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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2010-06-25, 1:56pm
Gham Gham is offline
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Default Reusing mandrels????

My teenage son, Zach, had invested some of his money (He is an extremely tight fisted, frugal kid.) to purchase some mandrels in a variety of sizes. Well, before he knew it, he had filled all of the mandrels up with beads. He has to work 11 hours today (8 hour shift at the grocery store and 3 hours lifeguarding tonight at the pool) so I thought I would be a helpful mom and remove the beads from the mandrel for him so that he could batch anneal those beads and then have empty mandrels to make more beads. Well...good intentions don't always lead to good results. I ended up bending a bunch of his mandrels and I left deep groove marks (I used my husband's Craftsman Robo-Grip pliers to hold onto the mandrel.) on many of the mandrels. I told him that I would replace the ones that were too bent to use. I have 3 questions I would like to ask all of you.
1. Should I replace the ones that have the deep groove marks too or can those still be reused?
2. Also, I wasn't able to get a couple of beads off the mandrel. Is there a trick to getting stuck beads off of a mandrel? I put them in the freezer in hopes that that would help, but no luck.
3. Is there a better way to get beads off of a mandrel than with a pliers?
He was so overwhelmed with gratitude that I took the time to take the beads off the mandrels and was very compassionate and understanding when I showed him the 17 beads that I broke in the process of removing the beads from the mandrel.
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  #2  
Old 2010-06-25, 2:06pm
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What kind of bead release are you using? That might help.

Also how think or thin is it?
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  #3  
Old 2010-06-25, 2:26pm
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He uses Foster Fire. He uses it straight out of the bottle (doesn't thin it down at all).
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  #4  
Old 2010-06-25, 2:27pm
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I have found that, if I wait several days or a week to take beads off mandrels, it can be more difficult to remove the beads.

Some bead releases release easier than others.

Many of my mandrels get scored by the pliers, but it's usually above the "dipping line". I can't imagine it would matter anyway since the bead release would smooth the surface out if the metal were scored in the part where the mandrel is dipped, but I'm not completely sure on that point.

Sometimes the freezer works; sometimes not. If not, then I usually call on my husband who has so far been successful if I am not.

ETA: Foster Fire is the bead release that is easiest for me; I don't soak them or anything - just grab with pliers, twist, & off they come. Unless the formula has changed over the years & it doesn't release as easily. Maybe the beads just sat around on mandrels for too long?

17 broken beads sounds a bit excessive, but then I don't know how many beads you started out with, nor how carefully they were cooled down.

And, tell me, who is going to clean the beads out?? That's the job I hate!
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  #5  
Old 2010-06-25, 2:33pm
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you do realize they have to soak in water first?
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  #6  
Old 2010-06-25, 2:42pm
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Thanks for the advice to take them off the mandrel sooner than later!!! I appreciate that advice. These beads sat for a couple of weeks. I had soaked them for a little bit (hour or so) and then tried taking them off. The ones that survived are going into the kiln tomorrow to be batch annealed. From now on he won't be doing the batch annealing method. He will be annealing them the way that you put them in as you make them. He just learned how to use a kiln on Tuesday. Both he and I will clean the beads out together. It is actually kind of fun and provides some great bonding time. We sit down and clean and have some really great chats. He is such a busy kid; it is sometimes the only time we get to spend time catching up with each other.
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  #7  
Old 2010-06-25, 2:55pm
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The beads that don't just come off the mandrel with a fairly gently twisting motion I put in the mandrel in the bench vise and than twist and pull up on the bead.(after a soaking in water) Many I thought were lost causes have come off using the vise and I don't seem to bend the mandrel that way either.
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  #8  
Old 2010-06-25, 3:20pm
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Thanks for the bench vise advice. I'll have to see if hubby has one of those tools.
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  #9  
Old 2010-06-25, 4:45pm
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I used to soak mine before removing them but found that if I didn't take them off right away I had a few beads with rust stains. I read where someone on here LE....removed hers dry which is what I do now and I like it a lot better. Also they mentioned running the mandrel back thru the hole a few times before putting to soak it removes a lot of the release and has made cleaning up much easier and quicker. I use a pair of vice grip and for the really onery beads that are tough to get off....I bang the mandrel (not the bead) against my work bench it seems to help if not just my frustration lol. Also you can try placing them in the freezer sometimes that will work.
You were a nice Mom to do that for your son....bet if you asked him it's his least favorite thing to do lol
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  #10  
Old 2010-06-25, 5:16pm
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If you have a harbor Freight close by, go and get a "rivet tool" and some small rubber o-rings that will just fit on the mandrels.

