ventilation set-up - what is wrong????

shari-kim · #1 2010-11-07, 11:08am

Dale,

I thought i would post some pics and dimensions on the forum and see what your thoughts are (or anyone else's) about my set-up.

I have a Barley Box - these are the measurements

32" deep
33" height with 7.5" slab at top front
32" width

25" from the tip of my torch (minor) to the fan

20" 3 speed box fan, i used strongest speed, this is mounted in the window

My set-up is concentrator - under the table - hooked into pool house gas line. I have a door behind me - cant close sadly - it serves as make-up air and also vents in the pool house (2) - these are beside me about 3 feet away - one up high and one down low.

After i bead (i try to do an hour or two daily) sometimes lately i feel a tightness in my chest and congestion in my nose (no coughing). I was thinking of:

ripping it out and starting from scratch with a squirrel cage set-up??? (ill have to hire someone)

wearing a respirator

I've done an incent test, the problem is i cant smell much at the best of times, i dont notice anything (i can see it being pulled out - but no super strong - i saw a video online of a ventilation system and there's was stronger - they used coloured smoke bombs). and i've done smoke test and it does pull it out.

Look forward to hearing from anyone with ideas

shari-kim · #2 2010-11-07, 11:20am

/Users/kimsanderson/Desktop/IMG_1918.jpg

shari-kim · #3 2010-11-07, 11:34am

here are pics of my studio for the thread

Lorraine Chandler · #4 2010-11-07, 12:39pm

Please stop torching until Dale looks at your studio setup. It might be unsafe next to the poolhouse equipment? Better safe than sorry.

Hugs
Lorraine

shari-kim · #5 2010-11-07, 1:38pm

wont make another bead until i hear

thanks,

Kim

HWCGlass · #6 2010-11-07, 1:43pm

how many hours a month average are you working there and for how long?

Improving your shop and vents is always a good idea, that being said I highly, highly doubt that you are having medical problems as a result of your lampworking.

houptdavid · #7 2010-11-07, 2:02pm

Looking at what you have my guess is the pool heater

shari-kim · #8 2010-11-07, 3:11pm

Thanks, i try to bead an hour a day. The pool heater is only on a few months a year. All the chemical are stored in plastic, within containers, within plastic, but i certainly could remove them (there are only two containers with chemicals). does anyone think my system needs improving??? what should i do

shari-kim · #9 2010-11-07, 3:31pm

i can turn off the pool heater and take any chemicals out (there are only 2 pails of super sealed chemicals); that is easy.... what about the set-up, is that ok - i thought my box looked big compared to others i've seen on this site. Maybe im just a hypercondriac (sp??) - which certainly could be the case. Either way, a respirator is a for sure thing!

alb6094 · #10 2010-11-07, 3:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by shari-kim

i can turn off the pool heater and take any chemicals out (there are only 2 pails of super sealed chemicals); that is easy.... what about the set-up, is that ok - i thought my box looked big compared to others i've seen on this site. Maybe im just a hypercondriac (sp??) - which certainly could be the case. Either way, a respirator is a for sure thing!

Kim, you are not a hypochondriac and don't discount your symptoms, your body is trying to tell you something. Some of us (myself included) are more sensitive to glass fumes than others.

Do what you need to be safe. You shouldn't have chest tightness after lampworking. Get a respirator if you need to. How you breathe before you lampwork is how you should breathe when you're done for the day.

Bright-eyed Beads · #11 2010-11-07, 4:50pm

Dale will have more but I think that the barley box is fantastic but probably need a better fan. Even if you go the same fan ( fan tech? ) as in Andrea Gurano's ventillation tut, it will work much better. Ok I know Dale is not a "fan" of this fan but it is a little more readily available then a squirrel cage fan. I live in Australia and you can get this sort of fan from a hydroponics store/supplier. If you can, move your set up into the house or a separate shed from the pool stuff. The barley box set up will protect the area surrounding your working area so you really won't have too many problems destroying walls etc in the house and you can protect the floor with some vinyl flooring spread over the top.

