanks!!

[Itzallmyne]

Are you melting in the dots after you place them? Thats my first question, cuz they should be imploding if they are melted, and second when you go to flatten the maria, I just set it down and barely push at all. Mine usually implode pretty good.

Also your oxy/propane pressures sound kinda high, I 'm on a phantom and the recommended pressures are 10 propane and 35 oxy, you are using boro? yes?

Marilyn

[Christopher Rice]

Sounds like you are pushing too hard. It's a very subtle touch, if you push too hard it mashes everything together. And definately too high with the propane pressure. I run mine at 3-4lbs. and my oxy at 50. Hope this helps!
-chris

[Tink]

How thick is the maria when you start out and put the dots on it? If the maria's not thick enough to begin with, the implosions have no place to go, if that makes sense.

[Shadymilkman23]

When you marver the maria, You're not using the graphite to push the color. You use the graphite to cool off the colored glass so the clear can melt better around the color.

[Hels]

Thanks for all the replies!

Yes, I only do boro... I don't own any soft glass yet.

The first 2, I did use the marver to push in the dots. With the later ones, I didn't even push, I tried to get the clear to melt around the dots.

I think my entire problem is dot melting...
I have done very tiny dots, and once melted, they spread into a solid sheet together... so I thought what I was doing wrong was melting them, and then tried not to melt at all and letting the maria ooze around them in subsequent ones.

With the dots... what is considered 'melted in'? When I think melted in, I think in a flat pool up against the clear. Is that not what is meant?

Thanks!

[Cosmo]

You are getting it too hot and pushing too hard. When you marver it, it takes no pressure. Only the weight of the rod itself.

Don't worry about the dots melting. They are supposed to do that.

[Shadymilkman23]

Try to think of it as using the marver only to cool the colored glass, not actually pushing it.

[miaou]

sorry for my english...the point is that you should start first with doing a very flat maria, that is very important as it will help you understanding how the dots comes in evenly inside the maria. Then apply some dots, first do simple dots of one color, don't try to make it complicate, you have to understand the process. Warm evenly the border of your maria, dots will melt in (that means that at this point they are not inside your maria but just melted over the surface) hold your rod verticaly to help the maria to drop with the gravity, when you see that the maria begins to round itself, flatten it but as cosmo says don't push to hard...you shall do the process to warm and flatten your maria again.
hope this will help you out
Sarah

[Hels]

Thank you so much. I think I found a different way to do implosions... I will test it as soon as I can. I also will try to revisit the implosion technique as well.

Miaou, that's very good advice... start out with a few dots and not so many at once (I don't do my dots very evenly either).

Thanks for the advice Cosmo and Jeff.

I started a new thread under Gallery about what I tried... which seemed to work pretty well. I POKED the stringers into the maria. It literally took a few minutes to make a marble that looked just like an implosion. This one:


I think it turned out pretty well for a 'random' pattern. I will try making a few more soon as I get my ordered oxygen machine.

[meadowesky]

I think your problem is that you aren't melting your dots in. When you apply your dots you do want to melt them into the maria FLAT before you start imploding. You don't want to push the semi raised dots into the glass. They will all seem to come together as they are melted in but try that.

[gmkcpa]

I start with a 3/4" rod of clear boro. I heat it until it becomes a ball, and then I flatten it on the marver. When you do this, try to keep the 3/4" rod in the center of the maria. Then heat the 3/4" rod behind the maria a bit. Then flatten it down on the marver a bit. You have just increased the diameter of your maria and the thickness of the maria. Now do this again. OK - Now you've got a good maria to work with. Get rid of the chill marks.(When you make the glass behind the maria thicker by heating the 3/4" rod and pressing the maria down vertically a few times, you will find that later on it is much easier to keep the maria on-center when heating the rim and keeping it rotating.) Now put your dots on the maria. Now start heating the maria. I hold the maria in the flame at a 30-45 degree angle - the dots get blasted with the heat and melt in. A few seconds after the dots get REAL hot, place the maria vertically down on the marver. DO Not PUSH. If you have 15" or so of 3/4" rod attached to the maria, just let the weight of the rod do the pushing. Do this 4-5 times-heat the face of the maria at an angle and then put the maria down on the marver. Now, after the 2nd or 3rd time, I start changing the angle at which I am holding the maria in the flame. I keep changing the angle until the maria is perpendicular to the face of the torch, and I'm heating the rim of the maria. At this point or real soon after I let the maria start flowing down. (Here is where you really appreciate the fact that you made the area between the maria and the 3/4"rod real thick-it helps keep the maria on center.) How low you let it flow down before you either pull down the center of the flower or cool and fill in the center of the 'dimple' with clear or any color you want is up to you. When I do a flower I pull the center down and then fill in around the cone and round off the marble. When I do a "matrix' with silver fume I don't pull down the center-I just fill in the dimple with clear and then build up the back of the marble with cobalt and decorate it. Now you attach a punty to the bottom and burn off the 3/4" rod. Round it out and you're all set. I tried to give you a blow by blow, but I gotta stop now to watch American Idol. Hope this helps.

[Hels]

Thanks Cosmo, Ben, Sarah, Brandie, and gmkcpa (I'm in Florida too).

I just tried again tonite... and more mush... here's the irony... I 'backed' the cone with frit... and when I flipped it over... it looked like a peony. LOL!

Sooo... I backed the FACE with frit, and kept the frit side that had imploded itself. Don't ask me how that happened. I'll take a pix of it when it comes out of the kiln, hopefully it won't change.