yucky clear glass

jamie lynne · #1 2009-05-08, 11:35am

so here is what happened... and to not drag names into this discussion i will just refer to them as my glass vendor.

a month ago i ordered 15 mm moretti glass rod. what i received was 10 mm rod, not a huge difference i guess, but i'm used to working with 15mm for my pendants and marbles, the 10mm just gets too floppy. i let the vendor know that i had received the wrong diameter glass, and they offered to send out the correct size... and they did... but they sent me CRAP clear (at least 2nd quality if not 3) it is 15mm but once it hits the heat it bubbles and scums up so bad, i can't make anything with it. i'm kinda ticked, and i'm not certain that it was on purpose, but i can't imagine anyone that knows what they are doing, picking up those rods, that were bent, twisted and bubbly (i know they didn't know they would scum up, that is hard to tell until they hit the heat), and sending them off to a customer. i just don't think that is good business practice.

i know it isn't yucky propane, the rest of my 5-6mm clear is still very clear.

so long story short i still need to purchase 15mm clear glass, i would just prefer to not order from them again. any suggestions?

mikefrantz · #2 2009-05-08, 12:25pm

The first suggestion is to learn how to use clear glass. Ok, now that I have your attention and maybe even irritated some of you I would like to explain my position, First and most important is that from time to time there is bad glass, sometimes it is scratched and sometimes there are to many bubbles.

For years I have been told each time I go to Murano that it is not the glass but the person or the torch they are using.

I have been told my some artists in Murano that there is nothing wrong with Effetre clear and others tell me that clear is just SICK!

A then again I was talking to some American bead makers and some Italian beadmakers and I get all kinds of information.

Well the makers say that the glass is good
Some Americans say that they heat the end and pull the tip of the rod and remove the glass from it.

Some of the Americans in Murano tell me that they work the glass very hot and have no problems while they tell me that working hot is not possible with a Hot Head.

I have had some beadmakers tell me that the problem comes when you work too fast and others tell me the problems happen when you work to slow.

We have had customers return clear saying it is the worst and when we tested it, we found no problems, and other times the glass was scratched.

I have had some Italian beadmakers say that there is little clear casing done on Murano so clear is not an issue.

I have had Murano beadmakers tell me that it is not the beadmakers fault or the glass, but rather the torch.

So perhaps it is time to write an artical, book or a DVD entitled "Coping with Clear Glass:.

So it could be the torch, the glass, the beadmaker

Mike is in Murano

Mike Frantz

jamie lynne · #3 2009-05-08, 12:51pm

i would normally agree with you, i have gotten bad batches before from a different vendor- so point taken- i have also torched the hell out of glass and made it bubble because it was my fault- i think everyone has- but when i can use what was left from a previous batch of 15mm and have 0 problems, then with out changing the torch atmosphere, application or work time, put a piece form this batch in and have it go brown and bubbly the instant it starts to soften i know it is the glass and not the torch/user/propane. i made a pendant today that got all gross with one of the new rods, and then made one using a short of the previous batch with out a problem. i DONT think they knew it was going to scum- so for that i can not fault them- BUT is was pretty obvious that what they sent out was not first quality rod, with the bends twists and bubbles and we are talkin i couldnt even lay it down to cut it down to size because the bends were so severe.
(no i didn't purchase this icky glass from frantz)

pam · #4 2009-05-08, 1:01pm

Hi Jamie Lynne, Just curiously, have you tried adjusting your oxy/gas ratio to remedy the brown yuck? I'm not saying that it would help, just asking, as at times when working certain glass I do adjust my flame to add more oxy to keep a certain glass from sooting up.

And not knowing this supplier, and not saying anything about anyone, but did the supplier request that you return the 10mm glass that they sent you by mistake? If not, could they have sent you seconds (or thirds) to help balance the cost to them? I'm not saying that this was right or fair, but just perhaps a rationalizing of why you got this glass.

jamie lynne · #5 2009-05-08, 1:30pm

yep i have tried every flame known to man from oxidizing, neutral, to even reducing, to see if maybe that wasn't the trick to that particular batch of glass... reducing it made it even worse obviously but i did it to be sure.

and yes i told them that once i received the 15mm that i would ship the 10mm back at my own cost, which i felt was pretty generous of me cause it wasn't my fault in the least, but when i received that wonky looking 15mm stuff i decided that i would hold on to the 10mm until i knew that the cosmetic uglyness of the 15mm was the only problem it had, twisted rods doesn't always mean bad icky glass. i kinda feel bad, but i kept the 10mm after i discovered that the 15mm was of such poor quality.

lbloomer · #6 2009-05-08, 1:40pm

Jamie, just wondering why you haven't contacted the supplier to let them know how inferior what they sent you is? Getting inferior glass is certainly aggrevating, but maybe not personal. I think the first thing I would do is again contact the supplier and tell them that what they sent still isn't acceptable to you, and see what they would be willing to do for you. Just thinkin' here...
Jaquetta

pam · #7 2009-05-08, 1:58pm

Well, Jamie Lynne, it certainly seems you have covered all the bases. I'm sorry for your problems with this glass.

jamie lynne · #8 2009-05-08, 2:00pm

honestly, i hate being "that customer", and i'm afraid of what they might send me this time! LOL. i don't like to raise a fuss, which is why i'm just gonna eat the money that it cost for that clear, and move on to a different vendor, who hopefull didn't get the same batch! lol. i don't think it was personal.

