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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2008-02-17, 4:27pm
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Default Difference between Vetrofond vs. Moretti

I'm new and have only used Moretti...which I like. What's the difference between these two. I assume that they are compatible, but are there any noteworthy differences?

I want to take advantage of the advertised Vetrofond sale, but want to somewhat sure that it will work for me.
Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 2008-02-17, 4:32pm
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there are differences in the colors, but it really is a difference color to color. I always liked the vetro ivories more than the effetre. I really liked the vetro transparent colors, especially in the blues and topaz color families. Loved the vetro clear and white. really depends on which colors you are looking at however.
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  #3  
Old 2008-02-17, 4:34pm
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They're all interchangeable in terms of compatibility.
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  #4  
Old 2008-02-17, 4:59pm
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The people who own the Vetrofond factory are family members of the ones who own the Effetre (Moretti) factory. The formulas used to manufacture the glass are the same. As far as differences?

Vetrofond has a crystal clear formula that Effetre does not have.
The light ivory is lighter, the dark ivory is darker.
Effetre has a line of handpulled colors that Vetrofond does not have (like the silver plums).
The people at Vetrofond are actively working with Mike Frantz to produce odd lot colors.
There are fewer odd lots coming out of the Effetre factory, they're more like happy accidents.

As far as working with both glasses, you can mix all the colors. Just don't mix opalinos with anything but opalinos (there are some exceptions, but you'll need to learn them), don't mix alabasters with anything but alabasters. The filligranas are not always compatible with the regular line. You can mix and match all the pastels, transparents and special colors, with a few exceptions...like the dark lapis doesn't like to be encased.
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  #5  
Old 2008-02-17, 5:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckie View Post
The formulas used to manufacture the glass are the same.
I have gotten too many colors from vetro that are very different in shade from the effetre of the same name and number for this to be an absolute truism. a couple of examples. the vetro 014 I have is almost as dark as the effetre 016 and has a distinct red tone to it. The vetro 054 I have is darker than the effetre 056. very very noticable and obvious differences in both cases from any of the colors in the effetre line.

added: thats also why I went to buying the same color numbers from both companies just to find the different colors. found color differences in about half the colors in each order.

Last edited by Rob; 2008-02-17 at 5:08pm. Reason: to add.
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  #6  
Old 2008-02-17, 5:14pm
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Thanks to all who responded. I think I'll try some. I'll keep your advice about keeping opalinos w/ opalinos and so forth. I'll also try to keep the differences in color in mind.

Muchas gracias!
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  #7  
Old 2008-02-17, 5:29pm
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Well...the colors are similar.

But....I really hate vetrofond black. It boils into bubbles and then leaves pits and sorta fuzzes a silver sheen scum. Ick!!

Very frustrating. I finally pulled it all out and set it aside as "crap" glass for the centers of big focals or something.

~NancyB
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  #8  
Old 2008-02-17, 5:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrakerBeads View Post
Well...the colors are similar.

But....I really hate vetrofond black. It boils into bubbles and then leaves pits and sorta fuzzes a silver sheen scum. Ick!!

Very frustrating. I finally pulled it all out and set it aside as "crap" glass for the centers of big focals or something.

~NancyB

Really? Thats what my effetre black is like. hate the stuff. it boils and pits doesn't get a silver sheen. bu8t man is it a mess otherwise. My vetro melts smooth as butter and behaves its self every time. wonder what we are each doing thats different with them.
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  #9  
Old 2008-02-17, 5:39pm
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Now I can't believe none of y'all have noticed. Maybe I'm just crazy or is Vetrofond dark sky blue a beautiful colour!!!! I always found moretti dark sky blue and dark tuquiose to be identical but vetrofond dark turq and dark sky blue are different!

