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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2006-12-14, 4:14pm
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Default Newbie needs help - plz

I need help! I only have a certain amount of glass to practice with and they are all cracking when I cool them or take them off the mandrel.Plus these mapp bottle are getting expensive after the beads crack.
I have read every book I could on LW and almost every post on this forum.
I have made some awsome designs and feel good about what I did and then they crack after cooling or when I go to take them off the mandrel, some have even cracked a few days later after making it off the mandel thinking I had sucessfully made a bead.
I do not have a kiln yet. So I am cooling in the fiber blankets.
I am using a hothead. Just saved enoungh $$ to get a torch- but will have to wait on the rest of the set up ( propane and o2 plus the gauges and hoses.)
I have hinted to Santa that the kiln could come early if he was gonna get me one.
Any way can you remelt your fubars! I mean I havn't annealed all the pieces yet, or do you recommends making frit out of it - my coffe grindder would get great satisfaction out of that.
Boy it this discouraging- I did what I thought was an awesome goddess - she lived for 2 weeks- I went to look at ther today and she fell apart into 4 pieces.
Maybe I am suppose to be learning how to use superglue and decopage covering.
all info welcome plz-my fat bottom hurts from sitting at this tourch failing!
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  #2  
Old 2006-12-14, 4:37pm
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You may not be keeping the bead warm enough before you put it in the fiber blanket. When your done with the bead evenly heat it and wait just until the glow dissapears and then put it in the blanket. Try some vermiculite it's what I used before I got my kiln and it worked beatuifully for up to about 2 ounce beads. If you want, PM me your address and I'll send you out some shorts.
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  #3  
Old 2006-12-14, 5:01pm
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Try making smaller beads at first -spacers- some of my first beads split because I was trying to wob on alot of glass. Look up flame annealing- I wont do a good job 'splining it!
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  #4  
Old 2006-12-14, 5:39pm
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There are a couple of problems with remelting the fubars. One is getting out the bead release. It's practically impossible to get it all out, so you'd have nasty little cruddy bits of remaining release in your glass. That would be true whether you turned your beads into more rods or into frit.

The other problem is that you probably used more than one color in each bead. Up to a point that makes for an interesting color mix, but if you have any quantity of beads, and I'm betting you do, you're past the point where it's going to become an icky mess. The more black you used, the faster you're going to reach that point.

I agree that your cracking problem may be happening before you're putting the beads away in the blankets. You have to keep an even heat base in the beads. Keep them warm! They don't have to be drippy hot or glowing at all times but they do need to be warm. You say you've read all the books on lampworking -- do you have Jim Kervin's booklet about Jim Smircich? He talks about the importance of maintaining a heat base in the beads. In Smircich's class, he says that when you've been working on one end of a long bead, there should still be enough "insurance heat" in the other end of the bead that when you put it back in the flame, it should start glowing again pretty much immediately. If you're doing sculptural beads (like your goddess), particularly if you have any parts that stick out, when you're not actively working on the bead (like when you're thinking, or hunting around on your table for a rod or a tool), you need to be flicking that bead in and out of the flame CONSTANTLY to keep it warm enough that the bits don't crack off but cool enough that they don't melt in. (If you ever take a class with Sharon Peters, in between cracking jokes she will constantly be ranting at you to be flicking in and out faster and faster, and if we were actually in a Sharon Peters class there would be dirty jokes to be made there, but I'll spare you.)

Before putting your bead away, you need to even out the heat base. You need to bring the bead to a nice consistent glow throughout. If your bead is big, you may have to warm it, then hold it out of the flame for a bit to let heat penetrate to the center while the surface cools a little so that the surface doesn't get drippy before the center gets warm, then give it a little more heat, then hold it out of the flame a little, then warm, and so forth. Obviously this is really hard to do on a bead with raised surface decoration, so what you need to do then is to make sure your bead has good core heat before you add the surface decoration, try to get the surface decoration on without taking too much time, then try to re-warm the bead in between the surface decorations.
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  #5  
Old 2006-12-14, 6:14pm
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When I first started making larger beads I would be making them and hear a tink and would look but all looked fine so went ahead with things. Every one of those beads fell apart later because of cracks that I couldn't see at the time and didn't heal before putting them in the kiln. I am wondering if this might be happening to you. I know the hot head torch is loud, so you might not hear the tink when it happens. I would try using heated vermiculite. You can get a cheap crock pot at a thrift store and turn it on high. When you get a kiln you can batch anneal everything that lives. If you can't find any vermiculite PM me I could send you some. I bought a huge bag when I first started so I think I have 10 pounds of it. I still use it if I want to see what certain colors look like after they cool. That way I only have to wait 20 min or so to see and dont' have to make a whole set of something I don't know how it will turn out.
Just keep at it I am sure you will figure things out.
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  #6  
Old 2006-12-14, 7:42pm
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Well said Emily! Thank you!
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  #7  
Old 2006-12-15, 2:07am
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Yes, I have occassional heard the TINK! So Tink is a early crack- than you I now know! And I believe I can find some vermiculite at wallyworld. I already have a crock pot. I can't wait to give that a try. You Guys rock with information!
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  #8  
Old 2006-12-15, 2:11am
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First off piss off the mapp gas bottles. i have never bothered to use them and I never will . they are a waste of money and create land fill.
Go and buy yourself a small re-fillable gas cylinder. Mine is about 8 pounds and only costs about $4 to re-fill.
Then while you are at the outdoors shop buying and filling your new gas cylinder buy a bag of vermiculite for about $5. Then go and get an old crockpot and fill it with the vermiculite, turn it on high and let it warm up for about half an hour before you start torching.

