How Much Breakage is Too Much?

[PolychromeBeads]

I ordered from a very reputable supplier, one I've been ordering from for probably 8-9 years. Usually there is NO breakage in ANY of my glass rods, very rarely there might be one or two rods on the outside of a bundle that have broken in half.

On the other hand, I've lately had problems with other shipments from all sorts of places arriving in poor condition from UPS. So I think I know who's at fault here.

The thing is, my shipment arrived today - and my Dalai Lama, Luna 2, and Ekho were all broken - the Luna 2 is totally shattered! If it were cheap glass, I'd probably just shrug it off - but I just can't do that at $80 a pound!!

I know I'm going to have to ship it all back, which is going to cost me. Which is my dilemma - eating the return shipping on a pound of glass, or just using the "bits" I have...?

Aimee

[squid]

You shouldn't have to pay to ship it back - it's not your fault it was broken. I would contact the vendor and see what they offer to do.

[menty666]

Most vendors make good, give 'em a call

[mikefrantz]

Originally Posted by PolychromeBeads

I ordered from a very reputable supplier, one I've been ordering from for probably 8-9 years. Usually there is NO breakage in ANY of my glass rods, very rarely there might be one or two rods on the outside of a bundle that have broken in half.

On the other hand, I've lately had problems with other shipments from all sorts of places arriving in poor condition from UPS. So I think I know who's at fault here.

The thing is, my shipment arrived today - and my Dalai Lama, Luna 2, and Ekho were all broken - the Luna 2 is totally shattered! If it were cheap glass, I'd probably just shrug it off - but I just can't do that at $80 a pound!!

I know I'm going to have to ship it all back, which is going to cost me. Which is my dilemma - eating the return shipping on a pound of glass, or just using the "bits" I have...?

Aimee

I have a number of suggestions and they are based on how we handle broken glass at Frantz Art Glass. No glass should arrive broken, but sometimes it does and each customer has to decide on how bad it is and how bad they need the glass right then. Yea, a broken rod here a shattered rod there, it is going to happen and the more glass you buy the larger the chance that some will get broken.....but

When you purchase expensive glass, you really want it in full length, not little pieces.

Look at the usable glass and decide how much is trash, how much is still great and how many smaller pieces are you now dealing with and come up with an idea of what you now would like to pay for what you ended up with.

If you have a scale, you can weigh the glass and tell them how much you ordered and how much is unusable and what the usable glass looks like. If you do not have a scale then just telling the vendor how many rods you have and how long each rod is.

If you think it was a UPS problem or a packing problem, let the vendor know.

Once the vendor knows how much loss there is, they can do the math and decide if the vendor wants the glass back, wants to put in a claim with UPS or negotiate a deal with the customer for them to keep the glass and offer them some compensation that makes them come away from a bad experience of broken glass and turn it into even a better sweet deal.

Remember, be prepared to give the person on the phone all the information, just saying you got broken glass is not enough. Providing alot of information allows those who can fix the problem the tools to do so.

I wish you luck.

Mike Frantz

Mikey

[tammydownunder]

Excellent solution Mike. When I order glass, I expect it to arrive intact. I've paid too much in shipping to have it broken and I'm not about to pay for shipping it back or extra shipping for the replacement. Please, vendors, make sure it is wrapped well so the gorillas working for the various postal services will not be able to turn it into frit. Do not just wrap rods in plastic wrap and toss them into a flat pack. That might work when you are shipping 100 miles but overseas, needs to have extra packing material and candy.

[PolychromeBeads]

Thanks for all the info!

I was planning on making that phone call in the morning, it was too late this afternoon. This is the first time it has ever happened to me - so I was kind of wondering what to expect!


Aimee

[Paul Ewing]

I have to say Mike's packing is great. We almost never have breakage despite the boxes arriving looking like #$%@. I do wish they were a bit heavier weight boxes especially with the 30 t o40 pound shipments, but so far there has been little problem and they have worked out very satisfactory resolutions when we did have some breakage.

