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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2012-08-02, 8:39am
Roshini Roshini is offline
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Default Glass anhealing

Hi! I'm new to glass working and am completely hooked 'in theory'. But I know most of what I know from the internet and books. I want to do medium to large sized works in glass at least 6" in size though it can be made up of thin walled members. Problem is I can barely afford all the glass working equipment I need and I was hoping I could buy a kiln after a while. So my question is, how essential is anhealing and are there any alternatives to a kiln for anhealing such as flame anhealing and vermiculite.. especially in the case of larger pieces. I've done a search on Lampwork Etc. on 'anhealing' and strangely there are no posts on this topic... I thought by using borosilicate glass I could escape the need for a kiln. Any suggestions?
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  #2  
Old 2012-08-02, 8:43am
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cheng076 cheng076 is offline
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There is very little you can do other than anneal the piece. If you develop the skill it is possible to make soft glass pieces by the 'construction method' such as a lot of the Italian masters use. Very few people outside Italy do it or are capable of doing it though. Boro is a bit more forgiving and pieces made of thin(er) section or parts can suurvive with flame anealing the parts. But really nothing insures the integrety of a piece like a good proper annealing.
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  #3  
Old 2012-08-02, 9:09am
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i'm not sure how you're searching but there are tons of threads on annealing - its one of the favourite subjects (together with "what is the best clear" ) around here
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  #4  
Old 2012-08-02, 9:23am
Roshini Roshini is offline
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Maybe.. Just Maybe... I spelt 'annealing' wrong!
But I was hoping it was a non issues and so no one was interested in talking about it! Let me check again.
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  #5  
Old 2012-08-02, 9:33am
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If you can't find enough information for your needs on here with the new search, send me a private message, and I'd be happy to help you make sense of it. Annealing is very important and can't really be avoided for a strong product. You can use vermiculite to slow down the cooling process enough so you don't get immediate cracks, but you still need to run it through an annealing cycle later to prevent future cracking.
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  #6  
Old 2012-08-02, 10:23am
Roshini Roshini is offline
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Is it possible to flame anneal an article immediately after making it, put it in vermiculite and then a week later take it to a kiln to be annealed? My own bright idea would be to put the vermiculite in a metal vessel over a hot plate to increase it's temperature and reduce the thermal shock to the article... And as mentioned earlier I had bigger glass articles in mind.
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  #7  
Old 2012-08-02, 10:33am
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You can anneal things at a later date if you cool them slowly enough, yes. Lots of people do what's called "batch annealing" when just starting out.

Annealing is essential because it removes stress points in the glass from the inside out- even the ones you can't see with the naked eye.
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  #8  
Old 2012-08-02, 10:38am
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Six inch pieces? I recommend a kiln to begin with. The problems associated with letting pieces that size cool without the controlled environment of a kiln? I think you're asking for a lot of cracking and that would be very discouraging.

Just my thoughts and worth what you paid for them.

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  #9  
Old 2012-08-02, 10:40am
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Yes, we refer to the process as batch annealing. Different kinds of glass have different success rates with this. Larger soft glass pieces can be difficult to cool down slowly enough without a kiln, while larger boro glass pieces can handle it better.

What type of glass are you using or plan to use?

Do you have a friend or a local studio you could take the pieces into and share their kiln for batch annealing? Many studios will rent kiln space.
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  #10  
Old 2012-08-02, 11:08am
Roshini Roshini is offline
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[quote=PittsGlass;4070477] Larger soft glass pieces can be difficult to cool down slowly enough without a kiln, while larger boro glass pieces can handle it better.
QUOTE]
I plan to use Boro only to postpone having to buy a kiln for a while.
Thanks folks for all the feedback so far!
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  #11  
Old 2012-08-02, 1:06pm
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boro is a lot more forgiving than soft glass, i found i coulnt batch anneal anything bigger than about 3/4" and even then it was iffy, boro however is a whole nother story

you might want to go ask advice in the boro room (go over to the dark side )
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  #12  
Old 2012-08-02, 9:30pm
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Will do that Deb!
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  #13  
Old 2013-04-23, 11:31am
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Post issues with annhealing

