New set up questions

bleusquid · #1 2013-04-18, 10:35am

I am getting ready to purchase a torch, kiln and oxygen condencer. I have around 2000 dollars to spend on getting these items. I am living in Louisiana so it is pretty humid.
I will be mostly working solid rod making marbles and pendents.
I have been looking at the GTT torches and unlimited O2 condencers. I know they having a sale on them now. I am just looking for some feed back or some ideas on the best set up.

Thanks

LarryC · #2 2013-04-18, 10:54am

Solid rod marbles require a significant amount of heat. Best way to do this is to use tanked oxygen and not a concentrator. Save the money on that and buy the best torch you can afford up front. GTTs really hold their value well. I would suggest a Lynx or even a Mirage. If you buy the Mirage you can just use the center fire until your ready to add in the outer fire and you will have a tool that you will not outgrow.

Mary K · #3 2013-04-18, 11:23am

I presume you already have ventilation? If not, that, is your first consideration. Without proper ventilation, you will create enough health problems for yourself it won't matter
how much money you have or what torch you have.
I do marbles to 1 3/4 inches and pendant of all sizes, & work on a GTT scorpion,
I have 2 Regalia Oxygen concentrators by Sequal to run this torch and it works
fine. You would need almost twice as much money as you have though. Get a GTT,
Larry is so right. But honestly, think about ventilation. It is not something you can just "skip".

Baywinger · #4 2013-04-18, 1:30pm

Gtt are costly but worth the money for working boro especially.
the other torch option the the red headed stepchild of gtt the cheetah

I love mine and can work marbles up to 2.25 inches as well as sculpture and blown work.
I can also do softglass beads on it so I find it a great torch, I like my wife's scorpion as well and it works great on oxycons but it is not triple mix which I am very fond of.
Larry's suggestion of tanks is a good one, they can be a pain but oxycons just do not compare
I have 3m20's feeding into an 11 gal holding tank for my wifes scorpion and that will run my cheetah for beads and things but it runs out of oxy quick when I try marbles so I mostly use my tanks.
as far as kilns go check out glasshive great product and awesome customer service I run both a paragon and a glasshive and while both are do the job well the glasshive a a better design.
also Pam will answer the phone 7 days a week to help out if needed for programing questions or anything else.

Baywinger · #5 2013-04-18, 1:33pm

oh and if you have any left over cash and are making marbles get the infinate rim 5 in 1 mold to start these are the best marble molds out there
http://www.artcoinc.com/infinite_rim.php

LarryC · #6 2013-04-18, 1:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baywinger

oh and if you have any left over cash and are making marbles get the infinate rim 5 in 1 mold to start these are the best marble molds out there
http://www.artcoinc.com/infinite_rim.php

I think Artco also may have some GTT torches left as well. They are very popular and can be hard to get on short notice.

bleusquid · #7 2013-04-18, 3:21pm

Thanks for the friendly advice. I think I may just get a bigger torch and used tanked oxygen. I can always save a while longer for the kiln. I am sure I need to practice before I need to anneal anything. Thanks Again

jhamilton117 · #8 2013-04-18, 4:20pm

Annealing is crazy important and even more so with boro, I don't think you could make a marble without a kiln and not have it crack or shatter from temp shock

LarryC · #9 2013-04-18, 4:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleusquid

Thanks for the friendly advice. I think I may just get a bigger torch and used tanked oxygen. I can always save a while longer for the kiln. I am sure I need to practice before I need to anneal anything. Thanks Again

I think it is much better to learn on tanked oxy initially and then switch to another arrangement later once you have worked with the material and equipment for a while and can adjust for the tradeoff in performance. A small kiln can be had for 500-700 new or less for used. For marbles and pendants you dont really need much space.

Jackson River Glass · #10 2013-04-18, 4:39pm

I love my cheetah, totally agree on the GTT's quality as well as customer service. Gotta mention Glasshive kilns too. Love mine, and like GTT their product quality and customer service is excellent.