PaulaD · #9 2009-05-08, 2:01pm

Jamie, If it is truely crummy you should really send it back. It may be that your supplier just had new help that day that didn't know what a second was. But whatever the reason if you are not happy return it! I think that most of the suppliers here take retuns...Paula

jamie lynne · #10 2009-05-08, 2:17pm

i already cut it down... do you think they would still take it back?

beadbroad · #11 2009-05-08, 3:11pm

I certainly think a phone call is in order.

nicholebeth · #12 2009-05-08, 3:43pm

I've gotten batches of Vetro and Effetre clear that I just can't use, so I stick with the Precision Diamond clear. I'm not sure if I'm incorrectly using these particular batches or if the batches themselves are just bad. I buy the batches after reading raving reviews here on LE (i.e. "super" clear just isn't that super for me, but I'm glad that others love it), but most of the time they end up getting stored in a cabinet and I have to spend more $$ on the expensive stuff that melts like butter for me!

jamie lynne · #13 2009-05-08, 3:45pm

do they make dc in 15mm? i'll try anything once! i've heard good things about it.

Olimpia · #14 2009-05-08, 4:15pm

I don't think so, it's hand pulled and it comes in different diameters but not sure you can try to get ONLY 15mm.

There are off batches, whatever off is, by no means I think you can eliminate any of the clears forever. You can wait a couple of months and try it again. ALL the clears I've tried have had wonderful batches and terrible batches. Some more than others...

I still love Diamond Clear, even though I got an "off" batch. Scummy and bubbly, but I'll wait a bit and order again. Aether is by far the most wonderful glass, so far... but it's still considered a test glass. You can sometimes find it at the Double Helix site, they don't have any now.

I love showing this picture because this is Effetre Super Clear... worked very cool while applying then heat all you want.

This is Aether... need I say more...

jamie lynne · #15 2009-05-08, 4:22pm

thanks for the info.

mikefrantz · #16 2009-05-08, 4:23pm

I am in Murano as I send you this email and I have been dealing with Effetre since 1982. The way you describe the glass it does not sound like Effetre, they do not sell seconds. I would lopve to see a close up picture of those rods. They may have gotten all scratched, they may have lots of air bubbles in them, but they should have been straight rods as ion the twenty-five years I have been buying it I have never seen a rod that was not straight. To be curved like that would mean that it was hand pulled. Of course if it were slightly not straight, that could be possible, but again never seen it before.

I guess just stop buying it from that vendor is the question, but if for some reason you really want top get tpo the bottom of your bad glass and not mention names, you can send me a pm and give me the details, but in the meantime it is 1:20am in Murano and it is time to go sleep. I like a good mystery and this seems like one.

Sweet dreams to me.

mike frantz in murano

jamie lynne · #17 2009-05-08, 4:39pm

mike, thanks for offering your help. the rods have already been cut down into 12 in. sections so the curves and bends are not very noticeable. the bends don't even bug me, i can work with bent glass, it is the scumming that is buggin me. but anyway here is a picture of my clear glass, it is on just plain old copy paper, sorry i didn't have time to set up my normal picture setup.

the pervious batch is on the left.. yes i can keep clear glass CLEAR. lol. and the nasty junk is on the right.

jamie lynne · #18 2009-05-08, 4:44pm

WOW that aether is to good to be true! too bad i don't have that kind of $$ to spend on that type of glass! but wow! next time i have money to blow that will be on my list of things to buy for sure!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olimpia

I don't think so, it's hand pulled and it comes in different diameters but not sure you can try to get ONLY 15mm.

There are off batches, whatever off is, by no means I think you can eliminate any of the clears forever. You can wait a couple of months and try it again. ALL the clears I've tried have had wonderful batches and terrible batches. Some more than others...

I still love Diamond Clear, even though I got an "off" batch. Scummy and bubbly, but I'll wait a bit and order again. Aether is by far the most wonderful glass, so far... but it's still considered a test glass. You can sometimes find it at the Double Helix site, they don't have any now.

I love showing this picture because this is Effetre Super Clear... worked very cool while applying then heat all you want.

This is Aether... need I say more...

Renee · #19 2009-05-08, 10:36pm

Wow, Jamie Lynne, that is some nasty looking clear!

jamie lynne · #20 2009-05-09, 5:49am

it sure is! and i have 5 pounds of it,YEAH! lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renee

Wow, Jamie Lynne, that is some nasty looking clear!

PaulaD · #21 2009-05-09, 8:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamie lynne

i already cut it down... do you think they would still take it back?

I think that it does not hurt to ask. I would guess that your vendor would rather have you return it than blab all over the board about how bad it is!

Paula typing from Murano....

PaulaD · #22 2009-05-09, 8:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamie lynne

do they make dc in 15mm? i'll try anything once! i've heard good things about it.

