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The Dark Room -- Photo Editing and Picture Taking. Advice, tutorials, questions on all things photoshop, photo editing, and taking pictures of beads or glass.

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  #1  
Old 2012-07-04, 5:19pm
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Default Need constructive critique

Have been taking pics in the light box using dif settings. Would like to post 2 photos the first right off the camera, just sized down for LE the second edited in PS. I am looking for advice/opinions as to the editing, am I on the right track or should I go back to the drawing board? the first view I did a levels adjustment and a sharpen, the second I did a auto levels and auto sharpen.
Any help advice is appreciated thanks
1a1b
2a2b
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Last edited by chrisann; 2012-07-04 at 7:39pm.
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Old 2012-07-04, 5:40pm
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I like the bottom right best, but feel like different backround would
set your pendant off better. So hard to photo glass. I have given up.
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Old 2012-07-04, 5:50pm
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The two on the right are almost identical with the last one just a tad better. I'd give it more sharpening (unsharp mask) up the contrast a bit and reduce the brightness a tad to bring out the colors more and reduce the brightness of the background.

Try the same shot, but use a black background instead and see what you think.

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Old 2012-07-04, 6:07pm
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i prefer top right with the bit of a shadow for depth

auto levels can be a bit of a trap, make sure the colours are coming out right

also, make sure you dont crop till you've done your editing, sharpness etc works best with the biggest resolution

dont use auto sharpen, use unsharp mask at about 3 i think
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Old 2012-07-04, 6:41pm
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I like the lower left because it is more "head on". The pendant is more round. Another correction I would suggest is to use a blemish remover or clone tool to remove the highlights caused by light reflecting from mark on the jump ring.

That said, I like the pendant!
Fred
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Old 2012-07-04, 7:51pm
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Thanks everyone for taking the time to look and help. To clarify 1a&2a are off the camera with no edits/adjustments just cropped and sized for LE. The 1b&2b were edited at full resolution then cropped and sized for LE.

I will shoot them again tomorrow with the suggested additions/editing and come back to see the dif.

Mike could you tell me if it would be better for me to shoot in aperture priority or fully manual? I am using a canon xsi with a 50 mm compact macro lens, in this light box. I stick the lens through the opening and use a remote shutter switch

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Old 2012-07-04, 8:20pm
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Ok here are the 2 pics after PS using the suggestions
I adjusted the levels/contrast/brightness/unsharp mask then cropped and sized for LE.....am pretty confused about the unsharp mask, will go see what I can read about it. I will re shoot it tomorrow trying a couple of dif backgrounds as well.
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Old 2012-07-04, 8:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjbremer View Post
I like the lower left because it is more "head on". The pendant is more round. Another correction I would suggest is to use a blemish remover or clone tool to remove the highlights caused by light reflecting from mark on the jump ring.

That said, I like the pendant!
Fred
Thanks Fred, it is one of my favorites.
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Old 2012-07-04, 8:30pm
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One more question before I go to sleep, would it be easier for me to post process my pics if I shot with one of the gray card things in the pic?

Thanks and g'night!
Chrisann
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Old 2012-07-05, 5:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisann View Post
I will shoot them again tomorrow with the suggested additions/editing and come back to see the dif.

Mike could you tell me if it would be better for me to shoot in aperture priority or fully manual? I am using a canon xsi with a 50 mm compact macro lens, in this light box. I stick the lens through the opening and use a remote shutter switch
When I'm shooting with fixed light (non-flash) and a tripod I like using manual so I can adjust the speed and fstop myself. This way, if the light doesn't change, I can concentrate on focus and composition and other details. I do like setting my fstop to around f16 or f18 and then adjusting the shutter speed to that. That way I get the best depth of field with minimal lens distortion. I don't go to f20 or f22 or smaller unless I really have to because this can introduce some distortion (not that noticeable to most people and highly debated among photographers, but it's a habit I've been in most of the years I've shot digital). Anything smaller than f16 really starts showing up the dust bunnies on your lens if there are any as well. Since I've always done a lot of outdoors shooting, I've always got some dust bunnies.

Also, as I mentioned, if you have a black cloth or black paper, give that a try as a background too.

Mike
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Old 2012-07-05, 6:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisann View Post
One more question before I go to sleep, would it be easier for me to post process my pics if I shot with one of the gray card things in the pic?

Thanks and g'night!
Chrisann
The gray card will help with adjusting the white balance. I use a light tent and three lights. That way my light quality is constant. When I set it up I took test pics and then adjusted them in post until they looked "right" to Ann and I. I took note of what settings gave me that "look" and just apply it to all the pictures we take.

If you can have a constant set up you really don't need the gray card. If you can't then the gray card (or one that shows black, gray, and white) will help.

