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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2010-09-03, 11:18am
naom-s naom-s is offline
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Default What would you do?

As An Israeli, I first time came to this sutuation with an Etsy buyer:
An Etsy sell 12$ worth: 2 flowers, 3 leaves3 spacers.

Before the customer bought she wrote ON THE PAYPAL INVOICE:


"I'm predicating this purchase on the assumption that the blue flowers hang properly from correctly placed bails and will NOT flip over if strung at or near the bottom of the strand. Please deliver via USPS to my PO Box 5551. Thank you."


And now:
"This is to let you know that one of the petals on one of the two beautiful flowers in this set broke off this morning.

You may recall that I predicated my purchase of these flowers on them being properly bailed in the back. They are not. Thus, I was forced to create a makeshift bail by stringing a small loop of seed beads through the hole on each. This enabled them to hang vertically. However, one of the petals adjacent to the seed beads apparently could not withstand any minute resulting force. Thus, the flower beads are not usable, wearable or durable as you sent them.

Unfortunately, I have already commissioned other beads to match your lovely focals and am therefore relying on their durable presence in the final strand.

So my question to you is: Would you please BOTH repair the broken petal AND properly bail the back of each flower? By "properly bail," I mean add a glass bail high near the top back edge of each flower such that the flowers hang straight down when strung near the bottom of the strand when strung.

If you will, I will mail both flowers to you immediately at:

NAOMI SHAHAM
2 ZEEV ST
HAIFA 35703
ISREAEL

Thank you. I look forward to your response.

Best wishes,"




Please I'd like to hear sugestions...what do you think or do...
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  #2  
Old 2010-09-03, 11:56am
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I would return her money to her. You can't be "repairing" beads.
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  #3  
Old 2010-09-03, 12:21pm
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I think I would ask her to return the beads and then refund her money.
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  #4  
Old 2010-09-03, 12:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbinkster View Post
I think I would ask her to return the beads and then refund her money.
I think this is what I would do too.
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  #5  
Old 2010-09-03, 12:41pm
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Return and refund is the only way to go, it sounds like you are never going to make her happy, she was unhappy before she even purchased them.
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  #6  
Old 2010-09-03, 12:55pm
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I would very kindly & politely ask her to return the "defective" beads and then refund her $ for them...
(and internally, in my mind, I would tell her to take a flying leap into a Acme black hole!)

She sounds like trouble right from the start! Youch.
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  #7  
Old 2010-09-03, 1:29pm
naom-s naom-s is offline
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Thank you friends for your kind sugestions.
I was thinking to send this back to her.
I'll be happy to get feedback whith your comments.
My English sucks...

Dear ///,
Sorry that you're not setisfied with the flower beads.
Unfortenetly I cannot repair the beads, and not sure I can adjust them as your reqire.
I'll be happy to refound your buy and shipping cost and Paypal fees after you'll return them to the address bellow.
Sorry again for your disappintment.
Regards,
Naomi
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  #8  
Old 2010-09-03, 1:37pm
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I think it sounds fine, except I would be definite that you can't adjust them so she won't ask you to try anyway.

I retyped it with corrections since you complained about your English. You can use it if it would make you feel more comfortable communicating with her. I do think what you typed is perfectly understandable though. (buyer doesn't have any paypal fees, so I left that out)

Sorry that you're not satisfied with the flower beads.
Unfortunately, I cannot repair the beads, and I can't adjust them as you require.
I'll be happy to refund your purchase and shipping costs after you return them to the address below.
Sorry again for your disappointment.
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  #9  
Old 2010-09-03, 1:41pm
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Thank you Squid!!!
Have a nice weekend!
Naomi
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  #10  
Old 2010-09-03, 1:42pm
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You are welcome! Good luck and a nice weekend to you too
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  #11  
Old 2010-09-04, 7:06am
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Would it have killed her to send a convo prior to purchasing? She could have easily found out whether they had bails or not. Also, I'm assuming they were listed as "beads" and not "pendants" which already imply that they have holes and not bails. Then she pretty much admits that she put force on them, which caused the damage. Yeah, she had her mind made up from the get-go that she was gonna be displeased. Refund & never sell to her again.
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  #12  
Old 2010-09-04, 7:10am
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I would repair them, or make new. But that's just the way I am. If she asked for a refund, I would have her send the beads and give a refund. I try to do everything I can to make the customer happy within reason of course, and in the long run it always pays off. They come back.
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  #13  
Old 2010-09-04, 7:17am
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Some customers you want back; some customers you don't. The tricky part is determining whether this one CAN be satisfied, or whether trying to please her will lead to an escalating series of more and more difficult/unreasonable demands.