Every now and then I will have a period where I lose almost all my items to cracking. For example, larger hollow pieces, and beads that are 3-4 inches long will be fine. Smaller beads that are a 1 1/2 inches or smaller will crack. It doesn't seem to matter if they are twisted, rod shaped, or flattened...
They are all in the kiln at the same time. I don't typically use glass that I know have compatibility issues, I flame annheal before putting in the kiln, I try not to make items too thin in reference to the mandrel size. I have adjusted the soaking time to 2 hours, and tryed adjusting my bead release since most of the cracking will be in the center of the bead. At one point I was wondering if the element on one side was faulty, but I proved (I think) that theory wrong.
I typically use CIM, Vetrfond, and some Effetre or Double Helix.
I would appreciate any suggestions since this is part of my livilihood and can't really afford the loss of time and product.
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  #14  
Old 2013-04-23, 11:37am
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Try keeping a better heat base in your piece, hot glass doesn't crack. It's a hard thing to learn, especially when you need to concentrate on what you are dong at the moment, but work for a few seconds then reheat the entire piece, work, reheat, work reheat...
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  #15  
Old 2013-04-23, 12:20pm
bluebungalow bluebungalow is offline
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Hmmm, I wonder if I am making the small pieces too fast. Maybe I need to slow down to ensure I keep the heat base. I know I make an effort to on the larger pieces.
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  #16  
Old 2013-04-23, 12:23pm
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Borosilicate MUST be annealed. There is no way around that. This is a very basic question that you should answer through researching the material you choose thoroughly before attempting the work you are describing. Learn to crawl and walk before doing any marathon running.
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  #17  
Old 2013-04-23, 12:34pm
bluebungalow bluebungalow is offline
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Not sure if the last reply was specifically directed to me, maybe I posted in the wrong forum. I am not working with boro but 104 and I have been doing lampworking for 3 years now. Since learning is a life long process, I thought forums were for asking questions and sharing ideas, and not to be condesended on.
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  #18  
Old 2013-04-23, 12:47pm
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You are placing your pieces in the hot kiln as you make them correct?
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  #19  
Old 2013-04-23, 12:53pm
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If you can borrow Bandhu Scott Dunham's books, there is a whole section on annealing info.
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  #20  
Old 2013-04-23, 12:55pm
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bluebungalow: Although the most likely cause of cracking is letting the glass get too cool too quick or cool then hit with the flame, another issue can be glass incompatibility. Sometimes different glass, even though listed as the same COE, are not compatible and crack easily when mixed together in a bead. That could account for some of your issues. I think this is more prevalent in the soft glass than boro.
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  #21  
Old 2013-04-23, 12:56pm
bluebungalow bluebungalow is offline
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Yes, I flame annheal and wait a few seconds for the glow to be gone before putting in the kiln. The kiln is set at 955. I soak for 2 hours and then I do a 50* slow ramp down to 700. Let it sit for a few and then slowly ramp down. Could it be the actual batch of glass?
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  #22  
Old 2013-04-23, 12:59pm
bluebungalow bluebungalow is offline
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I am trying to get ahold of one of his books, and I saw that contemporary lamp working is suppose to be a good source also.
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  #23  
Old 2013-04-23, 2:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebungalow View Post
Yes, I flame annheal and wait a few seconds for the glow to be gone before putting in the kiln. The kiln is set at 955. I soak for 2 hours and then I do a 50* slow ramp down to 700. Let it sit for a few and then slowly ramp down. Could it be the actual batch of glass?
It's possible; what glasses are you using (company & color)?

Alli
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  #24  
Old 2013-04-23, 6:08pm
bluebungalow bluebungalow is offline
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The glass I seem to be having the most issues with is a box from a friend consisting mainly have CIM and Efftre. Clear, whites, and topaz, and red are the top crackers, yet i have made plenty of beads with these colors and not had an issue. I know compatibility issues can occur within the same brand, and colors or batches I have problems with I put aside so I don't waste time with them. I will have no issues with cracking for several months, and then have several days where I will lose pretty much everything in the kin. That is why I initially suspected the kiln.
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  #25  
Old 2013-04-23, 9:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebungalow View Post
Not sure if the last reply was specifically directed to me, maybe I posted in the wrong forum. I am not working with boro but 104 and I have been doing lampworking for 3 years now. Since learning is a life long process, I thought forums were for asking questions and sharing ideas, and not to be condesended on.
sorry. it was directed at roshini who asked if she could avoid annealing by using boro.
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  #26  
Old 2013-04-24, 3:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebungalow View Post
Yes, I flame annheal and wait a few seconds for the glow to be gone before putting in the kiln. The kiln is set at 955. I soak for 2 hours and then I do a 50* slow ramp down to 700. Let it sit for a few and then slowly ramp down. Could it be the actual batch of glass?
I don't think it is your soak time. It could be your ramp down to 700. Try a slower ramp down and a target of 725 and hold a 725 for about a half an hour. Other than that I don't have much more in the way of suggestions. It could be that the glass is too thin along the mandrel, are the cracks along the mandrel or do they follow the layers of glass?
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