Once you have made about 50-100 beads send them off to someone to be annealed or you will find slowly over the months they will start breaking even if you do nothing wrong to them and they are just sitting in a container.

HTH
Leanne
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  #9  
Old 2006-12-15, 2:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily View Post
There are a couple of problems with remelting the fubars. One is getting out the bead release. It's practically impossible to get it all out, so you'd have nasty little cruddy bits of remaining release in your glass. That would be true whether you turned your beads into more rods or into frit.

The other problem is that you probably used more than one color in each bead. Up to a point that makes for an interesting color mix, but if you have any quantity of beads, and I'm betting you do, you're past the point where it's going to become an icky mess. The more black you used, the faster you're going to reach that point.

I agree that your cracking problem may be happening before you're putting the beads away in the blankets. You have to keep an even heat base in the beads. Keep them warm! They don't have to be drippy hot or glowing at all times but they do need to be warm. You say you've read all the books on lampworking -- do you have Jim Kervin's booklet about Jim Smircich? He talks about the importance of maintaining a heat base in the beads. In Smircich's class, he says that when you've been working on one end of a long bead, there should still be enough "insurance heat" in the other end of the bead that when you put it back in the flame, it should start glowing again pretty much immediately. If you're doing sculptural beads (like your goddess), particularly if you have any parts that stick out, when you're not actively working on the bead (like when you're thinking, or hunting around on your table for a rod or a tool), you need to be flicking that bead in and out of the flame CONSTANTLY to keep it warm enough that the bits don't crack off but cool enough that they don't melt in. (If you ever take a class with Sharon Peters, in between cracking jokes she will constantly be ranting at you to be flicking in and out faster and faster, and if we were actually in a Sharon Peters class there would be dirty jokes to be made there, but I'll spare you.)

Before putting your bead away, you need to even out the heat base. You need to bring the bead to a nice consistent glow throughout. If your bead is big, you may have to warm it, then hold it out of the flame for a bit to let heat penetrate to the center while the surface cools a little so that the surface doesn't get drippy before the center gets warm, then give it a little more heat, then hold it out of the flame a little, then warm, and so forth. Obviously this is really hard to do on a bead with raised surface decoration, so what you need to do then is to make sure your bead has good core heat before you add the surface decoration, try to get the surface decoration on without taking too much time, then try to re-warm the bead in between the surface decorations.
Wow thanks- I have read every book I COULD, but not the one you asked about- I have probable all the general ones that most everyone get as a newbie plus what the library had acailable to read, plus old journels.
So I now have a lot of new plant shards for the bottom of new plants - or will the release kill the Plants-lol?
And you are correct keeping the bead at the point you talk about will be my new goal ? Flick in and out all the time.
I haven't taken anyclasses as I just started LW a couple months ago- just to see if i would like it as it was something I had always wanted to do since I was a Kid.
I like it- Poop!
So even core heat-flick , flick and them I am trying the vermiculite- and we shall see what happens.
Thanks all so much
I know you guys are all so good at this!
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  #10  
Old 2006-12-15, 2:28am
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Will do I didn;t know you could get a large container refilled with Mapp gas?
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Old 2006-12-15, 2:57am
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Most of us in Australia are probably using propane gas or bbq gas. If you think MAPP bottles are expensive in the US you should see the price of them here...

You can quite happily use bulk propane on a hot head.

You don't have to heat your vermiculite either.
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  #12  
Old 2006-12-15, 2:59am
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No no no you don't get it filled with Mapp gas. You don't use Mapp gas you use PROPANE or LPG (forget which one it is)like what your normal everyday BBQ runs on.
To tell you the truth I really dont' know why people bother using mapp gas. It is SOOOO much cheaper just to use a a bbq bottle.
You sent me a pm but it wouldn't let me pm back to you??? Check you settings.

