Feeling panic: Please advise

Gham · #1 2010-03-19, 4:59pm

I have spent that past four months researching everything I could find about how to set up a safe studio for my teenage son. Thanks to LE members' help, I have finally completed the studio. However, I feel this sudden sense of panic at the thought of him lighting up the dual fuel torch. (Up to this point he has only been using a HotHead with a Mapp gas canister.) I was hoping that you could look at the pictures and questions that we have and provide feedback, advice, etc. Our questions are:
1. Does it look like we attached the flashback arrestors to the propane tank and oxycon correctly?
2. Is the propane regulator attached correctly?
3. The green and red hose came attached to one another. We had to seperate them a bit to get them on the knobs of the torch. While doing we ended up ripping a little piece of the red hose off (Please see picture). Would you suggest cutting the hose off the torch and putting it back on or is that just surface damage and nothing to worry about?
4. We wanted to secure the hose to the bench. After doing so, I started wondering if it was o.k. to have it twisted. It started out with the red hose on top and then as it approaches the bench we twisted it so that the hoses were side by side so that we could secure them to the bench top. Is there a better way to do this so that they stay one on top of the other? Or is is o.k. for them to be like this? (Please see picture)
5. We will be putting the propane tank outside (drilling a hole through the wall), but other than that safety hazard, do you see anything else about the studio that concerns you?
Any advice, feedback, etc. would be so very much appreciated. I just desperately want this to be a safe hobby for my son.

Thanks for your help,
Gail in Wisconsin

squid · #2 2010-03-19, 5:09pm

The one thing I would definitely do is get that propane outside - it should not be in the room.

Gham · #3 2010-03-19, 5:25pm

We are going to get the quick connectors and have him disconnect after each torch session and store it outside. Is that o.k? That is what the guy at the studio where we bought the regulator, hose, and flashback arrestors suggested. Please let me know if you don't think that would be a good idea.

Elleth · #4 2010-03-19, 5:26pm

Propane inside is a very bad idea. If you can, drill a hole through the wall under the workbench and run the hose through it to the tank outside. If you cant do that run it out a window, don't keep it inside. Other then that it looks like a nice setup.

Elleth · #5 2010-03-19, 5:28pm

No, if there is a leak, even a small one while he is working it could result in an explosion. KEEP THE PROPANE OUTSIDE!

squid · #6 2010-03-19, 5:32pm

I agree - it needs to be outside. If you do run it through the wall, you need to have it run through a hard pipe in the wall - not just a hose through a hole.

Also, on the flashback arrestors, I have heard it is better protection if you put them on the torch end of the hoses - it will stop the flashback sooner.

Dale M. · #7 2010-03-19, 5:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gham

We are going to get the quick connectors and have him disconnect after each torch session and store it outside. Is that o.k? That is what the guy at the studio where we bought the regulator, hose, and flashback arrestors suggested.......... (snip).....

No..... Propane tank has to be outside. The fellow from studio where you bought regulators and hoses from is wrong....

IF you want to bring propane in from outside, it has to be in metallic piping and not exceed a pressure of 10 psi...

Other than propane issue it looks pretty good.........

Dale

Elleth · #8 2010-03-19, 5:40pm

Consider what happened to me...
I was working in my studio and started to smell propane, I immediately shut the torch off and went outside to check my tank . I had just had the tank filled and the kid at the gas station over filled it and the relief valve was doing it's job by letting the extra gas off, but if the tank had been in my studio it could have been tragic! Now I only use a propane dealer to fill my tank and would NEVER keep it in the studio.

Gham · #9 2010-03-19, 5:56pm

Thank you. The propane is definitely going outside. Thanks so much! That is what I had originally planned for but then I decided against based on his suggestion. It will most definitely go outside. Thanks!

Elleth · #10 2010-03-19, 6:01pm

Quote:

I just desperately want this to be a safe hobby for my son.

I just wanted to add...what a great mom you are doing this for your son, he's a lucky kid!

Torched Art · #11 2010-03-19, 6:04pm

Aside from the addressed propane issue, what a lucky kid. The setup is beautiful. I love the ventilation, and all the counter space. How nice to have such supportive parents.

Has he been reading up on books, watching videos, and taken at least one beginners class? This all helps.

Good job!

Elleth · #12 2010-03-19, 6:16pm

Also,keep a spray bottle filled with soapy water near the workspace and check the connections periodically for leaks. A fire extinguisher is also a good idea to have nearby.