I am treasuring my rod of vet dark sky blue till I can afford to buy more glass!
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  #10  
Old 2008-02-17, 5:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
I have gotten too many colors from vetro that are very different in shade from the effetre of the same name and number for this to be an absolute truism.
The formulas are the same. What's different is Vetrofond's kilns are newer and have less residual contamination in them. More importantly, the ingredients, especially the colorants will differ from supplier to supplier and batch to batch according to the source location. Manganese dug up in Asia will differ slightly on a chemical level from manganese dug up in South America. If you know anything about the quality of gemstones, they differ in color and quality from country to country. The same goes for the sand, soda, limestone and every other ingredient used to manufacture glass.


Quote:
thats also why I went to buying the same color numbers from both companies just to find the different colors. found color differences in about half the colors in each order.
If buy those colors in Effetre and you wait one year and buy the same colors, you'll find the same differences. You probably don't even have to wait a whole year. I buy glass all the time that differs from batch to batch. I have four different variations of Effetre ink blue, all bought from different suppliers in different years. Again, most of it is contributed to the source location of the ingredients. But environmental factors can also change the colors from batch to batch. Another thing that can affect the final color is the color of the glass batch that was melted in the kilns just prior to the one being manufactured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leanne View Post
I always found moretti dark sky blue and dark tuquiose to be identical but vetrofond dark turq and dark sky blue are different!
Yes, I have trouble identifying the two different Effetre colors when I get them mixed up on my worktable, too.

Last edited by Chuckie; 2008-02-17 at 6:01pm.
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  #11  
Old 2008-02-17, 6:14pm
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Great enlightment, Chuckie, thanks!
Now I know why I will never find that beautiful Green Grass-like green; I've been buying both Dark and Light (016 & 01 pastel from both brands and nothing would match that precious little bit of a rod that I have left... and I know it's Italian glass, not CIM or Lauscha or anything...
It can be frustrating, but it's also the beauty of the game!
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  #12  
Old 2008-02-17, 6:23pm
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Another possible source for a compatible grass green would be www.checkglass.com. They have some lovely colors not available in the Effetre and Vetrofond line. Most of the colors are compatible with the 104 Italian glasses, but there are a few that do not like to play well with other colors.

