Getting started

Alexis · #1 2008-10-03, 11:41am

I just finished a 6 hour bead class and looking for some info on what I need on getting started.

After reading everything, I think I'll give the Cricket a try. Beyond that I know nothing. At this time I will not be using NG. So, do I visit my local welding supply and purchase/rent a propane tank and oxygen tank plug them and and away I go? Is there a lampworking for dummies manual out there that explains everything? Thanks for any help in pointing me in the right direction.

tnehlers · #2 2008-10-03, 11:49am

You can buy a propane tank at wal-mart (waaayyy cheaper than places like Lowe's or HD). Then just get it filled. Can't help you on the oxy tank though - I use a concentrator. For my Bobcat I have the 1/4" diameter B/C hoses; I think the Cricket is the same unless you specify B fittings on the torch. Also, a propane regulator and a flashback arrestor. You'll need an oxy regulator and flashback arrestor also if you go with the tank. Frantz (www.frantzartglass.com) has the hoses, regulators, and arrestors if you want to get them there.
Hope that helps a little.

nagibeads · #3 2008-10-03, 12:03pm

here is a great book to help:

More Than You Ever Wanted To Know About Glass Beadmaking
(Soft) (BIA)
By James Kervin ..... $45.00

getting your setup up and running can be a little intimidating if you've never hooked things up before. if there is someone knowledgeable in your area that can physically check your setup, that would be ideal.
The safety forum will have some great threads to keep you safe. Remember--keep oil and teflon tape away from your O2 tank threads!

botree · #4 2008-10-03, 12:33pm

don't worry about the tape. use it where you want. there is no danger from its' use.

Bo

P.S. petroleum products and oxygen generate an explosive mix. Never mix those as nagibeads said!!

Kym · #5 2008-10-03, 3:50pm

Get a decent set of regulators and they should last you for a long time, through many torches and setups.

Kym

tt4st · #6 2008-10-03, 4:12pm

Others might not agree, but I think it would better to buy a concentrator. You have to lease oxy tanks and they only last about 6 hours and then you have to haul them to get refilled - and they are HEAVY. The lifetime lease was about $150 for each (and you need 2 if you are planning on trading them out). I switched to a concentrator within the first 6 months and now have 2 tanks sitting in my garage because they don't want them back. Kimberly (kbinkster) here on LE sells concentrators and is very knowledgeable on GTT torches and what works best. She is married to one of the GTT boys and would be a good place to start if you are interested. Just my 2 cents and hope it helps you decide what to do because it is a daunting task getting the information to set things up right the first time.

myrdlebp · #7 2008-10-03, 4:48pm

I don't know whether I should start a new thread or not. But maybe Alexis would like an answer also on this. Just what exactly is a concentrator? Thanks in advance

kbinkster · #8 2008-10-03, 6:07pm

An oxygen concentrator is a machine that seperates the oxygen out of room air.

myrdlebp · #9 2008-10-03, 6:52pm

Got it! Sorta thought that is what it did but never "heard" it out loud. So no need for oxy tanks!!! Are they spendy?

squid · #10 2008-10-03, 6:54pm

they don't have to be - if you are getting a cricket, a 5 liter per minute machine will nicely supply it. If you torch regularly, an oxycon will pay for itself in a matter of a few months over tanks.

scoutycat · #11 2008-10-03, 6:59pm

personally, I prefer my tanks. They are 40$/year lease, + 40$/fill delivered. I have a big tank, which gives me enough oxy for a month or more of regular use (10hrs/week or so). I'm on a minor, so the oxy use would likely be similar to a cricket. There is no maintenance & no replacement parts to worry about, and no disposal issues with spent units. Check around the welding & gas shops in your area to see what is available - a tank may be a good option for you.

squid · #12 2008-10-03, 7:09pm

It sounds as if you spend about $520 a year for oxygen, which is a lot compared to an oxycon that will run you less than $400 and last for a few years. Ten hours a week isn't really that much torching either really. I wanted to get tanks when I first started out, but they would not deliver into a residential neighborhood and I could not load the big tank by myself, so I nixed the tanks idea.

Alexis · #13 2008-10-03, 8:18pm

Thanks everyone for your help. Sounds like the concentrator may be the way to go. I will also need a propane regulator and a flashback arrestor for the propane tank?? Which is the same type tank I use on my BBQ grill?? or do I need to get something from a welding supply company? Just regular propane?

I would need nothing extra for the concentrator? just the hoses?

I know, I know, I am totally clueless. I'm trying to compile a, purchasing a torch set-up check list. I want to get a set-up of the needed items then slowly build up my "I want" items as I get more experience. Thanks again for your help!

myrdlebp · #14 2008-10-03, 8:44pm

OH GIRL!! I see an avalanche coming your way~!!!! Once your are "there', there is no turning back. You will upgrade that list every time you see or read something on his site!! I am in the same state of NEED EVERYTHING!!!!

Alexis · #15 2008-10-03, 9:26pm

Ssshhhh, I'm still in denial until I start the actual purchasing.

