Copper mesh and cracking

Kevan · #1 2008-07-04, 12:49am

Has anyone else had this problem with beads and copper mesh? Quite a few of my Dragon Pod beads have cracked on the encased copper mesh part. And cracked in multiple directions, but just on the transparent encased part. They have had different kinds of glass at the core - Vetro, CIM, Effetre and DH.

Troll Lover · #2 2008-07-04, 1:11am

Yeah, unfortunately... Which clear do you use Kevan? Some of my hearts crack as well, on the copper part, even though I put them directly in the kiln. Just the transparant... Haven't found out if it's a thermal crack or because you have to abuse the glass so much. Maybe even incompatible?

I know I keep my hearts a few weeks myself before I put them on sale, just in case...

Kevan · #3 2008-07-04, 1:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troll Lover

Yeah, unfortunately... Which clear do you use Kevan? Some of my hearts crack as well, on the copper part, even though I put them directly in the kiln. Just the transparant... Haven't found out if it's a thermal crack or because you have to abuse the glass so much. Maybe even incompatible?

I know I keep my hearts a few weeks myself before I put them on sale, just in case...

Yeah, they seem to crack a few days later, so I'm holding onto them for a while. It's disappointing for sure. I have been using two clears, Vetrofond Crystal Clear and CIM clear.

suzanne · #4 2008-07-04, 1:49am

Yep, my beads with coppermesh all cracked on the transparant part ( I used diamond clear, vetrofond,moretti and lauscha. The only clear that seems to work for me is flex. Expensive, but worth every single penny. I am waiting on a shipment with new lauscha reformulated clear and I'm very curious to see what will happen when I use that glass.

Troll Lover · #5 2008-07-04, 2:16am

It sure is disappointing, they take a lot of time and glass... I'll have to try that Flex for my hearts then Suzanne, I've had a lil' stash but I'm already through it.

Carmen Isaacs · #6 2008-07-04, 2:37am

What glass is Flex and where do you get it?

Troll Lover · #7 2008-07-04, 2:52am

I'm afraid it's only in the Netherlands available? But I'm not sure... You can get it at www.stipglas.com (no online shop, but you can send an email).

suzanne · #8 2008-07-04, 3:33am

From what I know so far Flex is a new glass developed by Stipglas ( this is what I heard, I am not sure if this is true or false) but it's fully compatible with all silverglass , moretti, lauscha and other 104 brands. It's supposed to be compatible with lower coe glass such as kugler and reichenbach 98 and bullseye but I haven't fully tested that yet. I made three bullseye beads encased with flex, and all three of them shattered so that combo wasn't compatible at all.

Islandgirl · #9 2008-07-04, 4:42am

Mine don't crack as long as I stick to ivory under the mesh.. my clear is 8 year old moretti... (I live out in the boonies I ordered 10 pounds they sent me 10 kilos... I just discovered the last kilo stashed in the back of my studio....) I tried a bunch using vet Yellow Ice (instead of ivory)... they all cracked big time! But all the cracks are on the mesh side!

Lynne

Carolyn M · #10 2008-07-04, 7:37am

Yep mine have cracked. Glad to hear it's not just me!!

Carmen Isaacs · #11 2008-07-04, 7:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troll Lover

I'm afraid it's only in the Netherlands available? But I'm not sure... You can get it at www.stipglas.com (no online shop, but you can send an email).

Thanks, is it nice and clear??

tiggybubba · #12 2008-07-04, 10:45am

I know that Sherry only uses Vetro crystal clear. She didnt mention any cracking problems. Mine havent made it to the kiln yet (all have met a watery death!). Maybe she will chime in here with some suggestions...

Jeri · #13 2008-07-04, 11:03am

I use a lot of mesh with both Moretti and Lauscha clear, and on occasion Vetrofond clear, and none have cracked. I haven't seen Sherry's chaos tutorial so I'm not specifically talking about that technique, but when I use clear over copper I think it is helpful if the mesh is deeply imbedded (or to say it another way, thickly encased) and also that the bead has had a good overall reheating before going in the kiln. Maybe some of that would help. Jeri

Cabanlet · #14 2008-07-04, 11:54am

I have made a few and used vetro clear and ivory. No cracks and it has been 3-4 weeks.

Amy

Kevan · #15 2008-07-04, 12:17pm

I have used mostly the vetro crystal clear. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to which base colors have cracked and which haven't. I'm going to try putting some of the clear under the base color and see what happens with that.

quincyandco · #16 2008-07-04, 12:27pm

I do fusing also and I have had cracking issues at times, in fusing it depends on how much/thick the metal is compared the volume of glass over it. I suspect maybe that is more the reason for cracking beads. The proportion is important and I think it would be the same for your beads.

lldesigns · #17 2008-07-04, 12:48pm

I use Moretti crystal clear and so far (knock on wood) mine are fine.

sunnyone · #18 2008-07-04, 8:16pm

I have been making them a different way than the tut and I havent had any cracks. I just got the tut and will try it the "sherry" way as well. I do put a lot of trans over the mesh and do super heat it as well.....I'll be watching them very closely. I have been using moretti and vetro reg and crystal clear. I do think I used diamond clear on a couple too.

crystal

Sherry · #19 2008-07-04, 8:30pm

I just found this thread....I've used many different colors of glass for the encasing, pretty much all of the hand-pulled transparents, in particular the 018 and 049. Clears that I've used have been moretti and vetrofond, I've never tried Lauscha or Diamond, or any of the others.

