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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2007-03-26, 4:23am
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state-eternal change
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Join Date: Sep 09, 2006
Location: Sunnyvale CA
Posts: 710
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to press or not to press..
That's my question for the day - I am still learning, and for some God forsaken reason, I have it in my mind that I should learn to do shaping by hand first before buying/using all those neato presses. I have an Osibin lentil shaper (I allowed myself that much) and am finding the going really pathetic...I see all those nicely shaped lentils and coins and other stuff and feel really stubborn for wanting to do it by hand...
Am I being silly, or should I just bite the bullet and get a press? Am I expecting too much too soon?
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2007-03-26, 4:42am
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Viking Flame Keeper
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Join Date: Jun 13, 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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I never try to shape lentils etc by hand, I always press them.
But on the other hand I didn't get a press until I had the basics down, nice rounds beads with nice puckers.
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/Kikki
There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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2007-03-26, 4:49am
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More ideas than talent
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I think there's a lot to be said for getting a feel for the balance of glass and learning a bit about the movement of glass before buying a press.
On the other hand, the presses can be a little forgiving in some respects - but you will gain renewed respect for all the decorated beads out there. It's one thing to press a bead, quite another to press a decorated bead (or decorate it afterwards in the most attractive manner possible.
Like anything, the better the base bead, the easier it all is.
I bought an osibin lentil shaper before I bought a press as well.
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Wendy
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2007-03-26, 4:55am
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Senior Member
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Hi Jody!
Welcome to LE! This is a WONDERFUL place to meet nice people and to learn. I've learned sooooo much here. People are so eager to help. Sometimes there's some fussing and I just try to stay away from those threads. Don't need/want the negativity. Keep asking questions, read, read, read, and practice, practice, practice! How quickly you improve is directly related to how much you practice. Before long, you'll be saying, "WOW, I made that?!".
Regarding the presses, I don't really have an opinion, but I know many die-hard lampworkers say you should learn to make the different shapes by hand before using presses. Hope this helps.
Warmly, Marie C
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2007-03-26, 5:00am
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state-eternal change
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Join Date: Sep 09, 2006
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Thanks for the encouragement - I have lurked on LE for about 6 months and love it - I'll keep trying the hand, and maybe for my birthday I'll get myself a press I have 6 months to do better at hand shaping
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2007-03-26, 7:08am
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Ad astra per aspera
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Join Date: Jun 15, 2005
Location: Apache Junction AZ
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I came VERY late to using presses (I'd been making beads for 8 years before I tried my first press). First, I think that pressed shapes have a very definite (and good) place in our beadmaking repertoire. I enjoy making pressed shapes and using them in my jewelery.
Second, I think your instincts are good. There is a definite skill to setting up the glass on the mandrel to get a good pressed bead. If you don't understand and have the basic skill to begin with, you're going to be very frustrated with some of the pressed shapes. IMHO, basic freehand shaping is learning to walk, using presses is jogging, at the very least. When you feel ready, borrow a press or two (I think lentils are the easiest) and give them a try. Have fun!
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Karen Sherwood
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2007-03-26, 10:52am
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sunscreen me baby
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OK, I do think there is a lot to be said for learning to shape first. But, I didn't. I was making ok round beads. More wonky than not. I made a homemade press the first week I torched. A month later I owned a tab press. I have to say I made better tabs than I did round beads. Because I really wanted to. I spent lots of time pressing and repressing until I got them right. As I gained experience I learned how to hand shape the things I wanted to hand shape.
So yes, it probably is better to learn to hand shape first, but I don't think it is a necessity.
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2007-03-27, 1:36am
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one day at a time
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I think this is the perfect press for a press newbie, and it replaces the use of tong mashers. Which I think are a PITA. I have one of these and it's the only pressed shape I make for now, even though I have the Zoozii Kalera trio and a Spree trio. I don't use them right now because I don't have the time or patience, hehe.
http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...m=150104507167
You can basically make any shape of bead you want and press it with this, and you can use any size mandrel. The tab shapes I make are by forming a spherical bead (or a very fat lemon shape) and then pressing that.
One of these days I'll start buying and using the presses that are so popular, but right now I'm really happy with the quality of this tool, and how easy it was for me to learn to use it.
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2007-03-27, 5:23am
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Genus: gwacefulia klumsia
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodywieler
That's my question for the day - I am still learning, and for some God forsaken reason, I have it in my mind that I should learn to do shaping by hand first before buying/using all those neato presses. I have an Osibin lentil shaper (I allowed myself that much) and am finding the going really pathetic...I see all those nicely shaped lentils and coins and other stuff and feel really stubborn for wanting to do it by hand...
