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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2007-09-30, 8:20am
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Default Tonbo Dama "pleat" bead

I tried making several of the pleat beads yesterday, using the instructions from the Tonbo-Dama book (pg 40).

What came out of my kiln this morning were very pretty striped beads - not a pleat in sight. One thing in the book that I wasn't completely clear about - is the center of the paddle white or clear? I used white, with dark turq and pea green as the "rounding" parts.

So, some of you make BEAUTIFUL pleated beads...help? Suggestions? I just love that look, so give it up, please! LOL
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  #2  
Old 2007-09-30, 9:39am
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Do you have any pictures.
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  #3  
Old 2007-09-30, 10:43am
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I just tried one myself. The lolipop I believe is white with trans on both sides. Mine did not turn out so good either so I made my cane again. I think the first one I did not twist tight enough. The last one I twisted alot tighter. Also, I made sure the trans really went to the very edge to cover most of the white. I wasn't sure if the edges were supose to be covered or not. If you look at the picture of the cane, there is no white showing. I'm going to try another one with the new cane and see what happens.
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  #4  
Old 2007-09-30, 11:57am
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Are you hoping for a 3D surface pleat? Or, just a colored pattern? Because, the pleat pattern is just a colored pattern.

As Cynthia said, you need a pretty tight twist on your cane. And, if you look at the top of page 41, you need to 'spread' the cane all the way to the edges of your bead.

HTH

Malcolm
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  #5  
Old 2007-09-30, 11:58am
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Ah, yes, I see what you mean in the picture! I tried another one today, it's in the kiln, and it looked a *bit* more pleated going in but still not really...LOL I'll try with another cane, too - it will be tomorrow before I can get pix most likely, but will post the tries then. Also, I did use opaques, glad to hear you're trying with transparents.
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  #6  
Old 2007-09-30, 12:11pm
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Also, like Cynthia said, your cane needs to have the two transparent colors come all the way to the edge of the cane. You shouldn't see any of the white at the edge. I think that it's the transparent colors that give you the pleated look that you're looking for.

Malcolm
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  #7  
Old 2007-09-30, 12:49pm
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Thanks, Malcolm. Yes, I want that really 3-D look. Just took a little break from the torch - off to try that now. It's tough when there's only the weekend to torch!
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  #8  
Old 2007-09-30, 1:27pm
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WOW! That worked, and how! If the bead hadn't been quite so big, I would have just let out of the kiln and attached a photo.

I made a paddle out of white (just like if I was making a ribbbon cane), covered one side in dark amethyst and the other side in dark amber. I mounded them up, just like in the book, but made sure all the white on the edges was covered (my initial paddle was pretty thin). Heated, pulled out into a fairly tight twist; I gave a little additional twist as I applied to the bead. I did NOT have to manipulate the twistie after it was on the donut bead (like the book suggests), just melted slowly. Encased with clear. And now I have this totally 3-D pleated bead! Yippee!
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  #9  
Old 2007-09-30, 1:35pm
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i wanna see it !
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  #10  
Old 2007-09-30, 5:27pm
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Several months ago, I got this book and tried the "pleated" technique. I didn't have trouble understanding how to spread the design.

What I had trouble with was finding colors that stay strong enough when they are spread out. Sorry, I don't remember what blue or green transparent I used but I did wonder if the Satake is a more dense glass color-wise. Some time after that, I bought some Satake and tried it out. I never tried the 'pleated' style with the Satake though.

Anyway, I'd recommend that you chose some of the more dense transparents if you use Effetre....try cobalt and dk amethyst maybe.

J
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  #11  
Old 2007-09-30, 5:43pm
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I don't make this type of beads and haven't tried one either, but I'm wondering whether it is easier if you wrap clear while the bead is still a disk, then shape it rounder. Why lengthen first and then wrap clear? Is there any merit in doing it this way? Or is it just as easy to to do it this way as the way I described? I'm just thinking aloud.
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  #12  
Old 2007-09-30, 6:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emiko View Post
I don't make this type of beads and haven't tried one either, but I'm wondering whether it is easier if you wrap clear while the bead is still a disk, then shape it rounder. Why lengthen first and then wrap clear? Is there any merit in doing it this way? Or is it just as easy to to do it this way as the way I described? I'm just thinking aloud.
As I see it, it is important to get the twisted stringer spread all the way to the edges of the bead, otherwise the 'pleats' will only be in a band in the center of the bead. I think it is easier to continue to spread the twisted stringer once the bead has been shaped.

If you put your clear on while the bead is still a disk, I think you'll run the risk of not being able to spread the stringer all the way to the edges.

