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2008-05-19, 5:21pm
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product of the universe
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Join Date: Sep 06, 2005
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Boro to bullseye
I'm a full time boro worker. Glass is my occupation as well as hobby, and i wanna get away from strictly working with just boro. I just ordered the bullseye starter pack, some fritt, and some billets. I've worked moretti a little but no good results. So i was wondering what i should expect from this glass as opposed to boro. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I plan on making beads at first to get used to the glass but eventually i wanna pick up billets from the kiln with metal puntys or blowpipes and see where i can go from there.
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2008-05-19, 6:21pm
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No Problem!
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I'll reel off a few things here..some are probably obvious but I'll go there just in case.
It's going to be similar to Moretti but a bit more stiff.
I tend to think that in some ways it's actually trickier to go from a boro background to soft, but don't let that discourage you, just tone down the heat, and be more ginger and patient with it, especially when heating the tip of a cold rod.
The nice thing is the more quiet and mellow working style that it allows for. The glass comes to working temp much quicker (and stays there longer), which is a nice change sometimes.
Finding a nice clean sweet spot in the flame is very important as carbon scum can be deposited whereas this is a non issue with boro.
Like many boro colors there are the reactive colors (sensitive to flame chemistry) like silver glasses,reduction glass, luster glass, striking colors like transparent red etc.
Some WYSIWYG colors will react to flame chemistry (copper greens for ex.) while many are going to be very stable WYSIWYG colors.
Paying closer attention to maintaining a nice heat base is important to prevent cracking with the higher COE. You can't hang out of the flame too long before the bead gets too cold to shock it upon putting it back in.
It has a larger working range that equates to waiting a little longer for the glass to "set-up."
The ways in which colors interact with each other/appearance when layered etc are vast. Experimenting is good as well as looking/asking around to see what does what with what..there are alot of resources here, out on the rest of the www and some books.
In the end it's all just glass and with a "little getting to know you time" you'll get a feel for it no problem.
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2008-05-19, 7:04pm
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yukue fumei
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cool Chris!
Are you going to have Bullseye Murrini for sale? 
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2008-05-19, 7:20pm
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product of the universe
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I'm Definitly going to be giving murinne a try, so many colors for shading, it looks like its going to be awesome. Being a soft glass i think the layering will go much smoother than boro not to mention the final heat before the pull probably won't take a half hour with a delta raging. I'm pretty sure i gotta develop some different techniques for soft glass but maybe not.
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And the men who hold high places,Must be the ones to start,To mold a new reality,Closer to the heart--Rush
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2008-05-19, 8:44pm
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yukue fumei
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YAHOO!
I can't wait!
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2008-05-20, 9:02am
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yukue fumei
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Hi Chris-
I just saw your rooster boro milli--are you selling some?
If so, how much for how much?
thanks!
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2008-05-20, 3:15pm
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product of the universe
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The rooster milli is $1.00 a gram.
So on the bullseye what should i hold the kiln at while working, And what is a good annealing schedule?
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2008-05-20, 4:02pm
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yukue fumei
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Join Date: Apr 25, 2006
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BE anneals at 970F
Woohoo!
I gotta go back and figure out how much a gram is and I will send you a PM!
thanks!!
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2008-05-20, 4:14pm
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Glass Hive Kiln Tech.
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Join Date: Jun 23, 2007
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Bullseye has really good how to's and color overlaying guides.
http://bullseyeglass.com/education/torchtips/
I think you will find this is easier to work with for your sculptural soft glass needs. Be sure to look at both rod and sheet sections as their color line is fairly consistent.
http://bullseyeglass.com/education/
I Think of the glasses this way
Moretti is the crayon color palate
Boro the fun and twisted palate
Bullseye the ice cream and shine palate (meaning great reduction colors.
Hope that helps, and enjoy the journey 
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2008-05-21, 10:24am
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You can anneal both boro and bullseye at 1000.
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2008-05-21, 1:07pm
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No Problem!
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Hmm, boro actually anneals at a minimum of 1050F
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2008-05-21, 3:01pm
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product of the universe
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Join Date: Sep 06, 2005
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Which torch will give me the best working atmosphere? The main torch i use at the moment is a beth pm2d, should that be alright? Or would a different torch work better?
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And the men who hold high places,Must be the ones to start,To mold a new reality,Closer to the heart--Rush
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2008-05-21, 4:12pm
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Glass Hive Kiln Tech.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chayes
Which torch will give me the best working atmosphere? The main torch i use at the moment is a beth pm2d, should that be alright? Or would a different torch work better?
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No, sell it to me  But seriously, yes. That torch is better in my opinion than the premix that you use for boro. Just keep in mind it melts twice as fast 
I am currently using the Knight Bullet, a bit hotter than the barracuda, but the most torch I could afford. The PM2D WC is my soft glass dream.
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2008-05-21, 6:37pm
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No Problem!
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Join Date: Oct 14, 2005
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Most any surface mix torch will do well with soft-glasses in general. Minor burner, Mini-CC, lynx and the larger GTT's are all popular and well suited.
I haven't worked soft glass on a beth but it would probably do well.
