Do you have 2 concentrators with differant psi that you have put together NEED INFO

[bead crazy]

I was wondering if anyone has 2 concentrators with differant psi put together with a Y connector.

How does it run? I have been told that it may not work well. I have a Invacare platinum and a Devilbiss. I don't want to ruin my Devilbiss by doing this.

If you do this how does it work, do you have it set lower?

Do you have the back flow gauges in the line to protect the concentrators?

Do you find that it works any better especially for working boro?

My Devilbiss works OK but I would like it to work better. I have a betta torch.
Any other info that you can share would be appreciated.

[bead crazy]

No one has any info for me???????

[Carols Glass]

I have two 5 LPMs and one 8 LPMs. When I want to do boro, I hook up the 2 5LPM's together as one and hook that up with a Y connector to the 8LPM concentrator. When I do this the 5LPM's will only go to 4LPMs probably, my guess is because they are hooked up to the 8LPM. When I want to do soft glass, the 2 5LPM's both will go up to 5LPMs. I think I need to go back down to 1 5LPM when doing soft glass so I don't have to almost turn the torch off to keep the flame from melting soft glass too quickly which makes stringer really hard to do. Anyways, I don't know if this helps but I just want to add that at one time I did have one 5LPM joined up with the 8LPM and it did help and my DH said (he doesn't do any flameworking but he thinks common sense tells you) that this combination would still be good compared to just having one hooked up and he doesn't think that it would hurt either concentrator to hook up different LPMs with different psi's etc. He's smarter than I am so I just take his word for it, LOL!
I probably confused you even more, but I hope not. Just wanted to give you some input whether good or bad!

I would like to add that I am using a GTT Lynx torch.

[Carols Glass]

I just read your questions over and want to say I do not have any gauges on the oxygen concentrators.

Also, the 5LPM's are 8.5 psi and the 8LPM concentrator is 15psi.

When you put your hand in front of your torch with one concentrator hooked up and feel the force of the oxygen coming out and then feel it with two concentrators hooked up, you will know the difference.

[Dale M.]

Originally Posted by bead crazy

Do you have the back flow gauges in the line to protect the concentrators?

There is no such thing as a "back flow gauge" in this application... Proper terminology is a "check valve"....

Most concentrators have built in check valves just behind the output connector so adding a check valve external to unit is just needless redundancy.

Dale

[G.L.McBead]

Just ajust the knobs till both are putting out the same LPM.
G.

[Carols Glass]

Originally Posted by G.L.McBead

Just ajust the knobs till both are putting out the same LPM.
G.

In my case, when I have the two 5 LPMs concentrators Wyed together and connected to the 8 LPMs concentrator, the highest my two 5 LPMs will go is up to 4LPMs on each one. They just don't go any higher. The knobs are turned all the way up.

[squid]

LPM and PSI are not the same thing . I believe it is more important that the PSI match than the LPM, but having said that, I have a devilbiss 8 psi and an invacare 5 psi and they work together fine. I haven't had any problems.

[bead crazy]

Thanks Squid that is what I have I was worried about it. Do you do boro well with that set up. My torch is a betta.

[Dale M.]

Originally Posted by squid

LPM and PSI are not the same thing . I believe it is more important that the PSI match than the LPM, but having said that, I have a devilbiss 8 psi and an invacare 5 psi and they work together fine. I haven't had any problems.

I think this is probably the correct thinking....

Dale

[squid]

Originally Posted by bead crazy

Thanks Squid that is what I have I was worried about it. Do you do boro well with that set up. My torch is a betta.

I have a minor and it is not speedy with boro, but I have made 1-1/2 implosion pendants with it .

[bead crazy]

Well I wonder if my betta will be any better. I can do boro OK now I just want it to melt faster so I thought that the other concentrator would be good. I was thinking of getting tank O2 for boro. I wonder it Y these together will help any better.

[Starfield]

Why don't you consider building a holding tank? I put in a holding tank, cost me under $10 (I had an air tank already) It was the best thing I have ever done.

That way you will never have to worry about compatability. And you get a bonus of extra umph for larger or thicker boro tubing.

Karen
Starfield Glass

[bead crazy]

Can you tell me how that works? Does the O2 go in the tank then you get the O2 from the tank? Do you turn on your O2 and let it fun to fill the tank first?

[squid]

it will definitely be faster on two oxycons than on one - way faster - but it is not as good as tanked oxy. Then again, it is cheaper than tanked too .

[Bellagirl]

Hi Lori,

For boro I use my 2 Health Dyne concentrators with a y connector, They are both 5LPM maximum units. I put them ea on about 3.5 and have plenty of heat for boro (bead size) (They work better in tandem when they are not full bore at 5LPM)

I am using a Mini CC though so not sure of your torch requirements. I am sure boro colors may be easier with tanked O2, but I like the safety, affordability, and ease of concentrators.

Don't know about mixing concentrators with different LPM?. I will need that info also....Glad to hear you are lampworking so much!

Good luck

Jolene

[bead crazy]

Both of my concentrators are the same 5 LPM the psi are different. I had just heard that it would ruin my concentrators having them with different psi.

Wish I was lampworking more though.

My torch gets plenty hot and works well with one it is made for low presure but I just wanted it to do better. Putting them on a lower lpm may be my option.

[kbinkster]

Most concentrators have built in check valves just behind the output connector so adding a check valve external to unit is just needless redundancy.

This is not always the case. There is always the possibility that someone could have altered the machine and removed the check internal check valve (if the machine was even equipped with it in the first place), especially if someone altered the machine. Furthermore, at some point, if the pressure builds up too much, the connection to the internal check valve can come loose, requiring one to open the machine and reconnect the valve. Who wants to do that?

An external check valve does not impede flow very much and is just a good thing to have for peace of mind.