The fact that she did not ask first whether the beads had vertical bails indicates that she may not be inclined to be reasonable, but only time and further interaction will show for sure.
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  #14  
Old 2010-09-04, 7:26am
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I have to say, I have never had a customer yet that could not be satisfied. I guess that is possible. She did say that she expected the flowers to hang properly and not flip. According to her, they did not. I would feel responsible so I would fix them. Just from reading the correspondence, she does not seem to me to be making an unreasonable request.
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  #15  
Old 2010-09-04, 7:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassactcc View Post
I would repair them, or make new. But that's just the way I am. If she asked for a refund, I would have her send the beads and give a refund. I try to do everything I can to make the customer happy within reason of course, and in the long run it always pays off. They come back.
I dont think I would necessarily need the stress of this customer coming back and making requests that will add the cost for me, and make my time included cost more than it is really worth of. Plus that it leaves you the feeling getting ripped off by a customer. I dont think she was thinking of paying for her to buy the bails or for the time she would use.
When I first started about 8 years ago, the way things were priced (at least in UK where I learned) was depending on a time I used for the bead. And ofcourse expensive material would bump up the cost little too. So basically what she asked was to give her the bails for free (times 3 that a you should charge for them) and the amount of time it took to fix them, and also the broken piece, that she broke! With tape??? You cant fix glass, you have to make a new one.
Im just so sorry that anyone has to go through customers that are this unsatisfied from the start. If she had special demands for the piece, she should have contacted the seller before hand to make sure they met her requirements, and not try to guilt them for fixing it after they come up with a story of money tide for other stuff that should go with this piece. Im saying she is lying about that, and even if she isnt, tough titi said kitty!
I am such a bitch, and I could go to a loooong story of what Id love to do, but instead, I would take Kevans advice and try to avoid any future problems.

P.

Last edited by Pia Kaven; 2010-09-05 at 8:09am.
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  #16  
Old 2010-09-04, 7:35am
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How is a maker supposed to know (after the sale) what "hang properly" means for any given scenario a designer might be using them for? The lack of communication in advance combined with the blaming tone is what would make me wary.

I probably would have contacted the customer before shipping to clarify what they meant by "hang properly". I doubt I'd remake the beads; I'd just refund, but that's because I don't do custom work in the first place.
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  #17  
Old 2010-09-04, 7:42am
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I would say that if you tell in the description that they dont flip, then it is your responsibility to have them hang properly. If you just hope they are hanging properly before you buy, dont you think it is reasonable to ask first, and if they dont, you request custom beads or move on.
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  #18  
Old 2010-09-04, 7:52am
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"Properly" is subjective, too; it sounds like what the buyer wanted was pendants with a bail at the top. That's fine for specific applications, but not universally "proper".

I'd probably head off future problems of this sort by having at least one good clear pic of the back of the beads so people know how they need to be strung.
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  #19  
Old 2010-09-04, 7:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
I'd probably head off future problems of this sort by having at least one good clear pic of the back of the beads so people know how they need to be strung.
Yup, agree!
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  #20  
Old 2010-09-04, 7:54am
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I think I might have misunderstood something here. I was under the assumption that the flowers had a glass bail on them which was part of the bead. But even so, I would have checked to see if they hung properly even from a normal bail before I posted them. I would also say that I don't think that it should have to be specified that they hang properly, that should be assumed. I have made beads in the distant past when some pieces that I made were not balanced and did flip. I could not sell them. I'm not saying that this was the case here, but if it was, I would feel responsible. And yes, depending on the bead you can fix them.