My usual "slug" glass is Moretti light ivory, but I've used Moretti white, and lots of the Double Helix colors as well. I've had these beads in galleries for more than a year now, and have sold hundreds....no cracks.

Except. The one time that I used Vetrofond light ivory for the slug. Crack-o-rama. Right out of the kiln.

I'll watch this thread, this is interesting. I have every confidence in the use of the copper, though.....I've seen marbles that have been around for decades with huge hunks of copper floating around inside, with no issues.

Katie · #20 2008-07-04, 10:45pm

I wonder if the copper is pure or is it the mesh that is made from brass and just copper coated? Scrapbookers don't need the pure copper so it is possible that Michael's may be the brass coated one. Just a thought.
Katie

Troll Lover · #21 2008-07-04, 11:36pm

Like I said, I'm not sure it's not a thermal crack. I have some hearts with cracks here, I'll make a pic of them to show what my cracks look like.

Troll Lover · #22 2008-07-04, 11:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carmen Isaacs

Thanks, is it nice and clear??

And YES, honestly it's the best I think. A bit stiff, but no bubbles or scum, as clear as Lauscha!

Kevan · #23 2008-07-05, 12:49am

The cracks I have gotten have been all over the clear part. Like compatibility cracks. Like when you encase with Lauscha clear. Some haven't cracked, but the ones with the vetrofond as a "slug" as you call it, Sherry, have. Even though they have been encased in Vetro clear.

I'm using the copper that you get at Michael's , the kind that doesn't unravel.

Alison D · #24 2008-07-05, 5:05am

Maybe it would help if everyone compared annealing temps and times. Do these need hotter or longer than some of us generally anneal at?
I would like to try this technique but all this cracking is making me chicken.

Alison

JavaGirlBT · #25 2008-07-05, 7:55am

I know that Mary Beth says when there's a lot of metal in the bead - she uses silver - you have to have a longer soak and a slower ramp down. Maybe it's that?

Kaye · #26 2008-07-05, 7:57am

CIM and mesh don't seem to work well together.

I made some focals with silver mesh and dichro and had cracks after the fact...so I don't use CIM with mesh of anykind

haven't tried copper cuz I don't have any

but it could be CIM

Troll Lover · #27 2008-07-05, 8:47am

I now used effetre to encase it, it's cooling down in the kiln as we speak. Can't find the hearts that are broken, maybe I've thrown them away already?

beadlvr · #28 2008-07-05, 9:06am

I can't find it now but I came across a description on a website that was talking about copper mesh and fusing and they used 100% copper. Does the copper from Michael's list the copper content? Could this be a factor?

Toni Lutman · #29 2008-07-05, 9:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherry

I just found this thread....I've used many different colors of glass for the encasing, pretty much all of the hand-pulled transparents, in particular the 018 and 049. Clears that I've used have been moretti and vetrofond, I've never tried Lauscha or Diamond, or any of the others.

My usual "slug" glass is Moretti light ivory, but I've used Moretti white, and lots of the Double Helix colors as well. I've had these beads in galleries for more than a year now, and have sold hundreds....no cracks.

Except. The one time that I used Vetrofond light ivory for the slug. Crack-o-rama. Right out of the kiln.

I'll watch this thread, this is interesting. I have every confidence in the use of the copper, though.....I've seen marbles that have been around for decades with huge hunks of copper floating around inside, with no issues.

I haven't tried this technique yet, but I just wanted to mention that I've talked to several people recently that had compatibility problems when encasing Vetrofond light ivory. They even had issues when a thinner line of transparent was placed over the Vetro light ivory. I don't know if it's ALL Vetro light ivory, or if there was a batch with issues.

MaryBeth · #30 2008-07-05, 10:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JavaGirlBT

I know that Mary Beth says when there's a lot of metal in the bead - she uses silver - you have to have a longer soak and a slower ramp down. Maybe it's that?

Thanks, Ellen

I was thinking of coming in her and mentioning this. I know some have had success with lower temps and a longer soak for some things but I would not do that if you are doing metal inclusions.

I soak at 980 for at least an hour after I make the last bead and ramp down at about 1 degree per minute until I reach 700 degrees then I let the kiln cool naturally.

When I first started almost six years ago I was using silver foil with Bullseye and Effetre (not both glasses together!) and I was getting cracking. It doesn't look like a thermal crack.

The solution was the change in my annealing schedule. It immediately resolved my problems. I changed nothing else. And my controller is accurate -I had a relay replaced and the calibration checked about a year ago by Arrowsprings.

I have put some fairly large metal inclusions in my beads and have not had cracking. This includes things like silver cut outs made from silver clay that have been prefired then put into the bead under a coating of clear. I made these about 8 months ago. These were big chunks of silver. I still have the beads - they didn't crack - I just didn't like the way the silver fumed the clear that I used. Still working on that!

I purchased this tutorial from Sherry. I'll let everyone know my results once I get a chance to try it.