Go down to your local hardware store and buy yourself a BBQ bottle... get a small one maybe the second smallest or the smallest one they sell. If you are not using an extension hose you will want to mount the hothead straight on top so make sure it has a connection where you can screw the hothead on to the top. Here in Australia only the smaller ones do this (the bigger ones have the connection pointing to the side which is useless for what you would want( Then go to the area they fill it up and get them to fill it for you.

Take the hot head with you and show it to them as you may have to buy asmall connection for about $5 so you can screw it into the bbq bottle. You will find that about 90% of people who have been using a hothead for a long time do not use mapp gas but use bbq bottle s instead..

Do you have a local glass suplly place? they might be able to help you with this???

Last edited by Leanne; 2006-12-15 at 3:01am.
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  #13  
Old 2006-12-15, 3:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wendbill View Post
Most of us in Australia are probably using propane gas or bbq gas. If you think MAPP bottles are expensive in the US you should see the price of them here...

You can quite happily use bulk propane on a hot head.

You don't have to heat your vermiculite either.

Yes you will find that you don't HAVE to heat your vermiculite but I found I had lots more loss without heating it. When you heat it you will be ablet o make much much larger beads without breakage.
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  #14  
Old 2006-12-15, 9:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireflyartglass View Post
Yes you will find that you don't HAVE to heat your vermiculite but I found I had lots more loss without heating it. When you heat it you will be ablet o make much much larger beads without breakage.
I used to use a crock pot that I got at the Salvation Army Store for around $5 to heat the vermiculite. I kept it on high until I was finished for the day and then turned it off to cool. I batch annealed for quite a while, with minimal breakage.
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Old 2006-12-15, 10:00am
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You can hook up to a regular BBQ sized tank using BBQ hoses--just take your torch with you to the hardware store to get the hoses to make sure you get the right size. Smaller hardware stores tend to be more helpful than big-box stores...
Get a brand-new tank & keep it, get it re-filled yourself, rather than doing the "swap-exchange" if you can, that way you're not getting someone's tank that's been in their backyard getting full of rust & garbage, etc. You're less likely to get scum & **** on/in your beads that way!
~luna
happily using propane with the hothead in the driveway whenever it's not snowing
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Old 2006-12-15, 10:18am
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My best advice to you is to check with your local welding supply shop and see what kind of "brazing fuel" they carry. Tell them you want MAPP, but also that you know that there are alternatives to MAPP, such as propylene, Chemtaine, others. What ever you do, don't get acetylene!!

When you go in there be very direct, because the guys that run these shops have a tendency to view us women that come in there as dumb. When you appear like you know what you're talking about, you will get further and they will view you as a potential long-term customer.

If they ask about a regulator for your torch, tell them that it is designed to run at tank pressure. You can be safe with either a 30lb or 60lb tank. Some places will fill a BBQ tank for you, others have tanks that you set up an account, pay a deposit, and swap them out when you need to. You can get a hose (it's a single black rubber hose with brass fittings) with the proper fittings from Arrow Springs, I think. They come in two lengths, 5ft and 12ft, I believe.

This type of fuel is a little more expensive than propane, but not that much, and it's more than worth it. Propane can be so dirty depending on what area you live in, and you will be so disappointed. So I would go with trying to get a MAPP type of fuel first, and as a last resort, use propane. When you find the shop and talk to them, PM me and let me know what's up. I would like to help you out the best I can.

I used bulk fuel (propylene) in a 30lb tank for 18 months and I loved it. I would still be using my HH, but there is an ongoing problem with supplier.
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Last edited by Lisi; 2006-12-15 at 10:20am.
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  #17  
Old 2006-12-17, 11:25pm
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I never knew or heard or saw it stating that you could use propane on the hot head insead of mapp gass. Why don;t they tell you this when you buy it- why doesn't the mapp torch head say it on the info or box or the ad selling it, especially on ebay- oh why- why - why?
WE HAVE SOLVED ALOT OF PROBLEMS LEARNING THAT- LIKE DAHHH!
I feel so dumb- man the money I am gonna save, recoup some I have wasted on teeny tiny Mapp bottles! Thank you all for this great widsom.
Ran outside and got the bbq tank and it worked- yeehaw!
All of you women Rock are awesome , are totally rad, groovie- get the idea-exqusite!
I have also worked very hard at the flicking of the bead and the 2 sec rule type thing of keeping it hot enough to be glowing with in like 2 seconds and the beads i have made are not cracking - now if I knew how long to wait to not get fuzzies before puttting it into the balnket and vermiculite?
I reheat when done to glow - take it out and wait 3-5 seconds and away to cool. But Appearently not long enough as We are getting santa fuzzies. Help again Ladies Please _ I thank all of you for your fantastic wisdom.
I will post pic of successful beads as soon as I get one.
Thanks again
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