Another option is to literally put the table set up on wheels! At least it is summer at the moment, which is probably making this all worse, but if it is on wheels, you can still use the power in the pool shed and keep you kiln in there but wheel the table out side to torch so you get more air and are away from the chemicals. This may be faster although I know you want a more permanent solution!

Cheers

Jenny

shari-kim · #12 2010-11-07, 5:18pm

The good thing about the pool house is i hook into the natural gas line

i can get squirrel cage fan and change the ventilation (or buy a better box fan).... a lot easier than moving out of the pool house... i certainly can move out of the pool house, but moving into our garage requires me to have propane and i remember the house insurance issue with propane (even if its outside and hooked in through a window- i remember an issue with home insurance and propane).... that is why i moved to the pool house. i guess i could change to the shed and start all over again....

alb6094 · #13 2010-11-07, 5:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by shari-kim

The good thing about the pool house is i hook into the natural gas line

i can get squirrel cage fan and change the ventilation (or buy a better box fan).... a lot easier than moving out of the pool house... i certainly can move out of the pool house, but moving into our garage requires me to have propane and i remember the house insurance issue with propane (even if its outside and hooked in through a window- i remember an issue with home insurance and propane).... that is why i moved to the pool house. i guess i could change to the shed and start all over again....

I'd add the squirrel cage first. I actually found a rebuilt squirrel cage on eBay for $70 and $30 shipping. Two speeds and rocks so hard it will suck the door shut if I don't latch it open.

Watch Craigslist, eBay, and even LE. They come up here and there much cheaper than the $400 or however much it is to get them new from Grainger or whomever.

Bright-eyed Beads · #14 2010-11-07, 6:04pm

If you are on Natural Gas, and this is also on in the house...maybe that is an option? Where there is a will there is a way! Certainly you can tap into the line that goes to your pool shed if you build a separate structure. Either way I just realised that you guys are going in to winter...DOH!

Dale M. · #15 2010-11-07, 6:49pm

I'm not seeing anything that really bothers me... I'm not a real big fan of "window box fans", but upon doing some research even the most inexpensive "Box Window Fan" might produce upwards to 2000cfm..... IF this fan is capable of that (or near that), it would suck anything out in a heart beat..... Especially through a fume cabinet/box..... Only thing I "see' is something on outside of fan partially blocking it (upper part of fan - maybe portion of window) but even with this type fan you should have adequate air flow....

As for pool heater if its turned off and there is no pilot light burning there is nothing there that could be a danger, if its automatic and may start at any time you could get some flue reversal and be getting carbon monoxide and NOX (nitrogen oxide ) gasses.... But you say the heater is off.....

Only other thing might be pool chemicals.... Mainly anything that is "chlorine" may cause a problem.....

As others have mentioned and from what I can see and from the descriptions of your "tests" I'm sort of at a loss to say what might be causing your problem....... You are remembering to breath ...

You might try changing fan, but I have doubts its going to make any difference...

Wish I had a real answer for you....

Dale

lenora · #16 2010-11-07, 7:05pm

Kim, have you done an incense test?

shari-kim · #17 2010-11-07, 7:16pm

there is a squirrel cage fan on CL very cheap (under $100)- maybe i'll buy that.

dont have the heater on (only had it on once in 15 yrs that we've lived here). we only use the pool maybe 2 times a year when the sun warms it (kids have grown). i use the poolhouse only for beading... we do use the filter in the pool house to filter the water, but no heater. The pump is electric and runs 24/7.

I'll try getting a squirrel cage and remove any of the chemicals from the shop.

I've tried the incent test, i cant smell anything, but im not very good at smelling....

Bright-eyed Beads · #18 2010-11-08, 2:25am

Kim, You can get mini garden sheds that are large enough to store a few tools, that attach to the side of a building. May be you can use one of these to store or even rehouse all the stuff to do with the pool, therefore giving you more room to play with and removing any potential contamination or fumes. Also if you don't use it that often, maybe an idea to get it all checked out to see if it is working as it should be? Stuff like incomplete combustion, breakdown of insulating materials etc. Dare I say it, if you have an allergy to wildlife like rodents nesting, that might cause it too. Funny how tame they can become and they really like old machinery to nest in for heat etc. Probably not even afraid of you anymore! Sorry if I have grossed anyone out....

