Being a slob catches up with me, Boro color help please!!

Gail Joseph · #1 2005-09-12, 8:34am

Why oh why oh why do I have to be such a SLOB????????? (okay, I know I rationalize it because I have a chronic illness...but let's face it, I've always been a slob). Wait, I've never been DIRTY, just cluttery (my little disclaimer). There was about a 1 year period when I didn't sleep, didn't eat (lost 40 lbs), and spent all my time throwing out crap, neatening, organizing......but that was when ex-dh left me (so I don't recommend that technique).

So, why the gripe? I finally decided it was time to play with boro again, and try to get something other than mud. I had purchased one of the first of Lori Robbins' books...even got a great bead along with it. But can I find it? Noooooooooooooooooooo. CRAP, CRAP, double CRAP!

I have Doug Remshneider (sp?)'s book and video, but have not been remarkably successful with it (but I can find it!), and really was looking forward to this. I got my second child (and hardest) off to college on Friday, and was picturing a life without stress, with just my 8th grader still at home.

Waaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Anyone want to give me some tried and true boro recipes? (i.e., what color, annealing time and temp)? Pleeeeease? Pretty please? With sugar on top????

I just love the bathroom!!!

Rhapsody Fire Beads · #2 2005-09-12, 8:54am

Hi Gail! Isn't that the book you shoved up that cheating cardiologist's rear end on his way out of the door? Might look there.

~Suzy~

Gail Joseph · #3 2005-09-12, 8:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhapsody Fire Beads

Hi Gail! Isn't that the book you shoved up that cheating cardiologist's rear end on his way out of the door? Might look there.

~Suzy~

BWAhahahhahhhhhh....I am SOOOOO laughing out loud!!! Actually, tears are now flowing I'm laughing so hard!!!

IF-Designs · #4 2005-09-12, 9:08am

Mystery Aadventurine base with aurora frit on top encased with clear either diaganol or dot encase....

annealing is 1050 for 30 min then down to 975 or so and hold it there for due time depepndng on size of piece then normal slow ramp down time

IF-Designs · #5 2005-09-12, 9:08am

if I think of some others ill let you know...what colors and frits do you have?

Julz · #6 2005-09-12, 9:09am

I have a list of colors, temps, flash and cool periods from the boro suppliers that I can put together for you. I used to work at a glass crafting warehouse and did the prep on most of the glass rods that came in. Most come with a nice tag with good info on it, but never was that info included with the saleable package, so I kept it for my own records. I'll share it with you. There is nothing in it about boro technique, just color, working temp, how long to cool, then flash to what temp to get the 'desired effect'.

Let me know,
Julz

PS: I sympathize with your original post- unfortunately all of us in our house live as slobs, no matter how highly ordered our brains really are. I so wish my life was perfect... and neat and clean, and that by throwing stuff out I could actually lose 40 or 50 pounds... what a dream come true!

Rhapsody Fire Beads · #7 2005-09-12, 9:10am

Gail, want me to move this to the tech forum, so it doesn't fade away at the bewitching hour?

~Suzy~

IF-Designs · #8 2005-09-12, 9:11am

know fun one to play with is Purple Luster or double amber purple...make a clear base put the color of that and then dot encase or stripe encase it and you get some neat colors out of it where tis encased and not encased.

Gail Joseph · #9 2005-09-12, 9:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julz

I have a list of colors, temps, flash and cool periods from the boro suppliers that I can put together for you. I used to work at a glass crafting warehouse and did the prep on most of the glass rods that came in. Most come with a nice tag with good info on it, but never was that info included with the saleable package, so I kept it for my own records. I'll share it with you. There is nothing in it about boro technique, just color, working temp, how long to cool, then flash to what temp to get the 'desired effect'.

Let me know,
Julz

PS: I sympathize with your original post- unfortunately all of us in our house live as slobs, no matter how highly ordered our brains really are. I so wish my life was perfect... and neat and clean, and that by throwing stuff out I could actually lose 40 or 50 pounds... what a dream come true!

Thanks Julz and Karin! I have a ton of GA, and a bit less Northstar. ONly a few frits, but I can make it (I have the heavy duty frit masher, which I think would work with boro...but maybe not)

I just found a big bunch of Disco sparkle? NO memory of buying that! I have the "normal" crayon colors, Amber purple, DAP, purple luster, a lot of the blues and greens, carnivals (?) and I have a Momka's sample pack somewhere and also a Northstar sample pack. Any sympathy instructions are welcome (I have no shame). Well, I do, but it isn't stopping me!!!