Biggest concern that comes about when going to the soft glasses is a nice clean flame (efficient and complete combustion) and a nice spread of heat within the flame. Which basically just equates to a quality surface mix torch.
Pre-mixes are tough to work softglass with, not impossible but it's just not advised due to the pitfalls of boiling, the harsh thermally shocking heat and carbon scum.
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2008-05-22, 4:50am
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I used my PM2D for a few years with Bullseye. It will work fine, just keep the oxy up when using some of the pale translucent colors. They tend to reduce more easily with the Beth torches. If you haven't played with soft glass before, you will definitely have a learning curve, but once you get used to the shocky quality, as compared with boro, you'll do great, I'm sure. Murini are fantastic, with the ability to paint on thin layers of color - again, watch out for the shock and you'll have a great time.
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2008-05-22, 7:02am
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i found bulleseye to be the closest working properties to boro, sets up quick. i dont like it because of that for beads, but it will be a good transition to soda lime. there are some great colors! i cant wait to see pics.
ro
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Gtt Mirage torch with tanked oxygen.
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2008-05-22, 12:21pm
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And the best part is that the rod BE is fully compatible with the sheet BE so you can use cut pieces of sheet in your murrinis! Look for work by Jim Jones, Bullfrog breads out of Portland OR and you'll see the *incredible* stuff he does with bundled sheet.
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2008-05-22, 1:23pm
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product of the universe
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Join Date: Sep 06, 2005
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I should be getting my order tomorrow. I can't wait to open the box of goodies and get experimenting.
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Chris
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2008-05-24, 6:41am
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Anything above the strain point will eventually take the stress out. You can anneal it at 1000 degrees it just takes longer. You have to read the tech. information to figure out how long it will take. It depends on the size of the glass.
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2008-05-24, 9:43am
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when i work both boro and soda lime in the same kiln, i do boro first, anneal at 1050. ramp down to soda lime temp, 970 then add and anneal that.
ro
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2008-05-24, 3:24pm
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product of the universe
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I worked the glass last night. Made a few beads, a few pendants, a implosion rose marble out of a billet, and one twisty marble that cracked from being too close to the kiln door. I Picked a few billets out of the kiln with a 15mm pyrex rod and heated em til they were round added straight lines of black and white and pulled em out into canes. I got about 15-20 feet of cane around 8mm diameter. All in all this is a great glass. I figure after i get some work done tonight i'm going to play with the bullseye some more.
One quick question when heating the glass a white film appears on the surface does this mean i am using too much oxy or propane? It seems when i turned up the propane on one color the white completely dissapeared.
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2008-05-27, 4:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chayes
I worked the glass last night. Made a few beads, a few pendants, a implosion rose marble out of a billet, and one twisty marble that cracked from being too close to the kiln door. I Picked a few billets out of the kiln with a 15mm pyrex rod and heated em til they were round added straight lines of black and white and pulled em out into canes. I got about 15-20 feet of cane around 8mm diameter. All in all this is a great glass. I figure after i get some work done tonight i'm going to play with the bullseye some more.
One quick question when heating the glass a white film appears on the surface does this mean i am using too much oxy or propane? It seems when i turned up the propane on one color the white completely dissapeared.
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Sounds like your burning it up. Probably just need to work it a little cooler
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The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. ---- Albert Einstein
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2008-05-27, 10:21am
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What confused me about this was when you said you turned up the propane. I am not sure if you made your flamer hotter or cooler when you did that.
Turn your flame down and work further out in the flame. It doesn't take as much heat to melt bullseye.
What color were you working?
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2008-05-27, 11:51am
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Soft-glass whites tend to turn transparent when they get molten, and return to white once they cool down. That may be what happened with your white? Turning up the gas should make the torch hotter as well as more reducing. I guess the real question is, does the white film you are now getting on the glass remain after annealing? If so, you fried it (easy to do if you're used to boro temps.) Otherwise it could be slight scumming from too much reduction? Some of the soft glass colors are more picky about neutral flames than some of the boro colors. Sounds like you are figuring it out....
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"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; in practice there is." ~ Chuck Reid
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2008-05-27, 1:20pm
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product of the universe
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So i guess that its reduction . It was on certain color billets. I worked a neon green looking billet last night and no problems. I guess it just takes time to understand just how things are going to react.
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And the men who hold high places,Must be the ones to start,To mold a new reality,Closer to the heart--Rush
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2008-05-29, 12:27am
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product of the universe
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The bullseye rooster.
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Chris
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2008-05-29, 11:40am
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HA! The ROOSTER -- When not just ANY cocky dude'll do!
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2008-05-29, 11:50am
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yukue fumei
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wow--they awesome Chris!!!!
I love 'em!!
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2008-05-30, 3:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebrand Beads
HA! The ROOSTER -- When not just ANY cocky dude'll do!
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That rooster is very cool!
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2008-06-02, 10:50am
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product of the universe
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Still having fun with this stuff blew out and broke my first vessel today. What a task, it started out as a 1/4 lb billet then i used a 22 mil boro tube to pick the billet out of the kiln. Heated it til it was a small gather and used a blowtube to blow it out. All went fine til i punty'd up to the bottom and tore the top off. I was heating it to flare it open and crack shot right up from where the punty was attached. C'est la vie
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