See this thread:

http://lampworketc.com/forums/showth...ght=rivet+tool
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  #11  
Old 2010-06-25, 5:52pm
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If those broken beads just split in half like occasionally some of mine do,using a dremel to file down the mandrel ridge and smooth it out,they make neat cabochons if they are oval or round.Jewelry supply stores like Fire Mountain and Rio Grande sell cabochon blanks.Just a tiny layer of E6000 glue is all you need to make a brandy new pendant
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  #12  
Old 2010-06-25, 6:23pm
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Bent mandrels can be straightened...... Gouged up mandrels from using tools can be filed and cleaned up.....

I've been using the same couple of dozen mandrels for several years ....

Usually I remove beads as soon as they are cool with water, keeps dust down and softens release.....

Craftsman ROBO TOOL is junk... Its for people who do not understand tools (no aimed at you) but its design causes more damage to anything you apply it to than any other tool I have ever seen... Will NOT let one near anything I own....

As for so many broken ones... This is from improper cooling after coming out of torch for final time.....

I cool my bread in vermiculite and batch anneal and have maybe 1-2 in 50 crack on me...

Dale
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  #13  
Old 2010-06-25, 6:38pm
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Ann Royer had a gadget her husband made that helped remove beads from mandrels. I'm not sure if she sells them or not but it is great! (She uses Foster Fire) Ann is a member here and maybe you could message her about it.
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  #14  
Old 2010-06-25, 7:09pm
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if worse comes to worse and you cant get the bead off the mandrel just flash it through the flame (eye protection!) and the bead will crack and pop off - at least that way you save the mandrel
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  #15  
Old 2010-06-26, 6:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale M. View Post

Craftsman ROBO TOOL is junk... Its for people who do not understand tools (no aimed at you) but its design causes more damage to anything you apply it to than any other tool I have ever seen... Will NOT let one near anything I own....

Dale
Hey Dale ... what do you use if not a Robo Tool????
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Old 2010-06-26, 7:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Oops View Post
I read where someone on here LE....removed hers dry which is what I do now and I like it a lot better.
Inhaling bead release dust is bad for you. Rather than soaking, maybe you could wet them enough to keep from making any dust?
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Old 2010-06-26, 7:26am
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Could the bead release be cracking a little exposing the mandrel? Then hot glass was actually touching the mandrel?

Also, was the glass dripping on to the mandrel? The more molten the glass going onto the mandrels the easier it is to get the beads off.

Was the bead release heated to a light red glow for a few seconds before the glass was applied to the mandrel. If you prep the mandrel that also helps the bead release later on. All of this makes beads easier to get off the mandrels.
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Old 2010-06-26, 8:14am
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I'm not Dale... but I use a vise grip latched on about 2-3 inches below the bead grab the bead with a damp towel or a rubbery jar opener thing and twist in opposing directions. wiggle-wiggle till it's loose then slide it back and forth a few times to remove as much release as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angie09 View Post
Hey Dale ... what do you use if not a Robo Tool????
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Old 2010-06-26, 8:21am
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Thanks Jamie Lynne! I tried a vise grip but it didn't hold the rod tight enough so I was just wondering if there is some wonderful tool (yes, I'm a tool whore) that would be better than the Robo Grip (which is what I use). And instead of a towel or jar opener, I put a rubber surfaced glove on my left hand (you can get them at Home Depot and I think they're for gardening or whatever). Works great!!
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  #20  
Old 2010-06-26, 9:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angie09 View Post
Hey Dale ... what do you use if not a Robo Tool????
Put mandrel in vice, use smooth end of vice grips....

