Is Hobby Lobby Torch a bad word?

Prissy Fish · #1 2007-11-05, 6:57pm

I still want either a minor or bobcat torch but money is really tight right now. I saw a $99.95 torch kit at Hobby Lobby with a Firestarter torch. There is a 40% discount coupon which will put at about 60 bucks. Everything to start but tank and hose. Will it be about like a HH? I have always been a believer of "you get what you pay for" so I know this won't last long but will it last long enough to practice making beads until money is more abundant? I can sell some musical equipment as a trade off to get a better torch but I really want to make sure I can do this.
Any help is appreciated!

Phoenix · #2 2007-11-05, 7:03pm

I've not used a firworks torch (I believe that's what is in the kit) but I have heard from many others that the hothead is far better for the same or less money- personally, I would go that route. Many of us used and loved our hotheads for quite awhile.

NLC Beads · #3 2007-11-05, 7:07pm

I only saw one Fireworks torch, it burned every bead it made - the student brought it to use at one of my classes... I didn't know how to make it better, so I had her try a HH and things went much smoother.

I don't know if this is representative of the Fireworks torch as a whole, or if it was a faulty torch, but it colored my opinion of them... If someone has has good results with one, I'd love to hear about it.

jesgen · #4 2007-11-05, 7:20pm

I went with the Hobby Lobby kit. I used the 40% coupon. I bought some hobby lobby glass with 40% coupon too. I used a lot of stained glass to learn how to make beads. I work with stained glass also. I found that I like lampworking and soon bought hose and an adapter so I could use the LP barbaque tank instead of the 1LB propane bottles. I did not see much difference between Mapp gass and propane. It did seem like propane from the Barbaque tank was hotter than the 1 lb bottles. Not sure why unless it had to do with pressure. I bought lampworking glass on the internet because it is cheaper than hobby lobby's and you can get the color you want. I the bought a minor torch and then a kiln. I believe most would buy a kiln and then a better torch. Those beads should be annealed if you are going to sell them. This has been an on going process for about 2 years. I am happy with the way that I have gone.

Question for others out there. Is a hot head that much different than the hobby lobby fire works torch? Is a hot head the same as a propane torch?

Prissy Fish · #5 2007-11-05, 7:21pm

Thanks, I just found another post about this same question....sorry, I thought I had looked good before I posted. I think you are both right I can spend the extra and get the HH. Atleast then I have something to compare to since a lot of people have them.
I know I need the glasses. I doubt a hose comes with it. I was thinking about using the MAPP. Is that good choice? Any hose recommendations?
Thanks, I love this site, everyone is so helpful and informativel.......

Prissy Fish · #6 2007-11-05, 7:31pm

I have a BBQ propane tank already.* I seem to get the feeling that its better to use that than the 1 gal. I would have bought the kit today but they won't have them until tomorrow. I bought a pack of glass rods and used a 40% coupon. You can print the coupon out from internet and use one a day. I didn't realize that before. I about 1 hour drive to the nearest Hobby Lobby.

Looks like maybe I can get started quicker than I thought!YEA!!! I am thinking I will work on my sun porch that has sliding doors all the way around and I can open those. It's not heated or cooled but I do have a electric gas log heater there. I wonder if I need a vent hood somewhere?

Phoenix · #7 2007-11-05, 7:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prissy Fish

I have a BBQ propane tank already.* I seem to get the feeling that its better to use that than the 1 gal. I would have bought the kit today but they won't have them until tomorrow. I bought a pack of glass rods and used a 40% coupon. You can print the coupon out from internet and use one a day. I didn't realize that before. I about 1 hour drive to the nearest Hobby Lobby.

Looks like maybe I can get started quicker than I thought!YEA!!! I am thinking I will work on my sun porch that has sliding doors all the way around and I can open those. It's not heated or cooled but I do have a electric gas log heater there. I wonder if I need a vent hood somewhere?

I was MUCH happier using the bbq tank- no wories about freezing tanks or running out of gas at the wrong time

rosemarie23 · #8 2007-11-05, 7:54pm

I started on a Fireworks torch. I would not recommend it.

It was actually ok for a month or so, but it started to wear out rapidly. The starter thing wore out right away, and then the flame kept getting smaller and smaller as the months wore on. It was hard to melt and shape even a small bead. I did learn a lot about heat control, though.

I did move to bulk propane instead of MAPP gas - those little cans are stupidly expensive and freeze too fast. It certainly didn't make the torch *worse*

Now, a Hot Head - well that certainly isn't a bad choice from what I've heard.

Prissy Fish · #9 2007-11-05, 8:04pm

Thanks, I knew there was a good reason I needed to use the BBQ tank. Actually my son has a couple of tanks but I don't know about hoses. I may order a new on when I order the kit to be on the safe side. Mountainglassarts.com has a starter kit that looks good and fits my buget. I got about $150 to get started. I hope that is enough.Which tool would be the best to get first?