Gail Joseph · #10 2005-09-12, 9:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhapsody Fire Beads

Gail, want me to move this to the tech forum, so it doesn't fade away at the bewitching hour?

~Suzy~

Okee dokee! Like I said, I have no shame!

Gail Joseph · #11 2005-09-12, 9:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IF-Designs

know fun one to play with is Purple Luster or double amber purple...make a clear base put the color of that and then dot encase or stripe encase it and you get some neat colors out of it where tis encased and not encased.

Does annealing length of time and temp affect the colors with these? I obviously have done something badly wrong in the past.

In general, I've been striking (or so I thought)...looking for crystal growth...think I've got something, then when done in the kiln, have poop. Kind of hard to make a set if you can't be sure that there is a chance of success!!!

Rhapsody Fire Beads · #12 2005-09-12, 9:21am

O.K., I moved this Gail, so you can get more colors & help past midnight!
~Suzy~

IF-Designs · #13 2005-09-12, 9:22am

yes the 1050 for 30 minutes will strike color depending on temp and length of time will depend on what colors strike and how deep they strike. do they look good going into the kiln? if so you may just want to keep flame striking thme like your doing and NOT taking them up to 1050 for 30 mintues it might be OVER striking your stuff since you are flame striking. You could take it up to 980 and start a hold there for your anealing and ramp down slowly much hotter and youll start strking again.

IF-Designs · #14 2005-09-12, 9:25am

You could try the basics just pull some colors out and make base beads out of them and encase htem...strike them in the flame and dont do the kiln striking....that might be easier for you when your beginning. If the color is weak adn not quite what you want you cna run a striking cycle later

or pick some colors and roll them in one color of frit and encase them differntly like dot / stripe/ total encasing.

MikeAurelius · #15 2005-09-12, 9:45am

Be cautious with the disco sparkle -- it has to be pre-heated in your kiln (per GA's suggestions) so it doesn't shatter. It will also emit a lot of sulphur if you overheat it.

My favorite is 768 Triple Passion. Use it as frit over just about anything. Stripe it on clear and twist it out into a cane. Alternate your stripes with Ruby Strike 4, and cover in Yellow and pull into cane.

Gail Joseph · #16 2005-09-12, 11:20am

You guys are SO nice! But now I'm more confused.... I thought boro had to be annealed at around 1050, whether I'm kiln striking or not????

Should I garage in the upper 900 degrees, then ramp up to 1050 for the anneal time (whatever that is) and then back down? I refuse to give up!!!! When I started lampworking it was with boro in mind....and my teacher wouldn't even tell me how boro was different than soft glass...just that she'd tell me how to use it (she never did). I'm going to master this demon!!!

--Gail

IF-Designs · #17 2005-09-12, 11:24am

striking occurs at those higher temps...the annealing temp is around 970-980 annealign for soft glass is in the 700's

IF-Designs · #18 2005-09-12, 11:25am

I garage around 960 run it up to 980 to anneal if II want to KILN STRIKE colors I run the temp up to 1050 to 1100 depends on color and time im leaving them soak....these temps are ONLY TO STRIKE

Annealing for boro occures in the upper 900's

hope that helps.

MikeAurelius · #19 2005-09-12, 12:08pm

nononono!!!!

Boro anneals at 1050..stikes at about 1100 to 1150 (depends on who you talk to and what color you are working).

Effetre/Moretti anneals at 968.

Here's a boro annealing cycle, assuming garaging (to load kiln with hot beads) at 975F:

Last bead in - soak at 975 for 30 minutes to equalize the last bead.

Ramp to 1050 over 30 minutes
Hold for 1 hour 30 minutes
Ramp down to 950 (strain point) over 2 hours
Hold 950 for 10 minutes
Ramp to ambient (room temperature) over 3-4 hours.

To run a color strike cycle:

Hold at 975 for 30 minutes to equalize the last bead
Ramp to 1150 over 10 minutes
Hold 1150 for 15 minutes
Ramp to 1050 over 15 minutes
Hold 1050 for 1 hour 30 minutes
Ramp to 950 over 2 hours
Hold 950 for 10 minutes
Ramp to ambient (room temperature) over 3-4 hours

Juliac · #20 2005-09-12, 12:23pm

Hey Julz, would you share that with all of us? I would love it. Thanks everyone else for all the tips and tricks!