You can also use a piece of white paper if you don't want to get a true gray card. It will get you close and, in the end, it comes down to personal preference. If you do use a white piece of paper use somthing like printer paper with a high brightness (over 90).

Fred
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Old 2012-07-06, 7:14am
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So here are two that I shot yesterday with the same settings just a dif background. I like the black background however I don't like how the reflection of the white interior of my light-box is more pronounced on the black background one. It is still there with the gray background just not as noticeable. these were adjusted in PS elements 8 levels adjusted and sharpened a little. the settings are f18/.8sec ISO100
I am going to play around some more today with other setups and see what I like better
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Old 2012-07-06, 8:14am
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here is one same settings but taken out of the light-box and shot with one desk lamp pointed down on it.
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Old 2012-07-06, 1:49pm
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the last two after getting a couple of daylight photo bulbs, don't like the hot spots from the bulbs but it looks pretty close to what the pendant actually looks like.
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Old 2012-07-06, 3:21pm
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For starters your white balance is all over the place. In the first set the blue cast is just plain icky. I'm viewing your images on an iMac, and the white background looks aqua.

The other thing that I notice in all of your images is that you have the light source pointed directly AT the bead. This gives an awful reflection of the light source, especially in the last two just above this post. Try using the 'edge' of the light instead of directing the source directly at the bead.

I would also crank my ISO a bit, open up my aperture to about f/4 or f/5.6 and use a very high shutter speed to cut down on camera shake. When you are photographing things up close (macro) camera shake is significantly more noticeable.
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Old 2012-07-06, 3:34pm
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Here is the diagram I told you about in the pm.
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Old 2012-07-06, 3:37pm
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Ok I will try again tomorrow, those first pics are not on a white background it was a pc of frosted acrylic with a mirror behind it. the next ones I iether used a pc of gray paper or black paper, they were all shot with a tripod and timer or remote trigger so shouldn't be getting camera shake right? thanks for looking Chris.
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Old 2012-07-06, 3:59pm
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Ok I will try to place the lights like that. thanks
chrisann
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Old 2012-07-06, 5:14pm
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Although the lights are giving you fits, the black background helps to bring the colors out and does a better job of focusing (no pun intended ) the eyes on your jewelry.

Part of the problem with your lights is that you are using too small of a light source and it's creating hot spots in the reflections. Christopher is right about skimming the light but I usually go a bit further and don't use direct light, even shooting through the sides of the light tent. What I do is use reflective light. I turn the light completely way from the object and reflect it back off of white cardboard or white poster board or large sheets of insulation panels (not these so much since they crumble after a bit and are a pain to get rid of). I still have 5 or so 4x8' white card board panels that I bought from a cardboard distributor (he sales to box making places) that I only paid a couple of dollars each for. They are white on one side and cardboard color on the other. What's nice about the size is that I can bend them into different shapes and wrap them around what I'm shooting. It makes for very directional reflective light.

What I've also used and which works very well as additional diffusion are light panels. I've made these for very cheaply from window screen kits and pvc pipe and sport nylon (like rip stop nylon but with out the zig zag stitching). Here are a couple of pictures of ones I made:




The white one hanging from the pvc frame was made from a 4x4 window screen kit. I laid nylon material on it and pushed down the rubber band like I was making a window screen and the nylon was screen material. It worked really well.

Anything like this will help diffuse your light and create a larger light source. Of course the minus side of it is you are going to lose light using something like this as well. But with a tripod and a camera that you can shoot manually with, you can increase your exposure time to compensate for it. What I also like doing is use the reflectors and diffusers to soften up the light and reduce or eliminate the highlights and then take a point light source that's just big enough to light the object from the side so that the light reflects off at a 45 degree angle from the camera lens so that the camera doesn't see the reflection of the light source. I usually use a snoot but I've also used paper towel rolls with aluminum foil on the end with a hole punched out to give me the size I need (or the roll without anything on it) or a rolled up thick paper cone with the tip cut to give me the size I need. I've also used small flashes to paint the light and a flashlight to also paint the area I wanted lit. Several years ago I got a free sample set of gels that are about 3x3" or so that were the right size to put over small flash units or flashlights.

Also, don't be afraid to try negative light. This is where you take a small black cloth in a frame (the large cross stitch type hoops are good for this if you have them or picture frames or a wire frame) to create a shadow over the glass. The shadow will help block some of the reflective highlights.

There are a lot of things that can be done... some of them very cheaply. But with everything that you can use, having a good set of lights, incandescent, florescent, flash or sunlight, is key. You can do a lot with some cheap camera flashes if you have several of them. But it's really hard to beat a good set of studio lights. Even one in the range of 160 to 320 watt seconds can make a lot of difference. Lights and practice and it looks like you are doing well with the practice, so keep it up.