Your not a bitch Pia, you just have an opinion and I respect that
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Old 2010-09-04, 7:55am
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Me too Kalera with the picture. And when I say "properly" I mean they are not hanging upside down, or facing the floor when strung.
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  #22  
Old 2010-09-04, 7:58am
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But if it is a bead, not a pendant, it should not "hang properly"? If I would want to use it for my seed bead bracelet, I would want it to "flip" so it will be flat on the bracelet, not hang of it. So all just depends what the buyer has in mind. I agree that there are certain requirements, no sharp edges and so on, but I dont think we should try to make beads that hang, unless we state that they do.

Last edited by Pia Kaven; 2010-09-04 at 8:02am.
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  #23  
Old 2010-09-04, 8:00am
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I am not trying to argue with anyone, I just want to get my point out there, and if I am wrong, I want to know it too. My english lacks the diplomacy, and I often sound like Im trying to pick up a fight, sorry, not my intention.
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Old 2010-09-04, 8:03am
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What I mean by "properly" being subjective is that I have pieces that are done button-style with a bail in the middle of the back, which I wear snug on a choker. Pieces like that, depending on their fragility, can be sewn onto bags or jackets, used as closures, and incorporated into bracelets. It's not a matter of a top bail being "right", it's just about how you plan to use the piece.
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Old 2010-09-04, 8:03am
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Not what it sounded like to me Pia. I get exactly what your saying. Your English makes perfect sense to me. There are a lot of variables for this situation.
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Old 2010-09-04, 8:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piakaven View Post
But if it is a bead, not a pendant, it should not "hang properly"? If I would want to use it for my seed bead bracelet, I would want it to "flip" so it will be flat on the bracelet, not hang of it. So all just depends what the buyer has in mind. I agree that there are certain requirements, no sharp edges and so on, but I dont think we should try to make beads that hang, unless we state that they do.
We were posting at the same time... that is exactly what I was trying to say, too.
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  #27  
Old 2010-09-04, 8:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
What I mean by "properly" being subjective is that I have pieces that are done button-style with a bail in the middle of the back, which I wear snug on a choker. Pieces like that, depending on their fragility, can be sewn onto bags or jackets, used as closures, and incorporated into bracelets. It's not a matter of a top bail being "right", it's just about how you plan to use the piece.
This is what I mean too... Im so glad you said it, since I cant get things out of my mouth the way they are intended.
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Old 2010-09-04, 8:06am
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I do understand what you are saying about application of the beads. It makes a difference. I guess I would put that in the description, and as you say take a picture of the back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
What I mean by "properly" being subjective is that I have pieces that are done button-style with a bail in the middle of the back, which I wear snug on a choker. Pieces like that, depending on their fragility, can be sewn onto bags or jackets, used as closures, and incorporated into bracelets. It's not a matter of a top bail being "right", it's just about how you plan to use the piece.
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  #29  
Old 2010-09-04, 8:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassactcc View Post
I do understand what you are saying about application of the beads. It makes a difference. I guess I would put that in the description, and as you say take a picture of the back.
yeppers, sounds like a good idea, especially on "untraditional" beads that wont have just hole in a middle.
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  #30  
Old 2010-09-04, 8:32am
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I'm going to have to agree with Kalera on every point she has
made so far.
And add my own two cents to this. Number one, these are beads.
To me a bead is a bead, is a bead ~
they are what they are. Second, they are made of glass
for heaven sakes. If you stress them enough, they WILL break!!
Also, whether they be spacers, focals, or whatever, this is my art. You
wouldn't ask a painter to alter one of his paintings, would you?!
Again, it is what it is, don't ask me to change it. If you are in need of
something specific, ask me if I can make a custom order for you, but don't
expect what I have already created to be altered.

Personaly, I find that insulting!!
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