Get someone with a really good sense of smell to check it all out, go the squirrel cage fan as it is a good price and hopefully this will all be solved soon so you can get back torching! Good luck,

Cheers

Jenny

Bright-eyed Beads · #19 2010-11-08, 2:31am

Kim do you have a kiln? I went back to look at the images again and I saw some fibre blanket on your side table at the back, that looked like it was breaking down fast. This stuff can do some serious damage to your lungs too, just from loose fibres, much like asbestosis and silicosis. If you are using it, probably should get some new and make a cigar box kiln like corina's in Passing the Flame. That's all now as I am at a loss too!!!

alb6094 · #20 2010-11-08, 6:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright-eyed Beads

Kim do you have a kiln? I went back to look at the images again and I saw some fibre blanket on your side table at the back, that looked like it was breaking down fast. This stuff can do some serious damage to your lungs too, just from loose fibres, much like asbestosis and silicosis. If you are using it, probably should get some new and make a cigar box kiln like corina's in Passing the Flame. That's all now as I am at a loss too!!!

Oh that's true! Sheddy fiber blanket, not good!

cheng076 · #21 2010-11-08, 12:04pm

Kim,
I always advise people to check out their local Heating and Air conditioning shops for squirrel cage fans. The least likely cause of furnace failure is the fan so when these shops replace a furnace the fan is still good. I have gotten 4 or 5 very nice fans FREE just by asking. They may take it out of the old furnace for you or may want you to do it... but hey it's free.
PJH

shari-kim · #22 2010-11-09, 6:27am

i didnt know that about fibre blankets! thanks, away it goes to the garbage. can i put that old fibre blanket inside my chili pepper kiln, as i notice its getting less and less in there. i use fibre blankets outside and then use the kiln inside the house when im batch annealing. Im on holidays for 2 weeks, so no torching for me! i feel much better - thanks for all the great advice Lampworking friends

GlassyEyedGirl · #23 2010-11-09, 7:08am

The main problem with fans like that is that they can produce a lot of turbulence at the edges, and when there is turbulence, it can blow the noxious fumes back toward your face. You might need to put some kind of circular baffle around the edges of the fan in order to get the airflow going straight out. Does that make sense? I find that happens with my system. I have a piece of 12" metal duct I plan to install around the fan. I will let you know how that works.

shari-kim · #24 2010-11-09, 7:17pm

many thanks, i think i'll buy the squirrel cage fan and start from scratch again, i LOVE my hobby but really felt like it was making me sick.... so i'll start again and hire someone that does it for a living (ventilation i mean!)

really appreciated all the great and helpful suggestions

Bright-eyed Beads · #25 2010-11-10, 5:16am

Sounds like a good plan to me, Kim! When in doubt, go with your gut and just make sure that it is all working better then ever before. As for the fibre blanket in the bottom of your chilli pepper kiln, may be best to buy some new fibre blanket to put in the bottom or even better still, get a couple of pottery kiln tiles for the bottom. They won't break down like that and are better able to be kept clean of debris! Have a fantastic holiday and I hope that it all comes together quickly now. Looking forward to hearing how you go,

Cheers

Jenny

ironmountainglass · #26 2010-12-30, 5:48am

Kim please check all your connections for possible leaks, even your knobs on your torch itself. I was torching about 4 years ago and after each session I was sick, chest tight, felt like I couldn't breathe, then one night I after a session I was on my way home and had to pull over on the side of the road, I was just gasping for a breathe. I thought I was dying. Come to find out the knob on my torch was leaking and as I was right over the torch I was breathing in the propane. We sent the torch in for repairs and I've had no problems at all since. So please check all your connections.

Jaterwunky · #27 2010-12-30, 5:03pm

It looks like you might be hosed.. Looking at the furnace next to you I'd say your problem is your actually pulling fumes nito your area when you torch... I had same problem and had to move my studio to outside... I better fan is not going to solve your problems.....

Jaterwunky · #28 2010-12-30, 5:11pm

For fans Grainger has excellent fans.. I use their 12 inch cage fan (about 90$) has a great pull straight in my window..... Good luck and youyr symptoms definately sound like carbon monoxide poisoning.... be careful....