Help Please How can I kiln strike boro

[s38hyler]

Hi, I have barely gotten hot enough to strike boro in the flame and can on the surface to a point, and if it is encased than I can't strike it at all.

I tried what I thought would kiln strike it and brought it up to 1150 but didn't hold it but a minute at that temp. I don't know the melting point of boro so I didn't want to mess up the beads. I am such a newbie to this I guess I really don't know what I am doing. I did burn the haze off or at least it was off before I encased it. LOL Does anyone have a schedule for strikeing that I can try.

Could someone please help me with how to kiln strike I have tried amber purple, double amber purple, blue amber purple, silver beach and silver creek. I can get a little color if it is on the surface but not encased and what I would love to do is get the colors in the encased glass, if there is a way to kiln strike it.
thanks for any help or ideas of what to try

Sandra

[Sue in Maine]

You may find some help in this thread. I just did a quick search, didn't read all the way through but it might help.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...strike+boro%2A

Sue

[kebira]

Kiln striking often takes more than a single cycle to "strike-out". If I'm garaging at 1050 while I'm working, I set a program to take my glass to 960,the strain point,which allows for some initial crystal formation in the glass metals. I hold for an hr, then ramp full to 1150-1175, hold for 20 min,ramp back down 80 deg/hr to 960,hold 1 hr for more crystal growth, ramp back full to 1150-1175(depending on depth,difficulty to strike) and then down at 80 deg/hr to 960,2 hr hold,then head full to 0. I don't torch full time, so the extended kilning is no issue for me. Also, don't hesitate to repeat the kiln strike at another time, just put your glass to be re-struct in a cold kiln and bring to temps.
Try different hold times at striking temps. I've only slumped boro once and that was due to haste in setting a program. 2150 is significantly warmer than 1150. The 6 matched sets of earrings didn't take the heat very well. Not very well at all. Make up some sacrificial marbles, like 3/4 - 1", or just blobs of any silvered glass worked into some clear and make notes of the programs you try. Try 3 diff silvered glass at a time, note which ones get color, then play with your program. Getting glass to strike is like discovering a new color.That's why I also suggest trying to strike some older pieces, you may be impressed with your work.
Good luck

[Cosmo]

I kiln strike my pieces at 1150 for 20 minutes. That's usually fine for colors on the surface, provided you work them correctly in the flame. For a color like Amber/Purple, you have to work it really hot so you burn off all the haze so the glass goes clear, then put it in the kiln. The kiln will strike it from there.

If it's a color that's encased, you may have to strike it several times.

[Bunyip]

I have had very good luck just garaging at 1100 when I want to kiln strike, except with deeply imploded or encased pieces which often need additional time. As Cosmo noted it's important to work the colors correctly.

Getting boro color to do what you want (mostly) takes a bit of practice, hang in there.

[s38hyler]

Thanks all of you I will try all of this at different points, I do have a few duds that I can kiln them to death and it wouldn't matter and would give me an idea of what to shoot for.

I do get some colors on the surface and I did a little more work a little bit ago this evening and I tried silver creek, amber purple and blue amber purple and got more colors or at least it looked like it, I really got color where I cooked it to death on the dots. I know I don't have enough O2, I have got 2 concentrators but only one hooked up right now I don't have a Y connection to hook them together, hubby tried to make one out of parts at the hardware store but it turned out to be a T, the stronger concentrator feeds back to te weaker one, They are suppose to be the same size but I guess one of them, is a lot older and weaker. My father said that I need a valve to put in the line so it won't feed back to the concentrator I will have to check on that. I tried to talk my father out of his O2 tank he welds, he said no, I told him that my torch and I might come to visit one day. I would love to see what I could do with tanked O2 on the bigger torch that I can't run yet.

On the good ones(beads) I don't want to mess up but just get some better colors, I will take it up to 1150 for 20 mins and see what it does. If I do have some color will it just go to a lighter shade. I am getting better at burning the haze off and get a lot more out of the silver creek tonight or it looked like it. I am really falling in love with boro and how it feels, I like the stiffness and my son likes it too because I am not popping it all over the place like my 104 coe.

Oh one more question can I make more beads as I am kiln strikeing the other beads, what I mean is if I happen to get one with decent colors while I am working what will happen to the colors, I have been getting better at burning off the haze and the ones I really cooked look the best.
thanks for the help everyone, (I am half asleep so I hope I made sense, LOL)
Sandra
I do have some that are deep encased and the amber purple is in the middle of, I was trying the vertabra beads, I struck it before I encased it and when I encased it the color went away. So I bet that I will have to anneal these a couple times so I am just going to throw them in each time until I get them where I want them. LOL

[Cosmo]

The purity of oxygen is an issue too. Concentrators don't put out oxygen as pure as tanks, so you need to run a flame that looks a little more oxidizing to get a true neutral flame.