Phoenix · #10 2007-11-05, 8:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prissy Fish

Thanks, I knew there was a good reason I needed to use the BBQ tank. Actually my son has a couple of tanks but I don't know about hoses. I may order a new on when I order the kit to be on the safe side. Mountainglassarts.com has a starter kit that looks good and fits my buget. I got about $150 to get started. I hope that is enough.Which tool would be the best to get first?

My favorites when new and the things I still go to
shears (kitchen shears are fine for msot things)
tungsten pick
tweezer masher (I don't use this now- but I did constantly before getting marger things to mash with
graphite marver
cheap tweezer set from Harbor Freight

menty666 · #11 2007-11-05, 8:15pm

The HH is a great starter torch in that it doesn't require all the add ons the usual mix torches do like regulators, oxy tanks and hoses. However if you want to dive in and get one that can do boro and soft glass, consider one of the National torches like the 3a.

Still, for simplicity....the HH is a good soft glass starter.

I find that MAPP's dirtier than the propane is even if it does burn a little hotter.

Delphi sells a bead starter kit that includes a few tools, the HH, some glass, mandrels, glasses, and some bead release. The bead release was terrible and the glasses were terrible. But some if you're just doing occasional soft glass, some phillips ACE glasses should be ok for you.

Prissy Fish · #12 2007-11-05, 9:19pm

What is the best bead release ? I have all kinds of tweezers stuff like that.* I may get a graphite marver to start.Thanks for all the help.*

Actually my first purchase was Corina Tettinger's Passing the Flame.* It cost more that a HH, but I think it will be worth it.* Lots of good stuff in there.* Going on an 8 hour trip tomorrow so I will be reading while DH drives.* Maybe my laptop will work on interstate 65 going north!

Thanks for the help.* Lots of good advice here.

jesgen · #13 2007-11-05, 9:36pm

I got a hose and an adapter to connect the barbaque tank to the hh torch or fire works torch at Wal Mart. I paid about $25 for the setup. They were in the outdooor section, colman accessary attachments.

Phoenix · #14 2007-11-05, 9:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prissy Fish

What is the best bead release ? I have all kinds of tweezers stuff like that.* I may get a graphite marver to start.Thanks for all the help.*

Actually my first purchase was Corina Tettinger's Passing the Flame.* It cost more that a HH, but I think it will be worth it.* Lots of good stuff in there.* Going on an 8 hour trip tomorrow so I will be reading while DH drives.* Maybe my laptop will work on interstate 65 going north!

Thanks for the help.* Lots of good advice here.

You'll get eight different answers for this- for my HH I used and loved Foster Fire regular

Prissy Fish · #15 2007-11-06, 6:23am

I feel dumb asking this but I am new so what is Foster Fire? And BTW, I love the glass on your website. I want to order the copper green and ivory and ....I could name all of them. I hope they are good for beginners. I am still learning about all this.

I visit Wally World on a regular basis so I will check out their hose before I order.

If I get 8 answers then I guess I will have more to choose from!lol I like all the input but it does give my pea brain more to think about.........but that keeps me out of trouble I think

littleannag@gmail.com · #16 2007-11-06, 7:47am

I actually got that kit at Hobby Lobby. First couple of times I used the torch it would start up ok. After a couple of weeks trying to use it, it doesn't start on its own anymore. It doesn't melt the glass very well any more. I couldn't even finish a bead last night.

Just Nancy · #17 2007-11-06, 7:53am

I had a hot head and then a FireWorks one. I don't know what happened with my quick start one. The biggest thing I heard is the starter dies out kind of quickly.

Foster Fire, Bucket of Mud, and others are bead release. The stuff that tends to come with starter kits is marginal at best. If you don't have a good bead release you may think that you aren't making the beads right and it could just be crummy release.

jesgen · #18 2007-11-06, 8:41am

I have used fireworks bead release only. I have been doing lampwork now for about 2 years. It has worked well for me, but then again I have not tried any other.

I found that the 1st time a mandrel is used that it has to be heated red hot to burn off the oils. Only the end that will be coated with bead release. I usually let the release dry over night, but I have dipped and gone to the flame a few minutes later. You have to heat the mandrel and release till you get a glow. If you touch the glass to the release before you get the glow, the release will come off. Some beads are very tight to get off the mandrel and I soak them in water for awhile. Most beads come off easily. I have done some two inch long beads but I double dipped the release to get the extra room to remove the bead from the mandrel. Since it is working for me, I have not been in a hurry to try something else.