My last shipment of boro from ABR was also extremely well packed. Not only were the bundles done in plastic wrap (Almost a necessity for good shipping) but the then they enclosed everything in spray foam to totally prevent shifting. This was good and restored my faith in ordering from them after having over a pound and a half of breakage in several colors in the previous peanut filled shipment from them.

[LaurieBSmith]

The only time I ever got broken glass, it was replaced at the expense of the vendor. BUT...the breakage was due to truly awful packaging....the glass was all but loose in the box.

AND...I didn't get my replacement glass until after I seriously complained and got the run-around. This person/s actually said they didn't have my address....and then, when it was shipped I got a really nasty email. But, they got one back, so that's not a problem. Of course, I don't buy from them any more and will happily share their name via PM to anyone who needs it.

But, I'd expect the vendor to replace it if it was poorly packaged.

[PolychromeBeads]

Here's my update - I wanted to make sure and let everyone know that Frantz is a terrific vendor!!

I called this afternoon (threw my back out last night and spent this morning icing it - ow!!!), and told them I had no problem with the Dalai or Ekho (which only had 2 rods each broken in half, a very minor issue) - but the entire bundle of Luna was broken in half. They are sending out a replacement; I don't have to bother sending the broken stuff back.

I made a big deal of pointing out how I didn't think it was their packaging, which has always been great. I am sure the problem is with UPS. They must be hiring gorillas lately, 'cause everything that arrives via UPS looks like it got pretty kicked around.

A big thumbs up for Frantz!


Aimee

[divelement]

I have said it before, Thats why they have oops writen on the side of their vans.

Frantz and ABR have always provided me great protection inside of a crushed by UPS shipping box. No free glass for me. So far all my candy has arived safe and sound. Heard there were issues with some folks candy once in awhile

[Elegance_1]

Originally Posted by PolychromeBeads

Here's my update - I wanted to make sure and let everyone know that Frantz is a terrific vendor!!

I called this afternoon (threw my back out last night and spent this morning icing it - ow!!!), and told them I had no problem with the Dalai or Ekho (which only had 2 rods each broken in half, a very minor issue) - but the entire bundle of Luna was broken in half. They are sending out a replacement; I don't have to bother sending the broken stuff back.

I made a big deal of pointing out how I didn't think it was their packaging, which has always been great. I am sure the problem is with UPS. They must be hiring gorillas lately, 'cause everything that arrives via UPS looks like it got pretty kicked around.

A big thumbs up for Frantz!


Aimee

I have a good friend who is a Post Office Manager. She says *never* write FRAGILE on the boxes that are. It's just a magnet for bored workers to see how much abuse they can do to a box. I've taken boxes to be weighed and just as I leave their counter, they THREW my box into the bins! I went back and said "didn't I just tell you it was fragile?" They just look at me with this blank stare. Gesh!

[SunDoorBeads]

Hi there I know this has been solved so no comment there and yes FRANTZ is amazing they have the best customer service out there!!!!! However this is my two cents worth on who to ship with- I know sometimes it's an extra call to ask but shipping priority with the USPS has been my new way to go- first you get your glass twice as fast and it arrives in pristine condition!!! Sometimes though it is not an option that shows up on the shipping in the carts so you might have to call the vendor and ask if they could ship it that way it can also be a few extra $'s but it is worth it to get the glass faster and in better condition- the theory behind this?- most people's post offices get to know what kind of mail you receive and really do treat it better than "oops" which only deliever packages when you order something not on a daily basis. My uncle has been working for the USPS for 30 years and he says although in the back there is the occasional disgruntaled employee they usually are 50 times more careful with your mail/packages than the other guys. Okay that was just my little piece of advice. I am glad this all worked out for you!!! Have fun torching!!!!

[bousky]

Glass can be packaged well so breakage is at a very minimum. It should have been packed well enough to with stand some abuse. Abuse of packages will happen. If the packaging was at fault, loosely wrapped, without enough space around the glass, I think the sender is at fault and should replace the broken, unusable glass.