I vary rarely ever have to resort to "man tools" to get bead off....

Also for gripping beads, Bill over at Art Glass Answers (or glasscatbeads.com) used to make a bead vice for gripping beads, you can contact him to see if product is still available...

Dale
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  #21  
Old 2010-06-26, 11:36am
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I use Fusion. I just dunk the cooled bead in water, give it a twist, and off it comes. In the last 3 years, I have only had one bead stick. The bead release had cracked and I continued to work it anyway. Oh well, I liked the bead so it became a plant stake! Fusion also cleans out easy. Sometimes just rubbing the bead up and down the mandrel while it's under water does the trick.
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Old 2010-06-27, 6:59am
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Gham,

I soak my beads over night. I have a bench vise that has wooden jaws. I tighten them in the vice, next to the bead, and gently rock and twist the bead till it loosens and comes off. If something is stubborn, I soak an extra day and try again. After that comes the freezer trick.

but I have far less issues with bending mandrels, and I like thin ones, if I put the vice jaws close to the bead, and make sure my hand is in line with the mandrel as I twist and pull.

there is also a neat little trick of using a rivet gun to remove stuck beads, do a search in the threads for more info on that.

your best bet for mandrels is to buy 316 stainless steel welding rod and cut it up. I cut mine on a grinding wheel, since it deburs the mandrel at the same time, and I am not cranking my hand and flaring my carpal tunnel issues by squeezing bolt cutters. I mark my mandrels with a sharpie before cutting them.

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  #23  
Old 2010-06-27, 7:05am
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Here's the rivet tool thread to loosen stuck beads:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ight=rivet+gun
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Old 2010-06-27, 8:21am
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I use Fusion also and my beads are super easy to get off. Twist once and off they come. Super simple.
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  #25  
Old 2010-06-27, 10:48am
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I can remove almost all of my beads by hand, although I will use pliers if they are around.
Bead release should be glowing red before you put the glass on.

My favorite bead release is frantz, and I mixed in a small sample bottle of bucket of mud. I haven't had bead release crack in forever and I can literally just pull the beads off without any tools (although it takes a fair deal of effort).
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Old 2010-06-27, 12:36pm
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I spent many a night thinking about how to straighten and reuse mandrels.

I have been using Super Blue sludge, and at least I'm rarely breaking the bead release when working (but release isn't important here)

I've been doing some weird creative things to get the beads off the mandrels.

I drop the cooled beads on the mandrels in an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner with some warm soapy water. A couple of minutes of ultrasonic bliss knocks the release off the mandrels.

Then I use an awesomely-fantastic creative tool to help grip the mandrel as i twist the bead off…a pair of sheet metal pliers with a wide flat nose.

A pair of what??? I dunno. This particular tool showed up in my "tool bag" and I thought, "hmmmm…".

I grip the mandrel below the bead with the mandrel perpendicular to the long edge of the pliers and twist. The bead usually comes off.

If the bead doesn't come off easily I revert to the "rivet tool method", just barely loosen the bead and use the rivet tool to hold the mandrel tight while I twist. That usually works.

Back to the sheet metal pliers—I have a love for using 1/16" mandrels, and we all know how long those last. I use the wide flat jaws of the sheet metals pliers, put my 1/16" mandrels in parallel to the long edge of the jaws and squeeze, turn the mandrel slightly, squeeze, turn the mandrel slightly, etc.

Straightens 'em right out almost perfectly. I haven't had to toss a mandrel since I started using this method.

I use any badly-grooved 1/16" mandrels as mini-files and run them inside the now off-the-mandrel beads to remove the residual wet bead release. I find wet release gums up my diamond dremel bits.
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