A hose and adaptor can probably be got at an lp gas supplier. There is one in my area that custom makes hoses etc. It was a better deal, by a couple dollars, to get what I needed at Wal Mart in the outdoor department to connect to a barbeque lp tank.

I used the fireworks torch for over a year without any trouble. The starter worked fine and still does so. Turn the ring for the oxygen off till the torch is lit. After the torch is lit, turn the oxygen ring fully open. Do not work too close to the torch. I was about 3 months discovering that the gray lines that I was getting in my beads was smut, unburned gas. Stay at least two inches from the torch. Light Blue is a good color to learn about this because it will turn brown or ugly looking if worked too close to the torch head.

Emily · #19 2007-11-06, 9:27am

Foster Fire, Bucket of Mud, Fusion (FPI) Bead Separator, KRAG Mudd, Sludge, are all brands of bead release. Foster Fire has several different formulas. Sludge has a couple of different formulas, too. Everybody has a different preference for bead release, and people get into all kinds of arguments about it. (There are others on the market, too -- these are just the ones that I can remember right now.) These are all quality bead releases. You'll just need to try one or more until you find something that suits you.

For the first "real" tool that you buy, I'd recommend a graphite paddle. I don't like the very small ones that are about an inch square. The one I use is at least 2 inches wide by 3 inches long -- might even be larger. (I don't have one of the really large ones, though, because that would get heavy to use.) I like a slightly larger paddle because when I'm making a cylinder or bicone bead, I can roll it on the graphite paddle. Other than that, you can use tweezers (large and small), needlenose pliers (I like non-serrated ones, but they're harder to find), a butter knife, paring knife, or metal palette knife, and a poking thing/raking thing like a dental pick or awl. Someone mentioned a tungsten pick. Tungsten doesn't stick to glass like steel does when it gets warm, but it's more expensive. You can buy a stainless steel pick for a few dollars and it will work nicely if you dip it in water from time to time so it doesn't get warm. Mashers are very useful, and you'll probably want them eventually, but you can flatten beads by pressing them between your graphite paddle and a marver on your table. What's a marver? Something flat. It can be a graphite pad that you buy. It can also be a piece of marble (a tile, a cutting board, a coaster), a piece of metal (not aluminum -- use brass or steel), or a ceramic tile.

Think about what you're going to use to light your torch. I recommend learning to use a striker -- one of the metal devices where you squeeze a handle that rubs a flint against a rough surface to make a spark. If you use matches or a lighter, do not keep them on your work table. Light your torch, then immediately put them somewhere that they can't be hit by a stray bit of hot glass. This is particularly true if you use a lighter. They explode if hot glass melts through the plastic -- we had a post here a year or so ago from a guy who lost an eyebrow when a lighter exploded, and he was lucky that's all that happened.

It's good that you know that ventilation is important. You'll want to make sure that you don't have drafts blowing your flame, though. You don't want a gust of wind to blow the flame onto your hand. This might mean some sort of shield to block drafts just at table height. It all depends on your work space.

You should have a fire extinguisher handy somewhere you can grab it on your way out of your work area. Most of us have never used ours, but if you need it -- you really need it. It can prevent a small problem from becoming a big emergency.

Amybeads · #20 2007-11-07, 7:31pm

I have been using my Fireworks torch for 2 1/2 years now and it still works great. The starter stopped working after a while, but lasted much longer than I had heard that others had. That is not a big deal because you just start the flame the same way as the hot head.

Prissy Fish · #21 2007-11-08, 7:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily

You should have a fire extinguisher handy somewhere you can grab it on your way out of your work area. Most of us have never used ours, but if you need it -- you really need it. It can prevent a small problem from becoming a big emergency.

Thanks for all the the good info. I have a fire extinguisher but I am still trying to figure out where to put "My Studio". We are getting a commerical building back from a renter that hasn't paid in several months and I have talked my husband in to making it a "Prissy Fish Emporium"! I can have plenty of workspace and several of my friends do some kind of art and want to put some on consignment so PRESTO, I have a new job! I live in a beach vacation spot and the is an ideal location with lots of traffic and easy entrance and exit. I am in the Real Estate business but the market has been really bad here for 2 years so I have some time and can do both until it picks up. I have plenty of time to get the building ready and learn to do lampwork. It will be much easier to install ventilation there than at my house. I am 3/4 mile from the gulf but we get lots of breezes and I don't like to be burned!

CraftyPaganMama · #22 2014-02-09, 10:55am

After having done a bunch of research, (and being very low on funds) I decided why not? I'll take the risk and buy the kit. Well I should have heeded the advice I found in the forums. Not only did the torch head NEVER work once, the release included is total crap. I ended up having to spend even more money on a new hot head torch and new release at a local glass store. Don't make the same mistake I did. It's just a waste of time and money.