Am I being silly, or should I just bite the bullet and get a press? Am I expecting too much too soon?
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Hi Jody. You don't say how much torch time you've had (we are ALL still learning you see, regardless of years in), nor have you said how you are doing in your hand shaping so far. I'm a big fan of certain press shapes, but learned to hand shape first (the presses didn't exist when I started).
I would say you could probably do both simultaneously (well in parallel anyway). My first teacher passed on a great tip that one of her teachers had given her - sit down and make 100 spacers. By the time you finish those you should have the basic donut without wonkiness down pat. I think I did 20 at the start of each torch session for a week. It helped a LOT. Teach yourself to make a bicone and a flattened bicone tab without presses and you will learn a ton about how to set and keep good ends and keep the glass on center. This will help you with future pressed beads because if your glass is not on center when you press, your pressed bead is wonky or improperly filled out in many cases.
Really, you can't go wrong by putting in the time to learn hand shaping; it will only make you a more diverse melter. But if you have a press shape that you long for, I say go for it. Just don't become dependant on it!
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2007-03-27, 12:10pm
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one day at a time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwacie
Hi Jody. You don't say how much torch time you've had (we are ALL still learning you see, regardless of years in), nor have you said how you are doing in your hand shaping so far. I'm a big fan of certain press shapes, but learned to hand shape first (the presses didn't exist when I started).
I would say you could probably do both simultaneously (well in parallel anyway). My first teacher passed on a great tip that one of her teachers had given her - sit down and make 100 spacers. By the time you finish those you should have the basic donut without wonkiness down pat. I think I did 20 at the start of each torch session for a week. It helped a LOT. Teach yourself to make a bicone and a flattened bicone tab without presses and you will learn a ton about how to set and keep good ends and keep the glass on center. This will help you with future pressed beads because if your glass is not on center when you press, your pressed bead is wonky or improperly filled out in many cases.
Really, you can't go wrong by putting in the time to learn hand shaping; it will only make you a more diverse melter. But if you have a press shape that you long for, I say go for it. Just don't become dependant on it!
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This is excellent advice!
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Melody (Marlee Matlin) from Switched at Birth
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2007-03-27, 12:27pm
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Senior Member
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Location: Vancouver Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisi
I think this is the perfect press for a press newbie, and it replaces the use of tong mashers. Which I think are a PITA. I have one of these and it's the only pressed shape I make for now, even though I have the Zoozii Kalera trio and a Spree trio. I don't use them right now because I don't have the time or patience, hehe.
http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...m=150104507167
You can basically make any shape of bead you want and press it with this, and you can use any size mandrel. The tab shapes I make are by forming a spherical bead (or a very fat lemon shape) and then pressing that.
One of these days I'll start buying and using the presses that are so popular, but right now I'm really happy with the quality of this tool, and how easy it was for me to learn to use it.
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I have that press too and I love it. I have alot of others and still I always grab this one.
Beautiful beads Lisi
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Lori
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2007-03-27, 1:37pm
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Contessa Glass
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Join Date: May 04, 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 186
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There is something to be said about first learning how gravity and heat work on glass and how to use them to your advantage in hand-shaping and sculpting basic shapes. On the other hand, pressing allowed me to concentrate on learning various surface decoration techniques without worrying about distorting the shape of my bead.
I don't think it matters what order you learn things in, just that you learn it.
Welcome!
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Deborah Lynn
Through great effort and hard work, a precious dream comes true
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2007-03-27, 3:19pm
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state-eternal change
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Join Date: Sep 09, 2006
Location: Sunnyvale CA
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Wow, thanks everyone for your superb advice! I have probably put in around 40 hours including the class I took last summer. I guess I see so much good stuff and want my work to be that good "yesterday" and it just doesn't happen. I wanted to learn shaping by hand first to get a good feel for the glass and know how it behaves, and I suppose I am getting more of a sense of that now. Perhaps I just had beadlust for all those amazing shapes and I really do like the pressed ones for the surface decoration that I am trying to do (my pokied dots are pretty good, I have to say ) Shouldn't jump the gun that's all - I am watching that one press though, Lisi, it looks harmless enough. I suppose I'm afraid of becoming "press dependent" rather than doing that hand shaping first - perhaps I'll give myself an allowance - 1 pressed bead per 10 handformed
On an upbeat note, I tried Kimberly Affleck's complex twistie and can now do that one in my sleep! I even love applying it on my wonkies
Thanks again for being such a richly-sharing minded group - it makes all the difference!
