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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2011-02-23, 7:14am
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Default Copper etching tip!

There was a wonderful free tut about etching copper with sharpie markers, packing tape, and PCB Etchant (sold at Radio Shack) in this thread...

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...copper+etching

And it got me researching a bit. I like using sharpie markers for original designs, but I wanted to use clipart and such too (so I could have consistent designs for multiple pieces). The film that you can get for etching is nice, but it can be a bit pricey. I found a really cool tip on a robotics site (I love the geeky sites! They always have such great ideas using normal household stuff!). I tried it last night and it worked great!

1. First, create your design and print it out (If you are using words, print them backwards!).

2. Photocopy this onto the cheapest shiny paper you can find (I used coupons from my Sunday paper. The copy store thought I was crazy, but that is ok. Next time, I'll just do it at work.). Photocopy toner is actually plastic, which is what you need. Inkjet printing won't work (Lazer copies will work, but not as well as cheap black and white photocopies)!

3. If you put multiple designs on the same piece of paper, cut them out. You don't need to cut them out exactly, just separate them from each other.

4. Next, you need your iron and an ironing board. Heat your iron to the hottest setting. Place your shiny paper copy side up on the ironing board. Put your copper piece on top of the paper and lay the iron down on top of it (to heat the copper). Let it sit for a minute or two. Then firmly press down on the iron for a couple of seconds to make sure you've got a good seal (Don't wiggle your iron or you'll mess it up!).

5. Remove your iron and let it cool a bit (The copper is really hot! It takes a couple of minutes to cool enough so you can handle it).

6. Take your paper covered copper piece to the sink and stick it under the running water (Or stick it in a bowl of water. That works too.) In a minute or two, the water will have completely saturated the paper (This is why you want cheap, thin paper!). Start rubbing the paper with your fingers in a gentle circular motion. The paper will totally rub off, leaving your design.

7. Cover the outer edges with Sharpie, stick it on packing tape and etch using PCB Etchant. (Those steps are covered in the tut linked above). I etched mine for about 4o minutes to get a nice deep etch.

Sorry no pics! I will take a few later and attach them.
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  #2  
Old 2011-02-23, 7:30am
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This sounds interesting. Thank you.
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  #3  
Old 2011-02-23, 8:01am
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That's how I've been doing my etching. It works great!

BTW, when I put sharpie on my copper, I also use a hair dryer to heat set it before etching.

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  #4  
Old 2011-02-23, 8:35am
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I've made a lot of circuit boards that way and its a great process. You can hold fine details with no problem. I've never had any luck with markers providing a durable resist, though I think there are some with special ink sold just for that purpose. They probably work better for decorative etching; for circuits one has to etch all the way through the copper and the ink seems to break down well before that. The time and labor savings is unbelievable compared to the old methods of making film tools and coating the piece with photo resist. Of course, there's also wax and a scribe.
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  #5  
Old 2011-02-23, 8:47am
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I did a whole thread of the different methods...
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=175069
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  #6  
Old 2011-02-23, 9:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad Hoffman View Post
I've made a lot of circuit boards that way and its a great process. You can hold fine details with no problem. I've never had any luck with markers providing a durable resist, though I think there are some with special ink sold just for that purpose. They probably work better for decorative etching; for circuits one has to etch all the way through the copper and the ink seems to break down well before that. The time and labor savings is unbelievable compared to the old methods of making film tools and coating the piece with photo resist. Of course, there's also wax and a scribe.
I always read about "Sharpies" as resists, but it's not that simple (as I found out by trying with regular Sharpies).

You have to use the ones (Sharpie or otherwise, brand isn't important) that put a coating of paint out, not just that write with ink.

These are the pens you have to shake (like nail polish... and they usually have a ball bearing inside to help stir the paint while you're shaking) before using. Then you press the tip down a few times to prime the pen and get the paint flowing to the tip.

http://www.sharpie.com/enUS/Products...ntMarkers.aspx

Has to have the word "paint" on it:



