Problem- Lynx -high propane, low oxy-Why?

merigypsy · #1 2008-03-30, 10:35am

Hi
I am so frustrated. Just bought a New Lynx and a new Oxy M-10(which I now see only gives 5psi ). I also use second concentrator, a refurb oxy -5, 5 psi. I use a Propane tank.
Problem- Propane blasts nicely. Getting not enough Oxy. One oxycon reads 5, other reads 2-3. Won't go up to 5. Flame is fluctuating propane up and down.
(husband says propane is fluctuating becasue it is windy outside?!)
Can't get more than 1/8-3/8 of good blue cones for oxy flame!!!
Just paid $500 for this second oxycon which I thought I was getting 10 psi, not 5.
I got this set up so I could do Boro-there is no way right now I could melt boro- I couldn't even finish a tiny bead with soft glass today.
Could it be my Torch? oxy set up? regulators? propane? ..?
I hope I don't need to go to tanked oxy and have wasted all that $$ for the oxyconcentrators.
Any help will be SO appreciated. Sorry if this is in similar threads.
Thanks
Merilee

squid · #2 2008-03-30, 11:05am

I think the 10 stands for liter per minute, not psi. That is typical of oxycons because medically it is the LPMs that are important, not the PSI.

aimee · #3 2008-03-30, 11:13am

Right now I have my lynx running off of tank propane and one old concentrator that barely puts out 4psi. Plus when I bought it 5 years ago it was only putting out 92% oxygen. (I bought it used from a medical supply place for $50.)

I've made huge beads using soft glass (some over 2" long, some the size of golf balls). I just recently started using my boro after taking a glass with Mr. Smiley. I've made tons of pendents since then, most of them are about an inch or so (not including the loop). The pendants take me about 30 minutes or so to make.

My cones come about to maybe 3/8-1/2" for a nice oxy flame.

When I do first fire up the torch, I do have to play with the knobs a little to adjust the flame. It's not just a one time turn them on and I'm done.

I did just recently order a new M-15 but that was mainly because my current concentrator shuts down on me at least once per day.

Paul Ewing · #4 2008-03-30, 11:16am

Unlimited Oxygen is a bit different, they list their units by PSI mostly. The M-10 is supposed to produce 5 LPM at 10 PSI. That should be enought by itself to do soft glass and small boro on the Lynx. For good boro you would really want two M-10s I would think or maybe the M-15 would be fair. It doesn't have quite the LPMs needed for the top end, but the pressure is a help.

I think the problem you are having is that the M-10 is overpowering the other concentrator. This happens if one puts out more pressure than the other. Many medical units only put out 6-7 PSI. The weaker unit will not be effective and I have heard can be damaged from prolonged use when it can't put our the oxygen that is being produced. Try with just the M-10 and see how things run.

squid · #5 2008-03-30, 11:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Ewing

Unlimited Oxygen is a bit different, they list their units by PSI mostly. The M-10 is supposed to produce 5 LPM at 10 PSI. That should be enought by itself to do soft glass and small boro on the Lynx. For good boro you would really want two M-10s I would think or maybe the M-15 would be fair. It doesn't have quite the LPMs needed for the top end, but the pressure is a help.

I think the problem you are having is that the M-10 is overpowering the other concentrator. This happens if one puts out more pressure than the other. Many medical units only put out 6-7 PSI. The weaker unit will not be effective and I have heard can be damaged from prolonged use when it can't put our the oxygen that is being produced. Try with just the M-10 and see how things run.

Thanks for the clarification - I googled M-10 and everything I found showed it at 10 lpm, but that was for a Millenium M-10, so apparently that is not the unit she has?

merigypsy · #6 2008-03-30, 11:30am

Paul, I did try shutting off the ulim oxy and just tried the M10. Still not enough.
?

Dale M. · #7 2008-03-30, 11:31am

Typically oxycons run at a set pressure. Usually between 7-9 psi and controlled by a internal regulator you are not supposed to adjust (that is why it is inside unit.) "Modified" medical units may have some what more pressure. What you can adjust is volume or LPM (liters per minute) this is what the "flow gauge" on face of unit controls and indicates.

If you are having propane fluctuations it usually a regulator issue. Being windy outside has nothing to do with propane pressure. Unless it is consistent to when oxycon switches from one sieve bed to the other (strictly INTERNAL uinction of oxycon)

If you are using a adjustable regulator for propane it should be set at abuit 1/3 to 1/2 the pressure of what you oxygen supply is at... so if you ARE getting 10 psi from oxycons , your fuel (propane) pressure should be about 3-5 psi.