Hooking a DeVilbiss to an Invacare would not harm the DeVilbiss. If the pressure is so great that the Invacare could not push its product into the main line, then, that might not be so good for the Invacare.

As mentioned above, the pressure output (psi) is what should be matched, so that you avoid any imbalance that would prevent one machine from getting its oxygen into the main line. You can add LPMs and have no problem, as you are just adding volume.

Keep in mind that the machines will not put out the same LPMs - even if they are the same model. One may put out quite a bit more than the other. This would be the dominant machine (the one with the slightly highr psi output).

Also keep in mind that anytime you put two machines together, you will get a slight decrease in pressure and a slight decrease in flow.

[bead crazy]

I am trying to decide if I should just sell these and get me a M15 or something higher.
Thanks Kimberly for answering the questions. I knew a little about the technical side of it I just wanted to know if anyone did this and it worked well.

Do you think that I should set the machines on a lower LPM so they are running closer to the same? I guess that it will not hurt to put the 2 together and try it out. I just did not want to spend the money for the Y connector if it really is not going to work well.

[kbinkster]

Setting them to a lower LPM won't do anything to bring their psi outputs closer together.

You would have more LPMs with two DeVilbiss machines than with a single M-15. As for psi... The M-15 is supposed to have a higher psi output, but that is only after the machine has been tweaked to do so. The base unit, the Respironics Millenium, was never intended to run with that high a pressure (15 psi). The original manufacturer (Respironics) says that it is supposed to be at about 5.25 psi or thereabouts. A DeVilbis should put out around 8.5 psi - an honest 8.5 psi, as was intended by the manufacturer.

[bead crazy]

So the 8 LPM and 15 PSI is after the M15 has been tweeked?
So if I put 2 devilbiss together am I getting 10 LPM and 16 psi? Is that how it works?
Maybe I would be better off selling my Invacare and buying another devilbiss then.

[kbinkster]

Originally Posted by bead crazy

So the 8 LPM and 15 PSI is after the M15 has been tweeked?

Yes.

Unlimited Oxygen took used Respironics Millenium 10 units and tweaked them to put out the 10 LPM at 20 psi. The original base unit was designed to put out 10 LPM at about 5.25 psi. UO originally called this modified unit the Millenium 10 Custom. It was also briefly called the M-10 and P-10 (not to be confused with the current unit called the M-10 which used to put out 5 LPM at 10 psi, and now puts out 5 LPM at 7 psi). Then, they called it the M-20 (aka P-20). The "20" was in referrence to the pressure output. I have one of these units.

Anyway, there were apparently some problems with running the full 10 LPM at the boosted 20 psi, so UO backed the pressure down to 15 psi (which is still higher than what the manufacturer designed for that machine) and has people run it at no higher than 8 LPM. The unit was then called the 1508 (I believe). Now, it is called the M-15 (and that's the name printed on the machine).

So, there's a short history of the evolution if that machine, FWIW.

Originally Posted by bead crazy

So if I put 2 devilbiss together am I getting 10 LPM and 16 psi? Is that how it works?

No.

You would add the LPM output of both machines, but not the psi. You would get close to 10 LPM at 8.5 psi.

Originally Posted by bead crazy

Maybe I would be better off selling my Invacare and buying another devilbiss then.

Well, I do not sell the M-15, so of course I would say that you would be better off getting a second DeVilbiss than one of those.

But, take the M-15 out of the equation and replace it with another larger concentrator. The OG15 (that I do not sell) would be a comparable unit as far as volume and pressure output. The Onyx+ (that I do not sell, either) may put out slightly higher psi at roughly the same volume. The Regalia (that I do sell) would put out more LPM, but at a lower psi (7-9 psi).

You have to take the needs of your torch into consideration. Does your torch need higher flow more than it needs higher pressure? If so, then you would be better off with something that provided the higher flow, even if the pressure were a little lower.

Is your torch large or small? A small torch may do almost equally well on two 5 LPM concentrators as it would on a single larger unit because many of these smaller torches only need around 7 LPM, or so. However, when you get a larger torch, or a less efficient one, that needs every bit of the oxygen you can feed it, you will notice a difference between two 5 LPM units put together and a single unit. Remember how I said that anytime you put two units together, you will lose a tiny bit of flow?

Now, here's the thing... even if you lose a little bit of flow, you are still going to be getting around 9-9.5 LPM from two DeVilbisses put together. That is less than 10 LPM, but it is also more than 7 or 8 LPM. So, if you have a hungry torch, your best choice would be a 10 LPM machine, your second best choice would be two DeVilbisses put together, and then your third best choice would be a new, non-tweaked 7-8 LPM machine (and your fourth best choice would be a reconditioned/used tweaked 8 LPM machine). IMHO, that is.

Budget is also a consideration. I know that not everyone can afford the up front cost of a larger machine. I think in your case, since you already have a DeVilbiss, it would be a wise move to just get a second DeVilbiss and see how that works for you. You would be getting more volume for less money.

[bead crazy]

I have a betta torch so I don't think that it needs the high pressures. I just want it to be hotter so I thought that is what makes it hotter. My head is spinning this is so much to think about. So it sounds like the best bet would be to get another devilbiss. I just want more heat so I can do boro better. I am able to do in now with one devilbiss but not like I would like to be able to do.

[squid]

If you already have the Invacare, I would go ahead and hook them up. If you are worried about back pressure, PM Kimberly for a couple of check valves to keep the Devlibiss from backpressuring the INvacare. They work fine together and it will make your flame a lot hotter.

[kbinkster]

Volume is the key to the Betta. I agree with Squid. Try what you have (but with check valves to prevent backflow), first. You don't have to have higher pressure with the Betta. It's nice if you want more thrust, but it isn't necessary.