And don't forget to heat set.
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  #7  
Old 2011-02-23, 9:05am
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I used regular old ink Sharpies. It worked for a lighter etch. You would definitely want the paint ones if you are going for a deeper etch.
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  #8  
Old 2011-02-23, 9:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBean View Post
I used regular old ink Sharpies. It worked for a lighter etch. You would definitely want the paint ones if you are going for a deeper etch.
Glad to hear you had success with the regular Sharpies. I never really thought about "light" or "deep" etching. Maybe I should ease up and try some "light etching". I've gone clean through my copper a few times. Sheesh!
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  #9  
Old 2011-02-23, 11:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura B View Post
(Snip)...
BTW, when I put sharpie on my copper, I also use a hair dryer to heat set it before etching. (Picture snipped)
What a good idea! I will see if there's a working hair dryer next time I go to the thrift store. (No, I don't use one for hair )
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Old 2011-02-23, 9:34pm
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Our local Radio Shack is small and didn't carry the solution, so I looked online and discovered the store an hour away did carry it. Unfortunately the website was wrong and they no longer carry it either. The salesman told me he thought Radio Shack had quit selling it at any of their locations. Bummer.
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Old 2011-02-23, 9:56pm
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Back when I was etching copper I switched from dirty brown staining ferric chloride, to nice clear ammonium persulfate. No idea where to get it now, but a search should turn up a supply. The dry chemical is very hygroscopic and, dry or mixed, it should never sealed up tightly as it evolves oxygen and can burst the container. Other than that, it's much more pleasant to use.

Best,
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  #12  
Old 2011-02-24, 6:02am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwhim View Post
Our local Radio Shack is small and didn't carry the solution, so I looked online and discovered the store an hour away did carry it. Unfortunately the website was wrong and they no longer carry it either. The salesman told me he thought Radio Shack had quit selling it at any of their locations. Bummer.
That stinks! I got it from mine only a month ago.
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Old 2011-02-24, 6:28am
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Cori, can we see a pic of yours?
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Old 2011-02-24, 7:03am
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I'll take some pics tonight when I get home from work.
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Old 2011-02-24, 5:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad Hoffman View Post
Back when I was etching copper I switched from dirty brown staining ferric chloride, to nice clear ammonium persulfate. No idea where to get it now, but a search should turn up a supply. The dry chemical is very hygroscopic and, dry or mixed, it should never sealed up tightly as it evolves oxygen and can burst the container. Other than that, it's much more pleasant to use.

Best,
Conrad
This method sounds really interesting. How long can you keep reusing this solution before it loses its etchability? Instead of storing the mixed solution, would it be better to just mix up a little then dispose of it? Also, how do you dispose of it?

Thanks for your help!

Cheers
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Old 2011-02-24, 6:15pm
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It's been a long time, but I remember it doesn't have as much capacity as the disgusting ferric chloride. I don't have much patience, so I like to use fresh solutions. I'd always mix it as needed. Anything with dissolved metals, including ferric chloride will be hazardous waste, so shouldn't be dumped down the drain. Somebody better versed in chemistry might tell you how to neutralize it- try a search. I found some references to bicarb or ammonia. We only have hazardous waste collection once a year where I live, and I miss it more often than not, but that's really where it needs to go.

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Conrad
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Old 2011-02-25, 10:43pm
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Thanks for the info Conrad. I've used baking soda for neutralizing the PC etchant stuff from Radio Shack (after reading in some of my metal books that that's a good way to neutralize), so that might work for the ammonium persulfate. I'll Google it and see what I can find.

Cheers
Kathy
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  #18  
Old 2011-03-03, 10:02pm
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Default Using Ammonium Persulfate as Copper Etchant

You can purchase Ammonium Persulfate at Fry's. A friend uses this method and gets much faster results than I do with Ferric Chloride (I use the Edinburgh Etch Method). With the ammonium persulfate you can see through the solution with a flash light to check the progress of your piece. I plan to try this real soon.

I currently use the PCB toner transfer paper with a laminator to put on my resist. It allows for a very deep etch. I do the PnP paper with the laminator also. My friend said you can't use a Sharpie marker as a resist when you use ammonium persulfate.

There is a lot of information and photos on etching in the following lampworketc. links:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=175069

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=183156

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...=120896&page=4
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Old 2011-03-06, 9:05pm
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Thanks for the infor Audrey! Folks have been talking about a Sparpie paint pen. Do you think that would work with the ammonium persulfate instead of a regular Sharpie?

Cheers
Kathy
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Old 2011-03-07, 10:55pm
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Root Kill from Lowe's will work as an acid. Neutralize w/baking soda to dispose, and keep away from fish ponds.

My question is what gauge copper are you using to get a fairly deep etch for jewelry. I tried it on bead caps and the etch was pretty subtle. I was afraid to weaken the caps by etching too deeply though. So what do you think?
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