Lauscha Kermit Green available through www.glassdaddy.com is another option for a variation of pea green.
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  #13  
Old 2008-02-17, 6:24pm
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All you have to do to see the "difference" in a color is order some coral--that changes with every single batch effetre/moretti makes
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  #14  
Old 2008-02-17, 6:27pm
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LOL! I think all they have to do is breath on that stuff as it's being mixed and it changes the color!
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  #15  
Old 2008-02-17, 6:34pm
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ok so what turquoise would you say has the most reactions in it? or are they both the same?
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  #16  
Old 2008-02-17, 11:28pm
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Default Effetre Verses Vetrofond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckie View Post
The people who own the Vetrofond factory are family members of the ones who own the Effetre (Moretti) factory.* The formulas used to manufacture the glass are the same.* As far as differences?Vetrofond has a crystal clear formula that Effetre does not have.The light ivory is lighter, the dark ivory is darker.Effetre has a line of handpulled colors that Vetrofond does not have (like the silver plums).The people at Vetrofond are actively working with Mike Frantz to produce odd lot colors.There are fewer odd lots coming out of the Effetre factory, they're more like happy accidents.As far as working with both glasses, you can mix all the colors.* Just don't mix opalinos with anything but opalinos (there are some exceptions, but you'll need to learn them), don't mix alabasters with anything but alabasters.* The filligranas are not always compatible with the regular line.* You can mix and match all the pastels, transparents and special colors, with a few exceptions...like the dark lapis doesn't like to be encased.
I would like to make a correction here on LE.* I will do it in a Mikey way.* Effetre was once named Moretti and it operated for a very long time and then sometime in the 1980's they ran into some financial problems (which does not need to be talked about here) and was sold to Asiro.* Asiro continued to make great color, but they fell far behind in production. I remember not being able to get enough millefiori for my customers.* And then Effetre came along and has been operating for many years and you should see their inventory of Millefiori!* But with over 700 styles of millefiori and in about nine differfent sizes and then cut and in cane, it makes for a big inventory and they have never had every possible one available at the same time.When I first went to buy directly from the factory I was introduced to a manager named Fausto.* Sometime later I received a fax from him and found out that he had left the company and went to work for Vetrofond.* Moretti is a common name in Italy, but there is not connection between the two companies.* Fausto send me a price list which was a photo copy of the Effetre/Moretti catalog (I call it that name as I can not remember who owned it at thatg time)* He sent me samples of the glass, but they looked more like floor sweepings.* Different diameters, different lengths and all rattling about in a box without much packing.* I was not impressed and ignored their glass.I had come to Italy the first time in 1992 and was introduced to Nicole who worked in a glass shop near St. Marks Square.* We finished our business and went back to America.* A few years later Pat and myself were back in Murano and as we walked by a glass gallery, in the window working on a display was Nicole again and our friendship continued.She introduced us to Luigi (whose apartments we now stay in every time we are in Murano).* Finally Luigi told us that Vetrofond would really like to sell us glass, and all I could think of was the bad samples and I just ignored Vetrofond.* This went on for years.* Then one day I got a call from a friend on Murano who told me that Craig from Arrow Springs was over on Murano and was being told by another beadmaker to go to Vetrofond as they made nice clear and they did not sell much glass in the U.S.A.* The story I got was since Vetrofond is on the mainland, it was a bit more difficult for Craig to find it and he settled for Effetre.* Upon hearing that I was on a plane within five days and I had my first meeting with Vetrofond and our business relationship with both Vetrofond and Effetre has grown.Vetrofond main business was making lampshades and artistic glass of very high end and with the help of Fausto was trying to duplicate Effetre's pallete.* Many of Vetrofond's colors are similiar to Effetres, but they are different and some are totally different and the machinery is different.* Some people hate Vetrofond black others hate Effetre black.* Sometimes I hate one of their colors and the next time I love the color.* I feel that having two companies producing the same colors actually makes for more than a duplication of colors since their tends to be slightly different tonalities within the same colors.You see that the prices of Vetrofond is less than Effetre.* I feel that some of that is due to the fact that Effetre is on the island of Murano where property prices are extremly high and Vetrofond is on the mainland where prices are less.* There are other reasons, but who cares, we just want new color.Then a time back we visited Effetre and were able to have them make the handpulled colors.* My visits with Vetrofond allowed me to select colors that they thought were mistakes, but they were gold to us.* Before the Americans started making beads back in 1987, most glass produced by Effetre went to people making production glass and they wanted the greens to be the same greens that they have always used and a green that was too light or too dark or if it had sparkle or streaks was bad, but to us, it was great.* Most beads and art work had to match what was in the customers catalog.* Now beadmakers want what is different, no catalogs, one-of-a-kind colors.In the beginning I could buy the odd stuff for less than normal production, but as time changed and I did not hide the facts, I would tell them that I could pay more for strange, odd and unique colors.* Soon Vetrofond began to try to produce these new ODD colors.Well, if it works for one company, it might work for another company.So now Effetre is making "Effetre Cool Colors"* While I am in Murano they will produce about 20 new colors.* Each color will be produced as a one-of-a-kind in small batches of 1,000 pounds.They start by making a very small sample to see if the composition works and then produced about 200 pounds.* I will be allowed to test it and if we do not like it, we still buy it, but they will not make the next 800 to 1000 pounds.* If we like it then they produce it and move on to another color on another day.By the time I am ready to return to Shelton, I will have seen twenty new colors from Effetre and I will probably see a good amount of new color from Vetrofond.Of course if I get 30 new colors on this trip I think my head will spin right off my neck.I have worked very hard along the side of Effetre to not only get them to produce these new COOL COLORS, but to get them as an excluisve for Frantz Art Glass.Now you know a bit more about the difference between Effetre and Vetrofond.* The owner of Vetrofond is Mr. Moretti and there is no connection between Mr. Moretti and the old Moretti Glass company.Now, just one more thing.* I am having a meeting today with my General Manager Tim who is now in Murano with me and I want to have a sale on Vetrofond Glass.* This morning we will work out the details and I am sure you will end up seeing the best prices on Vetrofond very shortly and this sale will last a few days.In regards to the new Effetre Cool Colors, they are still a good month away from being shipped to Shelton.* I do expect to send some by air and to make up assortment samples for our customers to try and then give them a chance to preorder as 1,000 pounds can go quickly.And while the color of the day club seems very fun and interesting, I have seen how color of the month club can get you in all kinds of trouble, so no prepaying to be a member.* As the glass arrives, and I plan on not waiting til it is all ready then ship, but to send smaller shipments so every few weeks there are now colors seems the way to go.I just want to say thank you for everyone who buys glass from us directly or from one of our distributors.* You have given me something to do and it is fun and I expect to do it for years to come.SincerelyMikey FrantzPS, I am not going to preview it, if I made mistakes, oh what the heck.* This is not English 101, this is beadmaking 101 and it is fun.
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  #17  
Old 2008-02-17, 11:30pm
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Ok, when I wrote that last story about my travels, I did it in Word then copied and pasted on LE, and I thought that was the reason it was all combined.* But this time I did all my typing on LE, make paragraphs but now I still have my **** and one big paragraph.* If you know what is going on, please post it so I can keep you all from going crazy trying to follow my story.Thanksmikey
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  #18  
Old 2008-02-17, 11:37pm
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holy crap mike that's a long story! Off to read.......
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Old 2008-02-17, 11:45pm
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Thanks for the thorough explanation! You know, Mike, I got used to reading your run-on post! lol!
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Old 2008-02-18, 1:24am
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I'm having cross eyes, Mike. Twice... make sure I don't skip lines
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Old 2008-02-18, 1:55am
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Is seafoam green ever going to be produced again?
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Old 2008-02-18, 1:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flonche View Post
Great enlightment, Chuckie, thanks!
Now I know why I will never find that beautiful Green Grass-like green; I've been buying both Dark and Light (016 & 01 pastel from both brands and nothing would match that precious little bit of a rod that I have left... and I know it's Italian glass, not CIM or Lauscha or anything...
It can be frustrating, but it's also the beauty of the game!
Ha, I have about 5 pounds of various shades of yellow trying to replace a really "clean" shade of yellow I bought a couple of years ago.
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Old 2008-02-18, 2:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrakerBeads View Post
Well...the colors are similar.