Malcolm
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  #13  
Old 2007-09-30, 8:14pm
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Quote:
If you put your clear on while the bead is still a disk, I think you'll run the risk of not being able to spread the stringer all the way to the edges.
I beg to differ. The way I described is the way the most tutorials of how to make this type of beads show. Some of them may show rounding the base slightly than a disk before encasing, but none of them show to elongate the base bead to the final length before encasing, I don't think. What you are talking happens if the twisty is narrower than the base disk and clear is a small amount.
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  #14  
Old 2007-10-01, 10:37am
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I think maybe I can help with this one. I always had trouble with striped beads - the stripes wouldn't spread all the way to the bead's holes, and if they DID, then I always had ugly "bloom" at the holes where it wasn't covered up by the clear. Then I took a class with Dustin Tabor - the trick, apparently, is to not let the clear (as you're applying it) touch ANY of the bead except what you want to spread. So, for stripe beads, you can even start with dots around the perimeter, then add clear just to those - the dots then spread into stripes. Then if the clear doesn't spread all the way to the holes, you add clear to clear - not clear to the part that's still uncovered. So, before taking the class, if those areas next to the holes were uncovered, I'd try to dab or wrap clear kind of on the dividing line between what was already encased and what still needed to be encased - understand? In making the pleated bead, I kept it a disk shape until after I'd added the clear - I just made sure to add clear only to the twistie, then kept the heat concentrated on the clear wrap, which spread the twistie to the holes. I will try to remember to take a picture tonight and post tomorrow - when I cleaned the bead this morning, I was again amazed at how well it turned out.
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  #15  
Old 2007-10-01, 10:40am
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That is a great explaination. Thanks for posting it and I would love to see your bead. I am going to have a go at it today. We'll see what happens!
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  #16  
Old 2007-10-02, 6:45am
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Here it is. I used amethyst for the base; the twists are dark transparent amethyst and dark transparent topaz.

And look at those pleats! All the way to the holes! Woo hoo!
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  #17  
Old 2007-10-02, 7:02am
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Oh that's perfect. Wow, it turned out just perfect. Ok, I didn't get a chance yesterday to try but today fer sure! I'm going to copy your directions too.
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  #18  
Old 2007-10-02, 9:05am
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That turned out perfect! Great job!
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  #19  
Old 2007-10-02, 10:03am
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WOW!!! That's a great bead! I've allways wondered how it was done. Now I know - Thanks!

Ann
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  #20  
Old 2007-10-02, 12:38pm
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That's a wonderful bead! So, it sounds like you did what Emiko also suggested - where you add the clear prior to melting the disc down.

I wondered about this myself. I have the book and it seemed odd that they melted the twistie down first then applied the clear. But I think the technique in the book might be more suited to Satake because it is so soft. I have the DVD and it looks like when they apply clear glass they just spread it around like butter.

Wrapping the clear on the disc makes much more sense for the type of glass we typically use.
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  #21  
Old 2007-10-02, 10:33pm
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also keep in mind that they manipulated the glass with flattening tools, like our beloved butter knives...remember when you first tried to fix a wonky bead with marvering and the pattern moved more than you wanted? marvering the twisty ( perpendicular to the pattern, that is around the diameter), can cause the outer most edges of the twisty to fold a bit. It's an interesting change.
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Old 2007-10-03, 5:44am
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It is really different working with satake. The glass gets "patted" into shape, mostly because the difference between "nicely flowing" and "a puddle on the table" is about 2 seconds!
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Old 2007-10-03, 6:54am
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Well, I'll be taking a class from Akihiro Ohkama, using Satake and a Japanese torch, in November (from Heritage Glass). I have NO doubt that glass will be melting into the torch - I hope Molly has counted on that! I'll check back in to let y'all know how it went. And, thanks for the compliments on the bead - all I have to do now is do it AGAIN!
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Old 2007-10-03, 7:10am
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Oh, I'm so jealous! When you go to your class, would you PALEASE come and teach me? I'll give you lots of wine and chocolate. I am still trying to get my KR-3 going good with the help of Malcolm at Artco, he's great. I have all of my Satake ready to go. I needed a larger air pump for the torch so it seems to be running fine now. All I need now is a Tonbodama teacher. I guess that would be my book. Oh well, that's how I learned everything about lampwork in the first place so I guess I can do it again. It's just so much nicer to have someone to watch.
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Last edited by glassactcc; 2007-10-03 at 7:16am.
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Old 2007-10-03, 7:38am
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Cynthia, where are you? You are welcome to come to my place and play.
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Old 2007-10-03, 7:44am
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Yellow Dog Girl- Wow you did an awesome job on your bead and I'd like to see more pics when you try it again!
I am a bit confused though as to how you did it.
Did you melt the twistie in first then encase or did you encase like you do a stripe bead?
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Old 2007-10-03, 8:04am
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Quote:
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Cynthia, where are you? You are welcome to come to my place and play.
Hi Jo. I'm in Santa Rosa Ca. I think I'm a bit too far but I would love to. Do you make any type of Tonbodama style beads? The book seems to be pretty easy to follow. I think we should have a Tonbodama show and tell class right here. Everyone who has the book can make a bead from it and we can compare and show. Yellow Dog Girl already has a head start. Her bead is stunning and now I am motivated.
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Old 2007-10-03, 10:44am
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I do a lot of cane pulling. Here is one of my florals...
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Old 2007-10-03, 10:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Dog Girl View Post
Well, I'll be taking a class from Akihiro Ohkama, using Satake and a Japanese torch, in November (from Heritage Glass). I have NO doubt that glass will be melting into the torch - I hope Molly has counted on that! I'll check back in to let y'all know how it went. And, thanks for the compliments on the bead - all I have to do now is do it AGAIN!
Don't worry, it won't hurt the torch Unlike oxy/fuel torches, the glass won't stick or flow down inside. Just flick it off the top of the torch.

Malcolm
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Old 2007-10-03, 1:25pm
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I am *most* glad to know that! I was thinking that if it was like a "you break it and you buy it" scenario, I'd be (more than) broke!
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