I have Lauscha clear on the way to the states in that size. Should be here early June...Paula

beadbroad · #23 2009-05-09, 8:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulaD

I think that it does not hurt to ask. I would guess that your vendor would rather have you return it than blab all over the board about how bad it is!

Paula typing from Murano....

Right, so the rest of us can buy it?

PaulaD · #24 2009-05-09, 8:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamie lynne

mike, thanks for offering your help. the rods have already been cut down into 12 in. sections so the curves and bends are not very noticeable. the bends don't even bug me, i can work with bent glass, it is the scumming that is buggin me. but anyway here is a picture of my clear glass, it is on just plain old copy paper, sorry i didn't have time to set up my normal picture setup.

the pervious batch is on the left.. yes i can keep clear glass CLEAR. lol. and the nasty junk is on the right.

This looks like just too much fuel in your mix...Paula

PaulaD · #25 2009-05-09, 8:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by beadbroad

Right, so the rest of us can buy it?

Look I have no idea who the vendor is BUT the vendors that advertise here are reputable and don't send out junk on purpose. Not that I know of anyway!! If you know of one please speak up.
Paula

jamie lynne · #26 2009-05-09, 9:05am

yes i agree, that IS what is looks like. but both of those ends were melted one right after the other... one crystal clear one nasty and brown. if i didn't have my other atch to compare it to i would just assume it was me, but i do have some of the other batch available, and it is just fine. they were both melted in a neutral. i know you have been at this longer than i have, but this is truely bad glass

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulaD

This looks like just too much fuel in your mix...Paula

jamie lynne · #27 2009-05-09, 9:11am

that is why i didn't put the vendor name down... i don't want to drag their name thru the mud... that is not my intent at all. i have bought too much nice glass from these people. and like i said before, i know they didn't know it was going to scum. i honestly know that. and the reason i did cut it down was to use it, i didn't care if it was bent twisted and bubbly, i kinda like bubbles, i just cant make anything with it if it is going to get scummy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulaD

Look I have no idea who the vendor is BUT the vendors that advertise here are reputable and don't send out junk on purpose. Not that I know of anyway!! If you know of one please speak up.
Paula

pam · #28 2009-05-09, 9:27am

You know, Jamie, I don't blame you at all for asking, and it does appear that you have a bad batch of clear from somewhere, someone, whatever. That doesn't matter to me. But if you can melt one glass rod and then immediately the other and there is that much difference, and you have tried up'ing the oxy, then this is a bad glass. Sorry, all you importers, but this is bad glass! My guess is that it is not Italian glass, but that is just a guess. The glass I have seen do this the most visibly was a furnace glass that was not made for torchwork. My thought at that time was that there was too much lead in the glass, but I don't know that to be a fact.

If I were you, I would definitely contact the vendor, because very likely they do not realize the problem and if you don't let them know, then they will be selling this glass to other lampworkers. You've got the 10mm rod and the 15mm rod, such as it is, so I would just make it an informative phone call to let them know. They may want to test it on their own.

jamie lynne · #29 2009-05-09, 9:51am

thanks pam, ya know now that you mention it, i guess it may not be moretti, my original order was for moretti (the 15mm that came 10mm) but when this stuff arrived it wasn't labeled at all just packed and shipped.. i guess saying it was moretti was an assumption (based on my first order) on my part. but you make a good point... maybe it isn't the real deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pam

You know, Jamie, I don't blame you at all for asking, and it does appear that you have a bad batch of clear from somewhere, someone, whatever. That doesn't matter to me. But if you can melt one glass rod and then immediately the other and there is that much difference, and you have tried up'ing the oxy, then this is a bad glass. Sorry, all you importers, but this is bad glass! My guess is that it is not Italian glass, but that is just a guess. The glass I have seen do this the most visibly was a furnace glass that was not made for torchwork. My thought at that time was that there was too much lead in the glass, but I don't know that to be a fact.

If I were you, I would definitely contact the vendor, because very likely they do not realize the problem and if you don't let them know, then they will be selling this glass to other lampworkers. You've got the 10mm rod and the 15mm rod, such as it is, so I would just make it an informative phone call to let them know. They may want to test it on their own.

PaulaD · #30 2009-05-09, 1:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pam

You know, Jamie, I don't blame you at all for asking, and it does appear that you have a bad batch of clear from somewhere, someone, whatever. That doesn't matter to me. But if you can melt one glass rod and then immediately the other and there is that much difference, and you have tried up'ing the oxy, then this is a bad glass. Sorry, all you importers, but this is bad glass! My guess is that it is not Italian glass, but that is just a guess. The glass I have seen do this the most visibly was a furnace glass that was not made for torchwork. My thought at that time was that there was too much lead in the glass, but I don't know that to be a fact.

If I were you, I would definitely contact the vendor, because very likely they do not realize the problem and if you don't let them know, then they will be selling this glass to other lampworkers. You've got the 10mm rod and the 15mm rod, such as it is, so I would just make it an informative phone call to let them know. They may want to test it on their own.

Just for the record I don't import Effetre glass...And I agree that she should contact the vendor who ever that is!!
Paula