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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

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  #1  
Old 2008-03-16, 7:12am
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Iwantonetoo Iwantonetoo is offline
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Default tanked oxy and boro

Hi all, I am a newbie to boro as of January, so it's still a learning curve here.

How long does a tank normally last you guys? This one is the smaller sized I think they call it 20 ? Because I didn't think I could maneuver the big tank where I need to get it. I'm wondering if I have the regulator set wrong.

I bought an oxycon, because I was going through oxygen like mad. But I don't get the cool colors with the oxycon, so I refilled my tank to see for sure.

The tank lasted 3 hours. (that's being generous) And I got nice colors. I'm fine using tanked oxy when I want to play with boro colors, (until I can spend another 500 on a 2nd oxycon) but I'd like to play more than 3 hours at a time.

Thanks for any answers.
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  #2  
Old 2008-03-16, 8:30am
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Well, I'm awaiting my M15 from Brent, but right now, I'm using tanked 125 cf Oxygen (I believe that's 6x more oxygen than a 20). It lasts me almost exactly 6 hours per tank on my Bobcat, doing boro. I lease 4 tanks and get them refilled 2x a week. Besides the cost per tank, the gas time taking them for refill is a killer too.

I so desperately need that M15, and I think you can still strike or reduce your pieces with an oxycon.

I think it's incredible that you're getting 3 hours out of a 20 cf tank! Doing boro, I can pay for a new M15 in savings every month or 2. hehe.
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  #3  
Old 2008-03-16, 10:00am
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I think it's phenomenal that you get 3 hours out of a 20 cf tank. I have a 88 cf tank that I get about 4 hours on and a 125 cf tank that I get about 6 hours on.

Just as an aside, I also have an M15. I don't like it for boro, it's too slooooooooooooow. But I got that instant gratification thing going on.
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  #4  
Old 2008-03-16, 12:33pm
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This is one expensive hobby... I've spent WELL over $4000 this month on it, and I can see that just to make a few ugly pieces, I will spend an average of $1000 a month in gas, glass and fuel. Of course, I'm very very new to glass, so everything takes me longer to make, and I'm still learning, so I spend a lot on tools and books too.

I'm curious what other people spend on their costs (selling or not selling) per month doing glass?

Last edited by Hels; 2008-03-16 at 1:14pm.
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  #5  
Old 2008-03-16, 3:33pm
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well it's good to know I am not alone in the tanked oxy thing. I thought maybe I was wasting it somehow. I even turn off the oxygen feed when I go across the room to the kiln (maybe 12 feet) and while I am choosing new colors for the next project.

As for what I spend per month. Do you really want us to total it all up? LOL OMG, it could be depressing! One can never have enough tools, or glass, or findings, or OOH maybe another kiln? (I have 2, I'd like another, go figure)

I'll have to see what I do spend now, just out of curiosity.

Sheri
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  #6  
Old 2008-03-16, 4:59pm
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I switched to Oxycons for this very reason, I was going through tanked oxy like crazy! I was going to the welding shop twice a week for oxygen and only working a couple of hours a day. But the colors are so much better with the tanks.

I wonder if liquid oxygen lasts longer? Anyone use it?
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  #7  
Old 2008-03-17, 11:41pm
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When I worked tanked I could get about 10-12 hours on a 337. those are the biggest tanks you can rent normally. 3 hours on a 20??? that is pretty crazy! I would go through 4-5 337 tanks in a week. I was spending 20$ (at a discount price) on each tank so about 100$ a week plus gas out of state.

I use liquid oxygen now. a tank lasts me about a month. I pay 75$ for a fill (which is cheap as hell- I mean the deep dark depths of hell) and 45$ a month for rental (which is even cheaper than the above mentioned)
I have to drive out of state with that sucker rachet tied to a pickup bed but it is worth it. A place here in town was gonna charge me about 400$. Most places will want a deposit. a big one. 500-1500$ and most won't deliver to residential areas. (even with a letter of permission from the mayor -trust me on that)
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  #8  
Old 2008-03-17, 11:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwantonetoo View Post
well it's good to know I am not alone in the tanked oxy thing. I thought maybe I was wasting it somehow. I even turn off the oxygen feed when I go across the room to the kiln (maybe 12 feet) and while I am choosing new colors for the next project.

As for what I spend per month. Do you really want us to total it all up? LOL OMG, it could be depressing! One can never have enough tools, or glass, or findings, or OOH maybe another kiln? (I have 2, I'd like another, go figure)

I'll have to see what I do spend now, just out of curiosity.

Sheri
If nothing else, get a bigger tank. And negotiate with your supplier. IF they see you are spending alot of $ with them they should be willing to work with you.

I am in Illinois too. Is there an SJ smith up in your area? I go to the one in Davenport IA and they are trully awesome to work with. I know there is one in peoria (but that is pretty far for you)
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  #9  
Old 2008-03-18, 6:10am
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If you can find a smaller supplier, they're usually more willing to bend over backwards for you. Also, if there are other workers near you or somewhere that teaches, ask who they use and don't be shy about mentioning who sent you.
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  #10  
Old 2008-03-19, 1:57pm
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What kind of torch are you using Sheri?

I'm on a Lynx and I'm using 2 5lpm oxycons. I get great color -- if I work it right of course.