If it was packed well and the package shows abuse/damage, then UPS is at fault. I do think all UPS packages are insured....or is that FedEx? If the company you bought from believes in customer service they should send you replacement glass, then deal with the shipping company.

You purchased in good faith, you should have the product you paid for without you having to expend too much effort for that to happen! You should not have any extra expenses either. I believe in customer service!

[coyotesfamily]

Originally Posted by bousky

Glass can be packaged well so breakage is at a very minimum. It should have been packed well enough to with stand some abuse. Abuse of packages will happen. If the packaging was at fault, loosely wrapped, without enough space around the glass, I think the sender is at fault and should replace the broken, unusable glass.

If it was packed well and the package shows abuse/damage, then UPS is at fault. I do think all UPS packages are insured....or is that FedEx? If the company you bought from believes in customer service they should send you replacement glass, then deal with the shipping company.

You purchased in good faith, you should have the product you paid for without you having to expend too much effort for that to happen! You should not have any extra expenses either. I believe in customer service!

the first $100 value is always insured after that you have to pay for more so depends on whether the vendor paid for more...but both are pretty easy to get claims out of...but the person/account shipping the package needs to file the claim, not the person who receives it.

[polka dottie]

in all the years i have been ordering glass, i have NEVER received it in any way but perfect condition...never even one broken rod. it always amazes me to receive it in such pristine condition. i have been fortunate. i have never received any glass that is not clean and ready to go into the flame. the vendors on LE are exceptional in my experience. in my dealings, frantz goes beyond exceptional in customer service and quality....kath

[Glow Joe]

Originally Posted by Elegance_1

I have a good friend who is a Post Office Manager. She says *never* write FRAGILE on the boxes that are. It's just a magnet for bored workers to see how much abuse they can do to a box. I've taken boxes to be weighed and just as I leave their counter, they THREW my box into the bins! I went back and said "didn't I just tell you it was fragile?" They just look at me with this blank stare. Gesh!

My local post lady told me that "Fragile" pronounced frageellaa is actually Italian for "kick to final destination".......that and "Glass" just don't go on my packages......

[bousky]

I missed it the first time that Frantz already took care of the problem perfectly! In all the years I have been around glass, I have never heard anything negative about Frantz. I also admire their participation on the boards.

I like well run companies!

[tmmopar73]

i sold antiques on ebay for years.ups is a killer of packages.when something was to big for usps i would pay the $60 fee for the larger box rather then send with ups.my hubbie built a crate for an antique industrial leather sewing machine head.it arrived with the stiching arm sticking out side the wooden crate and three boxes it was packed in.


send usps only if you value it.
my opinion only sorry to vent
frantz has always packed things very well for me also
tammy

[PolychromeBeads]

Well, I thought this was over with. However, I called Frantz because I never received the replacement glass. I was told that the rep I talked to should not have offered to send out a replacement because it wasn't their policy to do so unless they receive the broken glass back. Apparently there is no policy about informing customers either.

I pointed out (again) that I wasn't happy paying full price for what was basically 1/4 lb. of shorts, and that if they wouldn't replace it a discount would be appreciated.

Had to wait 'til the next day for a reply, and was offered either 30% off or free shipping on my next order.

I'm not unhappy with the final outcome or that Frantz isn't going to replace the glass - I understand the economics of the situation. I am peeved that I was strung along for 2 weeks thinking it had been resolved. The customer service side of this isn't the best, but I guess I am just not a big enough customer.


Aimee

[squid]

Originally Posted by PolychromeBeads

Well, I thought this was over with. However, I called Frantz because I never received the replacement glass. I was told that the rep I talked to should not have offered to send out a replacement because it wasn't their policy to do so unless they receive the broken glass back. Apparently there is no policy about informing customers either.

I pointed out (again) that I wasn't happy paying full price for what was basically 1/4 lb. of shorts, and that if they wouldn't replace it a discount would be appreciated.