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2007-03-27, 3:56pm
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one day at a time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bead crazy
I have that press too and I love it. I have alot of others and still I always grab this one.
Beautiful beads Lisi
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Thanks, Lori! Yep, if it wasn't for this press I probably would have ended up with a rather expensive parallel masher, but that's hard on my hand. I broke my right arm 20something years ago, and I still have problems with squeezing because of the damage to the forearm muscles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodywieler
I am watching that one press though, Lisi, it looks harmless enough. I suppose I'm afraid of becoming "press dependent" rather than doing that hand shaping first
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Noooo don't be leery of this press at all!
This really isn't any different (although the technique is functionally easier!) with this press as it is to "hand form" shaped beads (tabs, cubes, etc.) with a parallel masher tool, or using your graphite marver paddle to mash a bead on your work surface or torch-top marver. Those things are considered "hand shaping" the glass.
So, you see, it's really a different kind of tool after all. Not really a press, it's a masher. You get it and you will be so glad you did. BTW - I'm not affiliated with the seller at all...I'm just an incredibly happy customer!
I just got a brass paddle from him, so I can put my (too small anyway) chipped up graphite one away! Plus, it's fabulous for raku!
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You live in a world of money. Money means choices. No money, no choices. Welcome to reality.
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2007-03-27, 9:34pm
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state-eternal change
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Join Date: Sep 09, 2006
Location: Sunnyvale CA
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Heh, if I want to squish a bead (cos it's just gone WRONG!) I can either squish with my tiny mini mashers or I use my graphite paddle on my marvering pad... Resisted the temptation to squish tonight, and went with Gwacie's advice and made well, 15 spacers...some decorated some not. We'll see if anything is worth posting tomorrow.
Seriously thinking about that neat mashing tool. Must wait - I'm an impatient bidder.
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2007-03-30, 3:31pm
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SCIENCE Teacher!
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Squishing, pressing, squashing and just plain smashing can be great fun and cause some unexpected surprises - have at it!!
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2007-03-30, 5:45pm
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Covered in glitter
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I think you will never learn to control the heat until you do the glass without a press. Once you learn to read/control the glass THEN you are ready to try other things but you need to get that horrible glass pulled up to the center football shape and then turn it into a nice bicone. Trust me, you can do it. I am at a point now where I know that no matter how wonky my bead gets if I want to take the time, I can reshape it into what I want. It's a lot of the influence of Jim Smircich. When I am making beads, he's like the BeadYoda in my head and I know I CAN control the heat/glass. Learn that first.
One of the best things that anyone ever told me, too is to make the bead in the center of the mandrel. I actually have trouble making a bead with bad ends now. (Famous last words...now I'll NEVER make a good bead again!)
(BTW, I have 10 or 12 presses)
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2007-03-31, 8:30am
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state-eternal change
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Join Date: Sep 09, 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debkauz
I think you will never learn to control the heat until you do the glass without a press. Once you learn to read/control the glass THEN you are ready to try other things but you need to get that horrible glass pulled up to the center football shape and then turn it into a nice bicone. Trust me, you can do it. I am at a point now where I know that no matter how wonky my bead gets if I want to take the time, I can reshape it into what I want. It's a lot of the influence of Jim Smircich. When I am making beads, he's like the BeadYoda in my head and I know I CAN control the heat/glass. Learn that first.
One of the best things that anyone ever told me, too is to make the bead in the center of the mandrel. I actually have trouble making a bead with bad ends now. (Famous last words...now I'll NEVER make a good bead again!)
(BTW, I have 10 or 12 presses)
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Yes, I think that's my problem - I wind up not taking the time it really needs. I have to be patient.
As I don't have a set of parallel mashers yet, I have bid on that squisher that Lisi suggested - we'll see if I get it
Btw, beautiful beads Lisi!
Cheers!
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2007-04-01, 12:11am
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one day at a time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodywieler
Yes, I think that's my problem - I wind up not taking the time it really needs. I have to be patient.
As I don't have a set of parallel mashers yet, I have bid on that squisher that Lisi suggested - we'll see if I get it
Btw, beautiful beads Lisi!
Cheers!
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Thanks, Jody! I hope you win!
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Melody (Marlee Matlin) from Switched at Birth
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2007-04-01, 5:23am
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state-eternal change
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Woo! I did win it - It's in the mail as I write this! I worked on the torch last night and got some nice lemon shapes going - squished a few between my marver and paddle and they didn't do so bad! A nice disk shape resulted that was only a little off centre. As I say to my students, practice doesn't make perfect, it makes better
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2007-04-01, 10:39am
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birdergirl ~o~
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Thanks Lisi!