Mike
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Old 2012-07-06, 7:58pm
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Will practice some more tomorrow.....thanks for all your help and suggestions
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Old 2012-07-07, 2:38pm
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so here are todays attempts I am even more going to try some more when I get the gradient background, I think there won't be as many shadows, in the second one I tried to remove the shadows using the clone tool not very good at it yet. added 2 more the first f11 1/6sec ISO800 then f8 1/8sec ISO800
the first is f4.5 1/6 sec ISO400 the second is f4.5 1/15sec ISO400

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Last edited by chrisann; 2012-07-07 at 4:22pm.
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Old 2012-07-10, 7:40pm
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You are still relying on image manipulation software to correct things that should not be there in first place... Reread what Mike says about reflecting and diffused light...

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Old 2012-07-11, 9:36am
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Quote:
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You are still relying on image manipulation software to correct things that should not be there in first place... Reread what Mike says about reflecting and diffused light...

Dale
Dale, I think I understand what he is saying but when I diffuse the light it causes the lens to look like it has a matte finish. And when I try to use a bounce card the lens picks up the white card and it still looks like a matte finish or just a reflection of the white card. Obviously I not doing something right in my gazillion attempts. One of these times the "light" will come on in my head....I hope
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Old 2012-07-13, 8:02am
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can you shoot in raw format with your camera and if so do you?
I recently swtiched to raw format and while it takes a bit more time on the edit side the final results are much better than when shooting in jpeg plus there is no loss.
you can get good lighting results using a photo tent outdoors as well that way you have your large diffuse light.
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Old 2012-07-13, 10:23am
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Morgan, Yes I can shoot in raw but I can't do any on camera processing I would need to put a program on the computer to do it. Right now I am just feeling to overwhelmed with it, seems no matter what I do I can't get something that looks good without hot spots on it or the matte look on the clear lens from the reflection of the white tent sides. I may try a bigger tent and set it outside but it is freaking HOT here so I really don't know if that is a viable solution either. this is what I ended up with today, the first is in my light box the second is out of the light box with 2 photo lights (with home made diffusers on them). still have the hot spots on them more on the out of the box one,but the color is right on. the one in the light box still has the kinda matte look to it. which looks better to you?
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Old 2012-07-13, 1:19pm
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Yes that is how RAW works, the camera does not alter the photo in any way.
I do understand, Photography has been a passion of mine since I was a boy,I have been shooting digital SLR's for many years and I only just converted to RAW a few months ago.
I was concerend about the extra steps and for my landscape and wild life photos I was happy enought with letting the camera do the processing. however in this struggle to get perfect glass shots the camera was just not getting the white balance,sharpness ect correct.
So I took the plunge and switched to RAW, what I found was that PSE opened up a completley different raw editor with slide adjustments I actually find it easier to use this editor then when the photo looks the way you want it will drop it into the regular edit pane so you can crop, spot remove,ect. one of the great things in the raw editor is the ablity to easily change white balance, exposure an fill lighting. I have found this is helping me tremedously with lighting glass objects.
other than the light refection I prefer the one on the left it POPS off the back ground nicely
what I have done with our photo cube it to surround it with ott lights but to back them off from the sides and tops I also place white translucent foam between the lights and the tent this had helped softent the hot spots on my pics however I do find I did need to add more lighting when I moved them farther away.
Here is one of my more recent photos as you can see there are some hotspots, I am still working on getting the best image, which is why I am taking to photography class at the gathering it is amazing how tricky this is lol
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Old 2012-07-13, 1:55pm
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Chrisann, the reason you are seeing a duller mat finish is low contrast. Try increasing the contrast on the first image. It looks like you are only using one light also. If you add a second light you can put both of them at a 45 degree angle from your camera lens. On flat reflective surfaces this will cause the reflective hotspot to bounce past your lens so you don't see it... Just like a blind spot in your car mirror when someone isn't in your reflected line of sight, you can't see them. With round or domed glass it's a bit harder to find the angle that reflects the highlights past your lens. Also, you could try putting a light underneath it. I've shot on a plexiglass sheet and put a light underneath with a snoot or cardboard with a hole cut in it so that the light is just big enough to hit the bottom of the object without shinning around it. With some things, glass in particular, this can really light up the colors inside. It doesn't need to be a bright light either but it depends on how opac the glass is.

Also, shooting in raw would not really gain you an advantage with the way you are shooting. Your jpegs have plenty of information to be able to do color, contrast and level adjustments to. And you are doing pretty good with your colors when you hit them with the light, so keep working at it, you will get there.

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