Had to wait 'til the next day for a reply, and was offered either 30% off or free shipping on my next order.

I'm not unhappy with the final outcome or that Frantz isn't going to replace the glass - I understand the economics of the situation. I am peeved that I was strung along for 2 weeks thinking it had been resolved. The customer service side of this isn't the best, but I guess I am just not a big enough customer.


Aimee

That is ridiculous and complete BS.

[PolychromeBeads]

Originally Posted by squid

That is ridiculous and complete BS.

Ummm...what I said or what they said? Shoot - I'm feeling a little self-conscious here!


Aimee

[squid]

Originally Posted by PolychromeBeads

Ummm...what I said or what they said? Shoot - I'm feeling a little self-conscious here!


Aimee

No! Them! You don't TELL someone you are replacing the glass and then not. I don't give a shit if the person didn't have the authority - once they said it, you are obligated to follow through (within reason of course).

I would do a chargeback on my credit card.

[VickieLee]

Take photo's of all the glass in the full order you placed, showing the good and the broken glass. Send the photo in email to the vendor, and let them actually SEE what you have been talking about. Then the rest is up to the vendor to decide if they want to issue a call tag for the broken glass to be returned, or call that part a wash. But the actual broken glass, or the money should be replaced or refunded. For all intense purposes, you actually didn't receive the glass, certainly not what you ordered. (rods vs pieces) For $80. a pound I would do a chargeback, and the photos are your documentation.
Vickie

[Elizabeth Beads]

If the Luna 2 rods are broken into two pieces ("the entire bundle of Luna was broken in half") and not frit ("the Luna 2 is totally shattered"), I'll buy it from you for what you paid for it (1/4 lb. right?).

[demcc2]

Most (if not all) of the vendors I have used DO NOT use UPS for shipping. I personally prefer that they don't as well!

Way back when while I was just beginning lampworking I ordered my rods from Delphi What on earth was I thinking??! Not that I had a problem with how Delphi packaged their product, its how UPS handles ANY package! Trust me...I worked
3rd shift at a UPS distribution Ctr while I was in college. Things haven't changed much with them since then either. So, in short, it usually is not the vendor, but the carrier (UPS more than likely)

Duane
PS. If it ups good luck with getting the claim taken care of!

[GlassyEyedGirl]

Why can't a claim be filed with UPS? I have seen the packaging done by Frantz and it is always adequate IMHO.

I just bought some glass from an individual and it arrived CRUSHED. USPS promptly sent me a check for the purchase price, and didn't even ask for the broken glass, so I get to buy more glass AND I have a lifetime supply of cranberry frit to boot.

Just seems like UPS should be the ones to make it right... Do they handle claims differently than the USPS?

[PolychromeBeads]

Elizabeth, I admit I indulged in hyperbole when I said "totally shattered". It amazed me when I saw that the whole bundle had been broken in half - it must have been struck sharply at that point to do it. The total amount of "frit" was probably less than an ounce.

I want to reiterate that the packing from Frantz is great - and the box did not even look damaged. I have no idea what UPS did to whack one side of the large bundle of glass that was buried in stryo peanuts...

I also received a PM from Mike Frantz who is looking into this - thanks Mike! Now that's customer service!!


Aimee

[PolychromeBeads]

I had a lovely telephone conversation with Mike Frantz this afternoon. Everything's fine, and I'm rather sorry I posted this story in the first place.

Apparently they have a bunch of new people at Frantz, and people being moved here and there because of the Bash, so things are a bit hectic. Yeah, I shouldn't have been left out of the loop for so long - but I understand the situation and Mike is willing to bend over backwards to make things right.

We're all happy now, and all it took was good communication!

I just wish I was going to the Bash...


Aimee

[bousky]

I knew that they would take care of you. I figured it was something as you described! I'd like to be going to the Bash as well!

[squid]

oh good. I was surprised that Mike hadn't made it right.