You should be able to find an oxycon for less than 500. I think I paid 300 each for mine. Used.
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Lynx with 2 5-lpm oxycons
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  #11  
Old 2008-03-19, 4:07pm
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try www.hobbiesforus.com for concentrators.

free shipping, 2 year warranty
Not affiliated but I got great service from them when I ran my minor with soft glass.
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  #12  
Old 2008-03-19, 5:41pm
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Default Oxy usage

I'm using a Carlile CC burner and I have two 2R oxy tanks. After renting for a few years I bought them. A refill costs $20 + tax & hazard stuff of about $2.50, so $22.50 to refill each tank. The 2R is the biggest oxy tank you can get. I can make 7-8 marbles with a tank (I think-I never counted and wrote it down; 7-8 marbles is the minimum-maybe I get a few more out of one tank). It takes me about an hour and a quarter to make a marble (I'm new at it; I've made only about 100 marbles so far).
When you rent the biggest tank it has a different designation (I forget what it is). Once you buy it they call it a 2R.
The oxy gauge should maintain the pressure for a few hours after you turn the tank off (if you don't release the pressure, like some people say to do). If the tank pressure goes down significantly within an hour, I'd guess you've got a leak.
I can pretty well judge when the tank pressure gets low if I have enough gas or not to make another marble. If I don't think I have enough oxy I start making beads and pendants until the gas runs out and I switch tanks.
Colors? Maybe you need a lot of pressure on the tourch to get them. I've heard that you don't get much pressure from an oxygen generator. The oxy gauge on the tourch side I usually keep set at a low of 25 psi and a high of 35 psi.
Finally, even though I get my vortexes to go straight and deep, make cool flowers and love making 'matrix marbles' with silver fume, I'm pretty much self trained (thank the heavens for the 'how to' articles in GlassLine). The reason I really like this forum is I get feedback from other peoples posts. So, if you got feedback, lay it on me.
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  #13  
Old 2008-03-19, 6:07pm
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I'm on a mini cc, and it is new to me. I started on a hot head In July 07, then in January upgraded to this.

My oxy con is an M10. Is that less than 2 M5's? Maybe I need to adjust something with it for the color. (I paid 499 for it and picked it up locally)

The reason I got the smaller tank was for ease of getting it into my studio on my own. I leased it from "Airgas". I paid for 1 year up front which saved me like 60 bucks on rental if I remember right. I think by the time my year is up, I'll have a 2nd oxycon.

Unless I figure out how to get more color with the one I have now.

Thanks for all of the input, it's really appreciated.

Sheri
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  #14  
Old 2008-04-02, 12:25am
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I have worked on 2 oxy cons with boro and it was not nearly enough for the way I work...even on small pieces. Personal preference of course, but I definitely couldn't work on a set-up like that on a regular basis...
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  #15  
Old 2008-04-05, 8:47am
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Sheri, I recognize your "newbie" status and am wondering about the use of oxygen vs striking the glass to get colors? I agree that gmkcpa that it seems like an excessive use of oxygen.

Someone above mentioned how they shut off or turn down their torch when picking colors or traveling to kiln. I do this myself. The use of a striker or or whatever you use to light up is a lot cheaper than letting your torch run with no glass in the flame.

Lots of luck with your endeavors. We are looking forward to seeing your work..
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  #16  
Old 2008-04-05, 9:12am
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Yes, I do turn off the torch when I'm not melting anything, like picking colors, placing in the kiln etc.

I was just wondering if I can get it hot enough to strike colors, with just the 10LPM concentrator.

I can melt it just fine, I get way prettier colors with the tanked oxy.
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  #17  
Old 2008-04-05, 9:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmkcpa View Post
The oxy gauge should maintain the pressure for a few hours after you turn the tank off (if you don't release the pressure, like some people say to do). If the tank pressure goes down significantly within an hour, I'd guess you've got a leak.

Colors? Maybe you need a lot of pressure on the tourch to get them. I've heard that you don't get much pressure from an oxygen generator. The oxy gauge on the tourch side I usually keep set at a low of 25 psi and a high of 35 psi.
I just reread this post,

I wonder....When I am hooked to the concentrator, I am not using the regulator. Am I supposed to? I have the gauge on the concentrator full open, but no regulator between it and the torch.

When I use Tanked oxy, I have the regulator hooked to the tank.

Should I use the regulator with the concentrator?
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  #18  
Old 2008-04-05, 9:45am
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No regulators with concentrators. Only with tanks. I am looking into getting a M-15. I have a bobcat right now so that would get it rocking but I do want to upgrade to a lynx. At that point I will look into getting another M-15. I just have to wait to see if I get into Glass Stock before I can purchase. 4 weeks and counting til the lottery!
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bravo torch with 2 ex20's
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  #19  
Old 2008-04-07, 10:43am
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hmm.. from my calculations i tought it would last longer... Im waiting for my lynx and im going to use a 230 cf tank (maybe two).. but i tought one would last for aprox 3 days assuming that ill work 6 hours a day..
So for a lynx, how much does a oxy tank last?
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  #20  
Old 2008-04-07, 12:10pm
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thanks. for all of the info so far.
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  #21  
Old 2008-04-07, 12:45pm
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my bobcat will give me about 10 hours on a "T" cylinder ... I think the "T" is also called a "300" ...

of course I am in BC ... so each T cylinder costs me $73 plus 2 ferry rides (another $60) ... omigod I though gas was expensive in Hawaii .. Canada is even worse.

I spoke to Wally @ GTT and he suggests the Regalia ($1500) or 2 Devilbiss ($375 each) to run the bobcat for boro.

I am purchasing an M15 and should get it in a few weeks. (still a little low on o2)

However ... the quality of your colors isn't totally dependent on your flow of o2 .. you can strike your colors in the kiln. Before I sell older pieces (stuff from last season) I cycle them through the kiln a few times ... run it at 1130 then 920 ... back and forth a few times ... then anneal it at 1050 ... it can make some of your colors grow and get cooler looking ... especially any fumed color.

changes in the color happen at different temp's .. ESPECIALLY fumed silver ... and a little extra kiln time (with temp changes) can really improve the appearance.

try a fumed honeycomb something (pipe or pendant) and cycle it through the kiln as I described ... it will make you a believer
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