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2011-05-26, 2:17am
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picking Job's Tears
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Join Date: Jan 27, 2009
Location: Hilo, Hawaii
Posts: 6,825
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Bleeding lines, hothead versus propane/oxy torch?
For one of my questions I had about setting up my Cricket (coming from a Hothead) I found an answer (in exactly one place, DeAnne's tutorial about piping propane into the house ( http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=125930). I didn't even know there was gas plumbing tape, I was just sitting there with all those brass parts and thought "this can't be safe without tape or some other sealant").
For the other remaining one (so far I haven't pressure tested or lit it yet) I haven't:
When I was turning off my Hothead I always turned it off, shut off the valve at the tank (I torch outside and my hose is 10 ft long. Seeing people with BBQ tanks under their tables makes me cringe) and then relit the Hothead and fused shorts together or some such until the flame went out and turned it off when the hissing stopped. Having just disconnected it I know that the line was pretty well bled, nothing happened when I disconnected it.
With a propane/oxygen torch, running on a concentrator, can one make similar use of what is in the lines after turning the propane and oxycon off or does one have to just bleed them one after the other, and if so, which one first?
Given the cost of both propane (I paid $4.80/gallon a week ago+tax, i.e. $5.00) and electricity (for the oxycon) here, if I can make any use of what's in the lines I'm thinking I might as well. I know the hoses are much smaller diameter, and as I'm not running propane at tank pressure a lot less gas per volume as well. I can let it go it I have to.
Thanks all.
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HotHead on bulk propane and a Glasshive kiln
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2011-05-26, 3:02am
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Now part of the Dark Side
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Join Date: Jul 02, 2010
Location: North Central PA
Posts: 966
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My lines aren't that long, and the pressure is much lower than a HH, I just open the torch valves let it bleed out, with the vent going. I've tried to burn off the gasses but the torch only stays lit for about a minute, and you have to keep opening up the oxy to keep it neutral.
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Roy
Hot glass does not crack.
Unless it is glowing and drippy, hot glass looks like cold glass.
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2011-05-26, 3:08am
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picking Job's Tears
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Join Date: Jan 27, 2009
Location: Hilo, Hawaii
Posts: 6,825
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Roy, appreciate your comment, thank you (but I'm not sure we're not talking at cross purposes here). A minute was about the most I got bleeding the Hothead line. If I could get a minute bleeding the Cricket lines I could do the same as I did with the Hothead.
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HotHead on bulk propane and a Glasshive kiln
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2011-05-26, 3:20am
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Now part of the Dark Side
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Join Date: Jul 02, 2010
Location: North Central PA
Posts: 966
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The problem with Oxy/Propane is the oxy in the line will run out way before the propane, and after about 20 seconds your flame will turn yellow. You can keep opening the oct valve on the torch but it just runs out even faster. You don't have that problem with a HH as it uses atmospheric oxygen, make sense?
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Roy
Hot glass does not crack.
Unless it is glowing and drippy, hot glass looks like cold glass.
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2011-05-26, 3:25am
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Now part of the Dark Side
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Join Date: Jul 02, 2010
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I didn't see that you were on an oxycon, yes you could do what you did with the HH. I use tanked oxy, it bleeds out the same as the propane. Shut the propane off at the tank work until no flame, turn off at torch then back out the regulator adjustment. This is important, it will make your regulator last longer.
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Roy
Hot glass does not crack.
Unless it is glowing and drippy, hot glass looks like cold glass.
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2011-05-26, 4:07am
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picking Job's Tears
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Join Date: Jan 27, 2009
Location: Hilo, Hawaii
Posts: 6,825
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Thanks Roy (but I didn't understand all of that - this is getting very much to the end of my day, it's after 1 a.m. here. I'm glad this is in a permanent area)
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HotHead on bulk propane and a Glasshive kiln
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2011-05-26, 6:55am
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
Posts: 5,200
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Just turn off propane valve as it comes into studio (at safety shut off valve) and let torch burn till it quits.... Shut down oxycon and let pressure drop off...
Close torch valves.... You will probably not have any "working time" to speak of...
That simple...
Dale
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San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal
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2011-05-26, 7:43am
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da General
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,002
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Maren,
(Re-posting from the bathroom thread) I clean the ports of my Barracuda at the end of each torching session (started this habit when I was on the Bobcat for the non-triple-mix GTTs tend to have more carbon build-up especially on oxycons). My Cuda came with cleaning wires, brass brush and a 1/2" dowel.
At the end of a torching session:
• Turn off the propane valve on the torch
• Turn off the propane at the tank
• With the oxygen still running, brush the face of the torch with the brass brush and clean each port with the cleaning wire(s) (I have two sizes of wire - large for the inner and small for the outer rings)
• Turn off the oxygen in order to light the torch
• Add oxygen to a neural flame and whack the torch gently but firmly with the dowel (this is to blow out anything that gotten pushed in with the wire)
• Increase the propane to bleed out the line by turning up the torch valve
• Turn off the oxycons
• Once the propane is bleed, turn off the propane valve of the torch (don't forget this step!)
• Release the propane regulator pressure
• Turn off the safety shut off valves on the outside and the inside (our propane line is hard-lined in with shut off valves)
Hope this helps!
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Hayley
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2011-05-26, 8:04pm
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
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Quote:
• Increase the propane to bleed out the line by turning up the torch valve
• Turn off the oxycons
• Once the propane is bleed, turn off the propane valve of the torch (don't forget this step!)