That press looks much more my style~ I think I'll sell my button presses and try one of those!
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2007-04-01, 10:46am
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one day at a time
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Here's a flattened bicone shape I made with the masher. I made the bicone using Jim Smirich's technique, and I used the largest washer sizes to get this bead about 11mm thick. It was made on a 3/32" double dipped mandrel.
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2007-04-01, 10:53am
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one day at a time
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Here's some more that I made with this tool:
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2007-04-01, 10:55am
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one day at a time
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Ack..ignore the fingerprint on the turquoise focal in the 2nd pic..
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2007-04-01, 11:12am
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koregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodywieler
That's my question for the day - I am still learning, and for some God forsaken reason, I have it in my mind that I should learn to do shaping by hand first before buying/using all those neato presses. I have an Osibin lentil shaper (I allowed myself that much) and am finding the going really pathetic...I see all those nicely shaped lentils and coins and other stuff and feel really stubborn for wanting to do it by hand...
Am I being silly, or should I just bite the bullet and get a press? Am I expecting too much too soon?
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I think any beginning lampworker should learn the basics of regular beadmaking without presses to begin with.
presses aren't cheating, like many perseive them to be...they actually take a lot of work to perfect the perfect pressed bead/especially with florals or dichro or added elements, because the mass of glass has to be the right amt...to much and its not a good press. to little and its not a good press...not centered and the right width, its not a good press.
I think bbq mashers should be your first press/just my opinion
you can make anybead a pressed bead then...and work on the footprint and shape first
tubes/ovals...rounds...etc...all look great squished with bbq mashers.
when you really get the gist of heat control, and flowing of the glass, then a press might be a great thing.
learn basics first thou, dont skip to the end of the class per say.
you'll regreat not getting the other stuff down.
I was lucky...there were no presses per say when I learned, I didn't even have bbq mashers until the end of my first year or so.
I concentrated on perfect donuts, encased beads, and small focals and shaping them perfect the good old fashioned way, but laying the glass right and gravity.
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2007-05-17, 7:10pm
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state-eternal change
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well, after a month and a half, I have to say that I quite like the pressing going on with my brass squisher! It is perfect for me and I really thank you Lisi for telling me about it! I have a set of squishies on ebay right now even! It's quite nice to have beads that are all the same thickness, and just about the same width/height too (I did say I'm getting better )
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2007-05-19, 1:04am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 04, 2007
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When I started, I kept looking at press beads and going "damn they're cheating!" - I assumed using a press was way easier than learning to make nice round beads. I still secretly sort of wanted one though because I thought it would make turning out gorgeous beads super easy. When I finally got one (after actually getting quite good at doing a nice round shape), I found out that it's surprisingly difficult to get great pressed beads (I first tried some lentils tongs which were impossible, later I got a Zoozii's spree press which I've been having better luck with but it's still not anywhere near as easy as I'd thought).
I guess what I'm saying is, you will probably have to keep practicing the basics even if you do get a press. It won't suddenly give you any extra skills and it definitely won't be a shortcut. Whether or not you get a press soon I bet you'll still be working on your basic bead skills and not using it all the time. I don't use mine all that often yet.
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2007-05-19, 6:07pm
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state-eternal change
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Join Date: Sep 09, 2006
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I agree Amy..I am managing quite well with my brass masher (it doesn't give a funky shape or anything) and am happy practicing adding the proper amount of glass to the mandrel to achieve the shape I want (tab, circle, etc). I like being able to get the initial and all-round thickness with the masher and then shape with gravity and my osibin lentil shaper (another hand tool) for other shapes.
Thanks for the info everyone!
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2007-05-21, 4:58pm
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Nancy
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Join Date: Nov 15, 2005
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 43
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I have a question. It's been mentioned to make the bead in the middle of the mandrel. How do you get the release in the middle or up to that point? I just get the end when I dip my mandrel.
Thanks!
Nancy
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2007-05-23, 8:40pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 29, 2006
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisi
I think this is the perfect press for a press newbie, and it replaces the use of tong mashers. One of these days I'll start buying and using the presses that are so popular, but right now I'm really happy with the quality of this tool, and how easy it was for me to learn to use it.
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I just wanted to say thanks for the suggestion to get this masher. I also bought one. I love it. I'm only just started to use it and get how versitile it is. Plus seeing your bead pictures really helped spark ideas in my head.
Great masher and beads!
Oh, and I do feel like I must learn to make the shapes by hand. As someone said we don't want our beads to look factory made. Presses sort of worry me for that reason. Besides I feel alot of satisfaction when I master a shape by hand.
Angela
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