AmorphousDesigns · #11 2013-04-18, 5:21pm

must haves:

proper eye protection (protect your eyes)
proper ventilation (protect your lungs)
fire extinguisher (protect your loved ones and your space)
fire proof work surface
torch
flashback arrestors (reduces risk of kaboom)
propane source (BBQ tank works fine)
O2 source (tank or oxycon)
kiln
handheld marver
bench marver (graphite, tile, flat and fireproof)

you can probably assemble most of this list for <$2000 if you are patient, look for deals and scrounge around for cheap/free stuff

Mary K · #12 2013-04-18, 7:45pm

Keep an eye on the Garage Sale portion of this forum, I sold a lynx for cheap not too long ago, and there are real deals from time to time there.

Dragonharper · #13 2013-04-19, 4:44am

You will also need a fireproof floor.

istandalone24/7 · #14 2013-04-19, 5:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhamilton117

Annealing is crazy important and even more so with boro, I don't think you could make a marble without a kiln and not have it crack or shatter from temp shock

not really true...with fiber blanket or vermiculite you can make decent sized boro marbles and even soft glass up to 1.5"
i didn't have a kiln until september of last year (used a friends, batch anneal) but i cranked out marbles like no tomorrow. i was very careful about making sure the temp base stayed even.

dweezil · #15 2013-04-19, 9:36am

Invest in a carbon monoxide detector. Ask me how i know.

istandalone24/7 · #16 2013-04-19, 10:05am

that's a good idea!

Lorraine Chandler · #17 2013-04-19, 10:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleusquid

I am getting ready to purchase a torch, kiln and oxygen condencer. I have around 2000 dollars to spend on getting these items. I am living in Louisiana so it is pretty humid.
I will be mostly working solid rod making marbles and pendents.
I have been looking at the GTT torches and unlimited O2 condencers. I know they having a sale on them now. I am just looking for some feed back or some ideas on the best set up.

Thanks

Sometimes the best setup is just the one you can afford. Most people upgrade as their interest or experience grows. You can sell what you make now to upgrade down the road. Since this is an extremely expensive hobby, deciding how much you can spend to start is a very good start rather than just jumping in blind.

You will need ventilation. Exhaust the captured bad fumes and replace the air.
This can be done on the cheap if you need to. A large floor fan from Home Depot in the window right behind the workbench and another large floor fan behind you or a open door or window. It works. Not ideal by any means but ..adequate.

A hood that will be the capture area. I personally feel this is a requirement no matter what but especially if you do the exhaust on the cheap.

Kiln.. you can make one or buy one used.
You said you are going to use tanked oxygen. K tank is the way to go because it will last awhile, transporting tanks is a pain, some states, counties, sellers of bottled oxygen have strict rules for transporting and most will not fill a tank unless purchased or rented from them.

Two concentrator 20 LPMS linked together should do you for awhile in case you want to go that route.

The torch for me would be something cheaper, that would easily do boro but not be a oxygen hog. For myself I would go with a Red Max because it is somewhat versatile with different tips and price is VERY GOOD.
http://www.sundanceglass.com/red-max-torch.htm

Best of luck and welcome to LE and the world of melting glass.

Baywinger · #18 2013-04-19, 11:51am

if you are making thin items like blown work and sculpture out of boro I find you can jut set them on the bench top without cracking as long as the room is not to cold or drafty.
I would never sell any of these items until they have been annealed but perhaps you can find someone near by that would allow you to run an occasional batch annealing cycle.
as stated above, fiber blanket and vermiculite will help out too.
Malcolm at ARTCO carries a great product called annealing bubbles while it does not anneal the glass it works great to slow down the cooling cycle to prevent cracking. http://www.artcoinc.com/annealing_bubbles.php

Baywinger · #19 2013-04-19, 11:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackson River Glass

I love my cheetah, totally agree on the GTT's quality as well as customer service. Gotta mention Glasshive kilns too. Love mine, and like GTT their product quality and customer service is excellent.

yeah another cheetah lover!!!
they really are great torches

jhamilton117 · #20 2013-04-19, 12:27pm

Maybe me working in a freezing warehouse in the middle of winter is why I had so much cracking issues

Baywinger · #21 2013-04-19, 3:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhamilton117

Maybe me working in a freezing warehouse in the middle of winter is why I had so much cracking issues

yep most likely I notice in the summer I have no problems but in the winter months I have cracking if I just put things on the bench top
I also have more issues with devit