Dale M. · #21 2005-09-12, 12:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IF-Designs

striking occurs at those higher temps...the annealing temp is around 970-980 annealign for soft glass is in the 700's

Annelaing temps for soft glass (Moretti/Effetre) is 968f... always has been...

Dale

IF-Designs · #22 2005-09-12, 1:13pm

dale the fracture point the give point is in the 700's people garage in the 900's and start from there but I was always told its in the 700's is where soft glass' stress points are. This is what I have always been told and when annealing was discussed the 700 range for soft glass is always the stress point in which you need to make sure you cool very very slowly.

IF-Designs · #23 2005-09-12, 1:16pm

Well then people need to get their shit together in the books because one of the recipe books I got calls for me to hold everything for striking at 1050 for between 25-30 minutes. I always get fairly decent colors so I would like to know why the misinformation in several areas? Also many of the color recipes call for you to ramp up to 1050 and hold for 30 minutes then start your annealing cycle? isnt that a lil silly? if its not even striking color? Why are these things printed in books as references and what not if its not so if it is not correct? This is actually starting to make me a lil pissed off. I buy books and articles for the information and I expect it to be correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeAurelius

nononono!!!!

Boro anneals at 1050..stikes at about 1100 to 1150 (depends on who you talk to and what color you are working).

Effetre/Moretti anneals at 968.

Here's a boro annealing cycle, assuming garaging (to load kiln with hot beads) at 975F:

Last bead in - soak at 975 for 30 minutes to equalize the last bead.

Ramp to 1050 over 30 minutes
Hold for 1 hour 30 minutes
Ramp down to 950 (strain point) over 2 hours
Hold 950 for 10 minutes
Ramp to ambient (room temperature) over 3-4 hours.

To run a color strike cycle:

Hold at 975 for 30 minutes to equalize the last bead
Ramp to 1150 over 10 minutes
Hold 1150 for 15 minutes
Ramp to 1050 over 15 minutes
Hold 1050 for 1 hour 30 minutes
Ramp to 950 over 2 hours
Hold 950 for 10 minutes
Ramp to ambient (room temperature) over 3-4 hours

IF-Designs · #24 2005-09-12, 1:18pm

oh and dont different colors strike at different temps and some colors you can get multiple colros from so you have to adjust your schedule to get those colors? this is what is talked about in numerous color formulas and recipe books and dvd's...I just want some clarification.

MikeAurelius · #25 2005-09-12, 1:23pm

Karin - here are the stress and annealing points for soft and boro:

Soft glass (Moretti): Strain point: 840 F, Annealing: 920-968 F http://www.arrowsprings.com/html/effetre__moretti_.html

Borosilicate: Strain point: 960 F, Annealing 1050 F
http://www.northstarglass.com/ (select User Information, Annealing Chart)

The Arrow Springs website is wrong for the strain point of boro.

MikeAurelius · #26 2005-09-12, 1:28pm

Karin - boro annealing is like making Chicken Soup. Everyone has their own "secret" recipie. Use the link I have above for Northstar, and then visit the Glass Alchemy website as well http://www.glassalchemyarts.com/usersmanual.html

I like the info much better from GA - there's a lot more technical info, but both companies use very different annealing curves. Dougie also uses several different curves in his video (BBM), depending on what colors he's using.

I've got my anneal programmed with 3 different annealing cycles, just depending on what colors I'm using.

And to throw another wrench in the gears, if you use a lot of greens and/or aventurine, you should garage at about 950-975 to prevent COE shift and never anneal higher than 1050 F, otherwise you will start to get COE fracturing.

IF-Designs · #27 2005-09-12, 1:41pm

Thats what I do mike because I do use alot of those colors...so I guess my cycle works for the colors I use the most. thats good to know. I was basing my systems off dougies and lori robbins.

Gail Joseph · #28 2005-09-12, 2:18pm

Oy Vey!

I just played around with Triple Passion, Purple Luster, some boro frits and then some sparkle-y one twisted with a periwinkle.....Just hoping SOMETHING looks somewhat nice. I've printed out the above advice, and will study!!!! Thanks!--Gail

Julz--I'd LOVE to have whatever info you'd like to share!

Heidi von Frozenfyre · #29 2005-09-12, 6:49pm

Julz, I think you could make some money if you'd share it!

I know I'd pay!

Heidi