If you have one oxycon that is running a full 5 LPM and one that will only produce 3-4 then one with lesser flow is just a bit weaker (pressure wise) but it may be still operating to its full efficiency. What you may want to do is also turn down stronger concentrator so it is running at 4 to 4.5 lpm and see if weaker unit improves it flow. Also running units at a flow rate lower than "maximum" will increase oxygen purity.

Also its a general practice to open oxygen control nob on torch full open and adjust flame height(candles) with you fuel.... Although with a Lynx you do need to supply at least some oxygen through secondary nob.

Dale

merigypsy · #8 2008-03-30, 11:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid

I think the 10 stands for liter per minute, not psi. That is typical of oxycons because medically it is the LPMs that are important, not the PSI.

Yeah- I was confused, but still not sure how to relsove this problem...

Paul Ewing · #9 2008-03-30, 11:33am

Maybe a problem with the M-10 then. I have run my Lynx on one older 5 LPM medical unit before and it did "ok" on smaller boro.

merigypsy · #10 2008-03-30, 11:34am

[quote=aimee;1763033]Right now I have my lynx running off of tank propane and one old concentrator that barely puts out 4psi. Plus when I bought it 5 years ago it was only putting out 92% oxygen. (I bought it used from a medical supply place for $50.)

I've made huge beads using soft glass (some over 2" long, some the size of golf balls). I just recently started using my boro after taking a glass with Mr. Smiley. I've made tons of pendents since then, most of them are about an inch or so (not including the loop). The pendants take me about 30 minutes or so to make.

My cones come about to maybe 3/8-1/2" for a nice oxy flame.

When I do first fire up the torch, I do have to play with the knobs a little to adjust the flame. It's not just a one time turn them on and I'm done.

Hunh...I should be able to make big things, too.
( I do tweak and fine tune all the knobs etc. ,too so that is not it..)
Thanks..

merigypsy · #11 2008-03-30, 11:41am

Dale, thanks-
My Propane is set 3-5, so that is good.
I'll try to lower the M10 down a bit.

Is the secondary knob the one on top, right? I did try adjusting/ opening that as well. this know controls the flame whether it is thinner or bushier, correct?

I didn't know about the running of the units lower for purer oxy.-thanks

My Husband thinks regulator is fine but willask him to double check.

merigypsy · #12 2008-03-30, 11:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Ewing

Maybe a problem with the M-10 then. I have run my Lynx on one older 5 LPM medical unit before and it did "ok" on smaller boro.

Thanks Paul. I just got it. i have hardly used it. I can check into this, too.

merigypsy · #13 2008-03-30, 11:47am

Oh I just talked to my husband he said to ask if my having the flashback arrestor on the oxy line would have anything to do with the flow of oxy?

Aimee do you have one?

Dale M. · #14 2008-03-30, 1:39pm

As long as you are getting a oxygen flow, I would say no problem....

Most flashback arrestors have spring operated check valve in them, If you do not have enough pressure to keep valve open yes it may be a problem....

You can try system with out F.B. arrestor and see if it helps. In most cases with a surface mix torch you don't even need one.... BUT if it makes you feel safer and does not effect torch performance then keep it in system.

Dale

Tobias · #15 2008-03-30, 3:39pm

You won't need the FB arrestor with the oxycon...do however keep it on the propane side...this will probably help a bit. The lynx needs about 10-11lmp and 12-15psi o2 to run at full power with 3-5psi propane from everything I can gather...of course this is just what i've gathered from reading tons and tons of posts. Try calling GTT, Willy and Wally, they could tell you how to cure this 100% without a doubt. Find out if you can exchange the m10 for the m15 if possible or you wont be happy even with two m10's.

merigypsy · #16 2008-03-30, 4:43pm

Dale and Tobias thanks. I will try to remove the flashback arrestor and see.
Then maybe try upgrading- (exchanging? if they will let me) to a M-15.

thanks everyone else this all helped a lot. 'preciate it.

murf · #17 2008-03-30, 9:53pm

" M-10 is overpowering the other concentrator"
I think what Paul says is correct. try turning your M10 flow rate down forcing the other concentrators out put up. you would like if possible for the two to have the same out put.
as far as the torch goes, 6-9 inch propane flame to start, green knob on till the oxygen hisses, back off till no hiss, crack open you blue knob. that should get you in the ball park and adjust to your needs.

aimee · #18 2008-03-31, 8:13am

No, I don't have one of those flash back things.

merigypsy · #19 2008-03-31, 12:51pm

Okay I think we may have this thing settled or much better. My DH took out the flashback arrestor, just on the oxy,and said the oxy is really blasting much better and that both concetrators are at maximum. I just got home so I am going to see what it up.
Dale and Tobias I think you got it.
Murf, Paul, Dale- I will try to lower them both just a tad. Or the dominant one if it happens again
Aimee and Squid thanks..
will post the results for other with future similar problem.