But....I really hate vetrofond black. It boils into bubbles and then leaves pits and sorta fuzzes a silver sheen scum. Ick!!

Very frustrating. I finally pulled it all out and set it aside as "crap" glass for the centers of big focals or something.

~NancyB
It depends on the batches. Sometimes Effetre black does the same thing and sometimes Vetrofond black doesn't do it.
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  #24  
Old 2008-02-18, 3:08am
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I cannot wait for all of those new colors! Thanks Mike.
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  #25  
Old 2008-02-18, 5:25am
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I would love to see a seafoam green again. That color was gorgeous!

There was one other one...an ocean blue (that may have been the name?) color that looked kind of alabastro in color. I wouldn't mind seeing something similar to that one, either.

Thanks for the explanation, Mike! I hear my credit card screaming at the moment...

-Amy
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Old 2008-02-18, 7:41am
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Mike, did my sample beads made with the new odds make it to you in time?
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Old 2008-02-18, 8:52am
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Whew...that was hard to read...but thanks for coming in and explaining. I was under the impression the Effetre factory was still owned by another branch of the same family. I'll be able to tell the story the right way now. Thanks Mike!

So does that mean the basic glass formula is the same and that they've tweaked a few formulas (like the clear) to create a cleaner transparent? And since the equipment is different, does the processing affect the final color?

It would be so neat to go over there and see it being made! Darn, I should have bought my new odds myself instead of hitchhiking my last two purchases with my friends to save a little on shipping! Then my name would have been in that drawing for the trip! Silly me...
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