• Release the propane regulator pressure
• Turn off the safety shut off valves on the outside and the inside (our propane line is hard-lined in with shut off valves)
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The only problem with this ( the last few steps) is you still have propane pressure in propane lines.... You have to turn off valve from tank first then burn off fuel, then you can close torch fuel valve...
The last part of your procedure is exactly backwards.... It should read like this...
• Turn off the safety shut off valves on the outside and the inside.
• Increase the propane to bleed out the line by turning up the torch valve.
• Release the propane regulator pressure.
• Once the propane is bleed, turn off the propane valve of the torch
• Turn off the oxycons.
Since oxygen is supplies by oxycon you don't have to do anything special with it....
Dale
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San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal
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2011-05-26, 8:34pm
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da General
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale M.
The only problem with this ( the last few steps) is you still have propane pressure in propane lines.... You have to turn off valve from tank first then burn off fuel, then you can close torch fuel valve...
The last part of your procedure is exactly backwards.... It should read like this...
• Turn off the safety shut off valves on the outside and the inside.
• Increase the propane to bleed out the line by turning up the torch valve.
• Release the propane regulator pressure.
• Once the propane is bleed, turn off the propane valve of the torch
• Turn off the oxycons.
Since oxygen is supplies by oxycon you don't have to do anything special with it....
Dale
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Dale - That's exactly what I do - turning off the tank valve, bleed the line, then turning off the pressure of the regulator, finally turning off the safety valves.
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Hayley
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2011-05-27, 6:26am
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
Posts: 5,200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayley
Dale - That's exactly what I do - turning off the tank valve, bleed the line, then turning off the pressure of the regulator, finally turning off the safety valves.
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Ok.... But its not the procedural order that you wrote in first comment...
Dale
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San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal
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2011-05-27, 10:14pm
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da General
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayley
Maren,
(Re-posting from the bathroom thread) I clean the ports of my Barracuda at the end of each torching session (started this habit when I was on the Bobcat for the non-triple-mix GTTs tend to have more carbon build-up especially on oxycons). My Cuda came with cleaning wires, brass brush and a 1/2" dowel.
At the end of a torching session:
• Turn off the propane valve on the torch
• Turn off the propane at the tank
• With the oxygen still running, brush the face of the torch with the brass brush and clean each port with the cleaning wire(s) (I have two sizes of wire - large for the inner and small for the outer rings)
• Turn off the oxygen in order to light the torch
• Add oxygen to a neural flame and whack the torch gently but firmly with the dowel (this is to blow out anything that gotten pushed in with the wire)
• Increase the propane to bleed out the line by turning up the torch valve
• Turn off the oxycons
• Once the propane is bleed, turn off the propane valve of the torch (don't forget this step!)
• Release the propane regulator pressure
• Turn off the safety shut off valves on the outside and the inside (our propane line is hard-lined in with shut off valves)
Hope this helps!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale M.
Ok.... But its not the procedural order that you wrote in first comment...
Dale
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Not sure what you meant - it was the second bullet point. Essentially, I turn off the propane valve and clean the port holes with the oxygen running only, then I light the torch, whack the torch to get rid off anything I might have pushed in with the port wire clean, and finally bleed the line. Perhaps you got confused by "Turn off the oxygen in order to light the torch" for I didn't spell out the need to turn on the propane to light the torch?
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Hayley
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2011-05-28, 12:08am
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picking Job's Tears
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Join Date: Jan 27, 2009
Location: Hilo, Hawaii
Posts: 6,825
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So for myself, working with one oxycon and everything being outside it would be:
Turn off the propane valve on the torch
Turn off the propane at the tank
Turn off the oxygen in order to light the torch
(work as long as you can)
Release the propane regulator pressure
(work some more?)
Once the propane is bled, turn off the propane valve of the torch
Turn off the oxycon
?
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HotHead on bulk propane and a Glasshive kiln
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2011-05-28, 6:39am
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayley
Not sure what you meant - it was the second bullet point. Essentially, I turn off the propane valve and clean the port holes with the oxygen running only, then I light the torch, whack the torch to get rid off anything I might have pushed in with the port wire clean, and finally bleed the line. Perhaps you got confused by "Turn off the oxygen in order to light the torch" for I didn't spell out the need to turn on the propane to light the torch?
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Oops.... Think I missed your second bullet point.(must have been brain fade or something)....
Dale
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San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal
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2011-05-28, 6:41am
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maren
So for myself, working with one oxycon and everything being outside it would be:
Turn off the propane valve on the torch
Turn off the propane at the tank
Turn off the oxygen in order to light the torch
(work as long as you can)
Release the propane regulator pressure
(work some more?)
Once the propane is bled, turn off the propane valve of the torch
Turn off the oxycon
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Once you turn off propane and oxygen you will not really have much time to do any work.... Maybe minute or two (at most)...
Dale
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San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal
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2011-05-30, 4:33pm
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picking Job's Tears
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Join Date: Jan 27, 2009
Location: Hilo, Hawaii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale M.
Once you turn off propane and oxygen you will not really have much time to do any work.... Maybe minute or two (at most)...
Dale
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Understood. I also omitted the point of turning on the oxygen at the torch again after lighting it (sorry, I'm down with 'something' - brain fog included).
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HotHead on bulk propane and a Glasshive kiln
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2011-05-30, 11:29pm
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I speak Murrini!
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Join Date: Oct 12, 2006
Location: In a Glass House, CA
Posts: 9,170
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(Maren...just me watching from the sidelines!  Good luck with it all; I'm sure in time it will become second nature...enjoy the new torch! And...whoa, the SILENCE!  )
Hugs,
De
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