Starrr · #16 2008-10-04, 1:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexis

Thanks everyone for your help. Sounds like the concentrator may be the way to go. I will also need a propane regulator and a flashback arrestor for the propane tank?? Which is the same type tank I use on my BBQ grill?? or do I need to get something from a welding supply company? Just regular propane?

I would need nothing extra for the concentrator? just the hoses?

I know, I know, I am totally clueless. I'm trying to compile a, purchasing a torch set-up check list. I want to get a set-up of the needed items then slowly build up my "I want" items as I get more experience. Thanks again for your help!

I'll tell you what I was told when I first started, call Mike at Frantz and ask about your propane regulator and hoses, also ask about the flashback arrestor, which is not necessary with the torch you are going to use, but ask him and take his advise. Mike steered me away from several purchases that I didn't really need.

Contact Kim/Kbinkster a few posts up and purchase an oxy con, she'll tell you everything you need to know about them and won't take advantage of you. Tanks are a pain all the way around for you at this point, but you might want to add one down the road, but you're not their yet.

In my opinion a kiln is going to be your most important and expensive investment, purchase a good one and if you can afford it get one with a digital controller, makes like sooo much easier. Make sure you search the forums BEFORE you purchase a kiln to make sure you find someone who is trustworthy, you can always ask I'm sure alot of people who love their kilns can steer you in the right direction.

Now for the not so fun stuff... you are going to need good ventilation, not an open window with a fan. There is so much info on setting up the correct ventilation so take the time to search, here and on the ISGB forum, do your homework and ask questions if you don't understand something. Proper ventilation is nothing to scimp on, your health and your family and pets are important. As suggested, Jim Kervin's book is great.

I spent a good 8 months reading, researching and accumulating equipment before I even lit my torch. I had to tweak my ventilation system several times until I was happy with how it worked. That was several years ago before there was a Wet Canvas or this forum, and since then there is so much more information available that you should have no problem finding out anything you need to know.

This is not an inexpensive art, but the one good thing is that your equipment will last forever with proper care and the resale value is close to retail and sometimes more, just look in the Garge Sale.

Not everyone will agree with my point of view, but I'd rather buy the best that I can afford one time rather than have to replace or upgrade as in a kiln or ventilation system.

Good Luck!

lunamoonshadow · #17 2008-10-05, 11:16am

8 months? I think I was on the forums for 3 years before I got my hothead...*giggle*...I still haven't gotten to upgrade for torching @ home....(I

my hothead)...I torch on a mini cc whenever I get a chance to head down to rockland to Playing With Fire! studio, or over to visit Sue, & I was lucky enough to try out Pipyr's new Cricket (love the Cricket--it's an AWESOME little torch!...want one!)...but for home, for "right now", I'm still on my hothead...you can't beat it for the price (and, for the "can be run with just a BBQ tank & no oxy supply/regulators/etc).
Someday I'll be able to upgrade @ home....(oxy supply....need an oxycon)

Starr is right--the forums & READING are your best friend right now--there are no "quick" answers--head over to the safety forum & read all you can about ventilation, that's a HUGE MUST HAVE. Then decide on what you can afford to spend on "everything else" after the ventilation is taken care of. Torch/kiln/oxy supply. Then after that, the "extras". A lot of the "extras" really are just that--"extra"--and you can find them around the house--or improvised--for example--my "flame proof surface" (for under my torch) is a cookie sheet--and I know several other lampworkers who use the same, or similar things.

Stainless steel kitchen tools, glass (pyrex) bowls, etc. all can become torch-table items & glass pokey things

~luna

KarenBeth · #18 2008-10-05, 12:06pm

From what I read, the cricket works better with an oxycon as thats what it was made for. I'm still on a hot head but my best friend uses an oxycon with her minor and I love it. I don't see how she hauled that big tank to get it filled all the time. If and when I upgrade I'm definately getting an oxycon. Also you can get a used one from your local medical supply store for about $200 which defiantely pays for itself over the tank any day.

As for stuff to get started. I bought Cindy Jenkins book, Making Glass Beads and thats how I taught myself without any classes.

Hope this helps.

Rudy · #19 2008-10-07, 5:14pm

I too am primarily self-taught. LE is priceless!!! So many knowledgeable and generous people always willing to lend an ear and offer advice. I'm still pretty new, but my studio is all set up...thanks to advice received on LE. I am sooo hooked!

PROPANE TANK...got mine @ BJ's ... reasonable refills
OXYCON....I can't even imagine worrying about oxygen tanks!
VENTILATION...No short cuts....none...nada....don't do it! Your lungs and life are worthy of much care and love. It was the most time consuming part of my set-up but it was worth the wait! AND...if you are going to work with frits and enamels...make sure you purchase the appropriate mask. I can't remember the model#, but let me know if you need that and I'll go check!
KILN...I love my chilipepper
MISC SUPPLIES (pokers, marvers, etc...) buy used whenever possible, or get creative (kitchen utencils, etc....) as mentioned above.

BTW: If you need mandrels, check your local welding supply store. I purchased 3' long rods of the desired size and cut them into thirds...instant mandrels and at a fraction of the cost.

Generally speaking...check the Garage on LE. I wish I had. I went crazy buying new stuff and spent a bundle. Wish I had been more patient!!!!

Hope this helps!