Gham · #13 2010-03-19, 6:17pm

Yes, he has been reading everything he can get his hands on, watching You-Tube, and has attended two flameworking sessions at the studio that is about an hour and 15 minutes from our home. We thought that this was just going to be a "passing phase", but it is turning into a passion (I would venture to say that it is almost an obsession.) I just want him to be safe, so I too have been reading everything that I can on that aspect of lampworking. His Glasshive kiln arrived today (That is going to go on the left side of the bench-the side that has the fireproof board going up the wall and separate outlet.) Now once we figure out how to use the propane regulator and the oxycon, then he will be all set to go. This is all so confusing. I feel like a fish out of water.

Elleth · #14 2010-03-19, 6:29pm

If it makes you feel any better this is how I had my mega minor set-up before I built my studio. I use to open the front door, roll the cart into the living room and met glass. I was terrified the first time I fired it up, I wont tell you what my husband went through

Fortunately for him I only did this for a few weeks before I moved into the studio.

It sounds like you and your son have done the research and should be fine.

So...where is your torch Gail????

PittsGlass · #15 2010-03-19, 6:36pm

Hi Gail,

Zack's studio is looking great. I couldn't read the lettering on the hoses to tell if they are "T" grade or not. That is the one for propane. I also wanted to be sure that the plug for your kiln is on it's own circuit. I see a junction box there, but can't tell if the single and double plugs are wired separately or not. Just remember, this is probably going to cause him less damage than being on a lacrosse or football team. We're happy to help you with your kiln set up anytime your ready.

Gham · #16 2010-03-19, 7:19pm

Thanks Pam, yes we did have a separate circuit just for the kiln. The kiln arrived today, but that will be a whole other adventure. Right now we just need to figure out how to use the oxycon and the propane regulator. I wish that there was a "glass fairy" that would just magically show us how to do all of this. It is so confusing trying to read about it and figure it all out. We'll keep trudging through it. My husband is out in the studio right now trying to get the flashback arrestors off so that we can put the propane tank outside. He is going to go to Madison tomorrow to buy the stuff to pipe the propane through the wall. He isn't a particularily "handy" kind of guy, so this will be a stretch for him. I will be soooooooooo happy when this is all set up and Zach can just torch. It has been a looooooooong four month endeavor.

DPete1104 · #17 2010-03-19, 7:50pm

a suggestion for you regarding the fire extinguisher...you need to move it to just inside the door rather than having it on the bench....better to use it from the door so he can get out if the fire gets away from him....

yellowbird · #18 2010-03-19, 7:51pm

A very good book is
James Kervin
More than you ever wanted to know about glass beadmaking

KEW · #19 2010-03-19, 8:37pm

I don't think a flashback arrestor is needed or beneficial for an oxycon. You might want to check with Kimberly (kbinkster) on that. I seem to remember that it inhibits the flow.

Mr. Meker · #20 2010-03-19, 9:37pm

Flashback arrestors are cheap protection for a big investment.

You can put it between the torch and the Y if you have 2 concentrators. That is what I do. (That doesn't apply to you, Gham)

NMLinda · #21 2010-03-20, 3:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowbird

A very good book is
James Kervin
More than you ever wanted to know about glass beadmaking

One of my all-time favorite books - has one of the best safety chapters I've seen published in a lampworking book, and has great info on studio set-up.

Zack is one lucky son to have such a wonderful mother!! His studio is looking great. Looks like you have everything connected correctly. As PittsGlass says, it's very important to use T-grade hose for propane. What you have looks like it, but it's hard to tell in the photo. R-grade hose is often smooth and slightly shiny. Separating the green and red hose is fine. The tiny bits of rubber that might come off when you do that are not a concern. In looking at the picture, I think the little strip that came off near the end where you've attached to the torch is probably fine.

Is the creation station securely screwed to the table-top? The torch looks well attached, but the creation station should also be well-secured.

Big thing to do, after getting the propane tank outside (!!!) is to turn on the two gases and do a leak check of the fittings to make sure you got them all seated and tightened properly. I use diluted dish soap with a squirt bottle and look for bubbles.

Linda

cheng076 · #22 2010-03-22, 9:13am

I fully agree with KEW re the flashback. In some cases the restriction is sufficient to completely stop flow from the concentrator.

NEVER put a fire extinguisher in a spot where you have to move farther from the escape door and or closer to the fire to get to it. Always put it in the safest place... near your escape exit! Fire fighting school 101

Melanie_M · #23 2010-04-15, 7:01pm

The only thing different from my studio set-up is that I covered my torch table with some inexpensive sheet metal from the hardware store. I've seen too many tables scarred, scorched and/or burned by that occasional flying or dropped bit of molten glass.

And don't forget to have a small bowl of water on the torch table to dip tools in and/or to drop that molten piece of glass that is getting away.