Tanner Studios · #20 2008-03-31, 4:01pm

The problem may also stem from using two different concentrators. If the concentrators are not producing the same PSI the stronger one will push back into the meeker one. Acting like a plug or worst diverting Oxy from the torch.
Scott

merigypsy · #21 2008-04-01, 7:25am

Yeah, Scott I wondered about that after I bought it. But for right now things are okay. whew. thanks tho. i 'll keep an eye on that fact.

Tobias · #22 2008-04-01, 9:43am

I have a lynx and I just got an m15 yesterday...and one m15 is nowhere near enough to run it like a tank. I'm for sure going to try to find one more m15 next month.

Miss Kate · #23 2008-04-01, 9:54am

A Regalia from Kimberly at Pyronamix runs a lynx 95% like tanked oxy.

Miss Kate

merigypsy · #24 2008-04-01, 1:40pm

Tobias and Miss Kate. Those are good things to know. I'll keep that in mind.
Uggghh....I just can't spend more $$$ right now.

motherbeads · #25 2008-04-05, 10:14pm

I have a Lynx, too. I tried a Hurricane and when it didn't work, it was replaced with two M-15s. They sit unused in my garage because I simply could not get them to work with my torch. I've tried every possible adjustment, but I keep experiencing the same problem you describe. (Extra long and irregular candles, cool flame, constant cycling to a totally unuseable flame, extreme noise at the torch, etc.)

Every now and then, I run out of tanked oxygen and spend a day trying to get the concentrators to work, but it never works out. I've decided that the only way I can use the concentrators is to get a new torch.

Renée

oxydoc · #26 2008-04-06, 2:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by motherbeads

I have a Lynx, too. I tried a Hurricane and when it didn't work, it was replaced with two M-15s. They sit unused in my garage because I simply could not get them to work with my torch. I've tried every possible adjustment, but I keep experiencing the same problem you describe. (Extra long and irregular candles, cool flame, constant cycling to a totally unuseable flame, extreme noise at the torch, etc.)

Every now and then, I run out of tanked oxygen and spend a day trying to get the concentrators to work, but it never works out. I've decided that the only way I can use the concentrators is to get a new torch.

Renée

Hey Renee', the way I understand it, 2 M15s should run a lynx. Make sure you are setting up the M15s before you attach the torch. The M15s should be set at 8lpm or less. Watch the ball and see if it is moving up and down (fluxuating) If you would like, call me at the shop 866-955-0200. Maybe I can talk you thru some trouble shooting. jack

Magicfire · #27 2008-04-06, 3:31pm

Yeah, that's weird. I used my lynx for years with just one old oxycon and it worked pretty well. I finally got another one a couple of years ago and I can get a nice big flame. I am spoiled now... the 2nd oxycon isn't great, but it still puts out enough to give me a good flame. I did notice that with the 2 oxycons together each one put out less per unit than one alone, but it is still more oxy than I had before. One oxycon putting out 5 lpm is still less than 2 oxycons putting out 3-4 lpm's each.

One dumb thing I did when I first set mine up 6 yrs ago was I didn't have the dial on the oxycon turned up...so I thought it wasn't working right.

For a while after I added the 2nd oxycon I also thought there was something wrong. I just wasn't getting much oxygen...I finally figured out that there was a loose spot where the y-splitter came together, and oxy was leaking out. I just had to make sure all the connections were tight!

So 2 M-15's really should be more than enough!

hope this helps,
Patti

motherbeads · #28 2008-04-06, 3:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by oxydoc

Hey Renee', the way I understand it, 2 M15s should run a lynx. Make sure you are setting up the M15s before you attach the torch. The M15s should be set at 8lpm or less. Watch the ball and see if it is moving up and down (fluxuating) If you would like, call me at the shop 866-955-0200. Maybe I can talk you thru some trouble shooting. jack

Jack, you guys have been so great! I know you've worked hard to make sure this would work for me. I'll give you call tomorrow.

I'm out of oxygen (since last Wednesday) and won't be able to get new tanks until next Friday. I just spent the entire weekend trying to get these to work and have had no success. I've made beads darn near every day for the past ten years...the thought of a torchless week is really upsetting!

Talk to you soon,
Renee

motherbeads · #29 2008-04-06, 3:41pm

Patti, thanks for replying...I appreciate it! I think I've tried everything, checked every fitting, tried every adjustment and configuration. In a way, I'm convinced it's my torch...maybe it is not, for whatever reason, compatible with a concentrator.

But dang, it works fine with tanked oxygen!?!?

Desperately yours,
Renee

motherbeads · #30 2008-04-06, 3:42pm

And naturally, I have this great idea for a bead...a great idea...one of those run-to-torch ideas...

LOL,
Renee