[Bunyip]

You should connect the two concentrators regardless - you get more oxy and I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be an issue. Don't take my word for it though - post a question about it in the torch forum. Someone will surely have a good answer for you there!

That said, I was working Boro on one oxycon on a minor no problem once I learned to tune my flame like Chad mentioned... and if you're a soft glass worker don't be scared to move in closer to the face of the torch! That took me a while to get used to.

[divelement]

What is worst that will happen if you strike the whole batch but only a few pieces need to be struck? I guess I am asking will I hurt the other items I made? especially worried if I try to multi strike in the kiln which sounds cool. Or best to normal annel the batch and just strike what i want struck?

[Jamn!]

Sandra
Make sure your duds don't have haze covering the color or you can strike forever and won't get any color.

[s38hyler]

Originally Posted by Cosmo

The purity of oxygen is an issue too. Concentrators don't put out oxygen as pure as tanks, so you need to run a flame that looks a little more oxidizing to get a true neutral flame.

Now if I could just win the lottery I would be buying a tank quick LOL I would love to have tanked air, just can't afford it, and I can't talk my dad into sharing his welding O2 he lives 150 miles from me. I told him that I was coming for a visit and bringing my torch LOL
Sandra

[s38hyler]

Originally Posted by Bunyip

You should connect the two concentrators regardless - you get more oxy and I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be an issue. Don't take my word for it though - post a question about it in the torch forum. Someone will surely have a good answer for you there!

That said, I was working Boro on one oxycon on a minor no problem once I learned to tune my flame like Chad mentioned... and if you're a soft glass worker don't be scared to move in closer to the face of the torch! That took me a while to get used to.

We hooked them together one of them makes the other one beep, hubby put together some fittings and tryed to make a Y connection but it turned out to be a T and that didn't work. LOL I told him it needed to look like a Y, I don't know that it matters or not wheither it is a Y or a T shape, but the T shape doesn't work. LOL

My father who welds said that I need a valve in each line coming from each concentrator so it won't feed back to the concentrator. I am crossing fingers that Hubby can find them.

I am on a minor right now, I know what you mean about getting close to the face that is no problem for me LOL I bet yesterday I had it a couple mm from the face of the torch, I heard it whisle a couple times so I think I was a little too close, but I did get good colors that way. On soft I work too close to because I tend to get into a hurry to melt. At least with boro I am not popping off pieces everywhere. LOL

I bought a used wildcat a little while ago, and I would love to get it running, I am just afraid I am going to need a tank for it. I don't know how much O2 I need for it so it is waiting, maybe if I can get the 2 concentrators to work together without one shutting the other off and making it beep, I could run that torch and do boro and get more colors, hopefully one day.

Yes I tried making my flame with more O2 and I see what you all mean, I get more colors.
thanks,
Sandra

[s38hyler]

Originally Posted by Jamn!

Sandra
Make sure your duds don't have haze covering the color or you can strike forever and won't get any color.

The first one has haze on it LOL but I learned what haze looks like and managed to burn it off of the next ones or at least think I did.

What I am seeing when I put say amber purple on it will look milky sort of and I melt it in an you can see it going clear looking it looks like a little dot that spreads out to clear, I have rolled some in clear frit and burned it off again, then I encased but couldn't get it to strike after the encasement, but on the surface I can get it to strike now. LOL I have been bitten by the boro bug, I wish the concentrator fairy would come and fix my concentrators so I can run them together.
thanks,
Sandra

[Bunyip]

Sorry to hear about that - but as I said, there are some concentrator gurus on these boards but they seem to hang out more in the torch room - check that out maybe someone can help you without you having to spend a lot of money.

[Jamn!]

Sandra
If you are using one concentrator you might not be getting the haze off. I didn't get good color from any of the AP's until I got tanked oxy.
If you are determined to use the APs then you can try a base color that is more forgiving and then use dots or stringer of your silver colors. Blue moon would be a good base because it gets that gorgeous cloudy white color and then maybe some dots of another color.
Pipyr has a good tutorial about using concentrators with boro!

I started with one concentrator and had really good results with Silver Beach!! Actually I like the color I get with Silver Beach on a concentrator better than the tanked oxy! Do you have any of that color?

[Mr. Smiley]

Get the glass hotter than you think you should and keep it there for a little bit... let cool below glow and toss in a kiln at 1075... APs will strike out every time to beautiful pinks and purples. Ask me how I know?

oh and I'm running concentrators too. You have to set up the color correctly before you try to strike it. Most people do not get it molten enough for the silver oxides to arrange themselves in the matrix. The purity of a concentrator that's running right is just fine... volume is more important, because a lot of folks just don't have enough to power their torch...

I'm not knocking anybodies up and down or way hot striking schedules... if it works for them, then coolio. I just like a more simple and repeatable outcome.

[s38hyler]

Hubby somehow got the concentrator to work together by putting the T connection he made by hooking it up in more of a wonky Y LOL they will run together now. thank goodness, he tried it out while I was at work to make sure that the concentrators wouldn't beep and they didn't, I got home to try it and turned it on and just as I was going to make a bead it ran out of Propaine, I knew I was low on it but didn't know I was empty LOL

I have tried Sliver beach and one wasn't so good but the second one WOW the colors are nice. I like that glass.

Brent I see what you mean the ones that I am getting more color on are the ones I am cooking to death, If I had gotten moretti that hot it would have fried and fell off the rod onto the table. I did get 2 of my boro colors to boil (pink and red), and I didn't know it would do that in boro. I have gotten some of the last ones I made with better color so hot they are glowing white and looked almost like they were going to melt off the rod. It starts out milky looking than you can see the haze burning off like the only way I can describe it is like ice/snow melting and then looking like clear water, then I thought maybe I haven't gotten it hot enough and then I cooked it a little more and it was glowing to the point I thought maybe I went to far and I did get colors a really dark blue and a dark purple, I was using blue amber purple and dark amber purple. When I get more propaine I will try to cook it to death some more and see if I get any better, I didn't even get to try it with 2 concentrators, but hope to get some propaine tomorrow or Friday,
Can I ask what color your heart is in your avatar, I love those colors.

Thanks to everyone for all your help in this
Sandra

[Jamn!]

Sandra If the one Silver Beach wasn't so good because it looks sort of browny and dark thats because IMO it looks best with a little bit of haze on it!

[Mr. Smiley]

It's Amber Purple over white... encase white with your silver colors to make them siiiing!

[s38hyler]

Jamn, I got silver beach to look wonderful over pomagranet sp? the first one I guess I didn't cook long enough

Brent Thanks I will try the amber purple over white when my finger heals I don't know how I did it but got distracted during a thunder storm and burnt my index finger bad 2nd degree and middle finger not so bad in it but bad enough,
Sandra

[Coffeebean]

Originally Posted by kebira

Kiln striking often takes more than a single cycle to "strike-out". If I'm garaging at 1050 while I'm working, I set a program to take my glass to 960,the strain point,which allows for some initial crystal formation in the glass metals. I hold for an hr, then ramp full to 1150-1175, hold for 20 min,ramp back down 80 deg/hr to 960,hold 1 hr for more crystal growth, ramp back full to 1150-1175(depending on depth,difficulty to strike) and then down at 80 deg/hr to 960,2 hr hold,then head full to 0. I don't torch full time, so the extended kilning is no issue for me. Also, don't hesitate to repeat the kiln strike at another time, just put your glass to be re-struct in a cold kiln and bring to temps.
Try different hold times at striking temps. I've only slumped boro once and that was due to haste in setting a program. 2150 is significantly warmer than 1150. The 6 matched sets of earrings didn't take the heat very well. Not very well at all. Make up some sacrificial marbles, like 3/4 - 1", or just blobs of any silvered glass worked into some clear and make notes of the programs you try. Try 3 diff silvered glass at a time, note which ones get color, then play with your program. Getting glass to strike is like discovering a new color.That's why I also suggest trying to strike some older pieces, you may be impressed with your work.
Good luck

I'm sure this is a stupid question, but...so you go from 960 straight up to 1150 and back down to 960 - without holding at the annealing temp of 1050 at all?

[Coffeebean]

well i certainly know how to kill a thread

[ginkgoglass]

I was wondering the same thing Coffeebean. I ran my annealing schedule yesterday with a striking segment then annealed. Now I want more color. If I put it back in at 1125 for 30 minutes for example, do I need to anneal at 1050 again?

[s38hyler]

I wonder that too, I think you would have to anneal it again also otherwise it would be like you had took it from the torch and put it in vermiculite if you didn't hold at 1050, I know when I did it to mine, I re-struck and then went down to 1050 and held there. I figured if I didn't I would wind up with cracking beads. But, I am pretty new to this yet so hopefully someone with more exprience will answer this for us.

[Bunyip]

I'd suggest running a straight annealing program as part of striking cycles. It might not be strictly necessary, but it would stink to have something crack because you cooled it too fast, especially if you've run multiple strikes to get the color you want.